Artful Dodger: That is easily answered. Personally I havent seen it. But who is to say it has never been done. That we take that chance.

Mousetrap: A priest was the prime suspect in a bombing during the Northern Ireland war on the IRA side.. but it was covered up to stop "consequences" ... He was moved to the Irish Republic where the Irish police and government were use to covering up for the Catholic church... Such as nuns and priests abusing children.

(V): NI is a prime example of days of yore when kids were throwing fire bombs. Kids can easily be brainwashed if taken from their families.

Mousetrap: And? my innocent child has to be subjected to having a total strangers hands put in areas that I have told them they should always report if someone touches them, because it's wrong?

(Hypothetical of course, as I have no kids.. )

rod03801: well none that you are admitting to ROFLMBO

where were the underwear and shoe bombers from? is anyone suggesting that blacks get profiled? oh that should go over well. there are a huge number of Black muslims in this country and the list is growing..sure.. just profile them and olive complected people...not whites though..cant wait for the outrage over that..good luck with that

Islam is as much a political view as it is a religious view, there
sharia laws are oppressive and aggressive towards those under them, and they want these laws in England and the EU. These Muslims should be watched closely as they basically want you enslaved.

Artful Dodger:

> Some out of guilt, others out of joy.

Joy in what sense? I just gave something to somebody in need, and the joy I feel comes from knowing I did something "good". In essence, the joy comes from knowing that I am a "good" person. Let's say for a moment that I decided that being selfish is better. I turn into a Mr. Scrooge and give nothing away, not even a penny. Then the joy is gone. I am not so good any more.

My sense of ethics tells me that giving is good, and being selfish is bad. Perhaps my posts sounds harsh "launder one's conscience, guilt, etc." Notice that I did not say anything about guilt being good or bad. I merely point out the "psychological" motivation behind giving.

In capitalism the rich are constantly trying to prove how good they are. So much so, that they even sold to people Adam Smith's "invisible hand". The rich are good, really. They even created a job for you. Now you can feed your family thanks to them. So what if they make a profit at your expense? You should still be grateful that the invisible hand has made them so nice to you.

Then somebody points out at the fact that the rich exploit the poor. They pursue monopolies and use their wealth to acquire political power. Suddenly the rich don't look so nice any more. Their image has to be restored and giving to charity buys the best PR around. Now Mr. Scrooge is not some mean callous exploiter, but a nice man, reformed from his selfish ways. Suddenly the eye of the needle got bigger, and Mr. Scrooge actually fits through.

My big criticism of "giving" is that it is politicized. Governments and politicians use aid as a means to leverage political and economic advantage. They will give aid to countries only when it is politically and economically convenient.

I know very well that a lot of people give out of the goodness of their hearts. They do it with kindness and joy. It is those people that remind me that humanity is more than a bunch of selfish, consuming, abusive, bellicose, murdering apes. People that give are the ones that show that humanity can strive for better. That much is true.

Servant: they can't enforce sharia law in the UK. It (as with Jewish courts.. "Beth Din" and Christian courts) has been allowed to deal with some civil matters (marital problems, inheritance, etc) as long as both sides agree to it.... but only as such for arbitration.

British Law is absolute in all criminal cases.

Mousetrap: Aye.. there have been many conflicts in which child soldiers are used by various factions. Seeing a kid carry an AK47 and 'ok' about it and killing.

but then again, we are in the UK not far off from when kids were cheap labour, such as going up chimneys to clean them (many got stuck and died) and other dirty and dangerous jobs where kids made ideal 'staff'... especially as they were cheaper to hire, especially in the era of the industrial revolution.

Servant:

> Islam is as much a political view as it is a religious view

All religions (I am trying hard to think of an exception) have been used as political tools at some point.

The Greeks used religion, as did the Persians, the Romans and even the Mongols. In China the Tang dynasty almost broke apart due to infighting between Buddhists, Taoists and Confucians. So the emperor declared all three as state religions in order to stop the empire from falling apart. In India the Hindus nearly exterminated the Buddhists. The Islam rose, destroyed Buddhism in Afghanistan and Pakistan, went to war over the Holy Land, and built several huge caliphates that were later destroyed by Christianity. Christians went onto exterminate 60 million natives in the Americas, along with their cultures and religions. Then Christians turned on themselves and pitted Catholics against Reformers.

Today we have fundamentalist Islam as a political movement, and people in the Tea Party preaching that "Christian" principles should be enshrined in the constitution. Some Tea party members go so far as to say that the separation of church and state is wrong and invented by "communists". Then we have Al Quaida, the Taliban, radical Zionism, Fundamentalist Christian cults, TV preachers, etc. The fun never ends.

Religion is a tool in the hands of unscrupulous people who want to cement their wealth and power. They abuse people's need for spiritual guidance and use people's religious beliefs as a conduit for political and economic beliefs. Our western society is not immune, as the influence of religion on politicians shows.

rod03801: If the parents agree for them to walk though the scanner, there should be no need for that. But are not some refusing to do so.

What has happend to the hand held scanners over there? Dont they use them any more? They have been using them here for years. No need for touching just use the hand held scanner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2cfOcP606k

Goof or stupidity

All politicians suffer from foot-in-mouth disease. Take a last name, say Clinton. Now add -ism at the end: Clintonism. Now do a search in Google. The search Reaganism, Nixonism, Bushism, Obamaism, Palinism. You will come with hundreds of very amusing bloopers, stupid speeches, misread cues, etc. Sarah Palin made one more this week. Now she is a member of the club!

Artful Dodger:

I know. It is unfair in the sense that the focus is on her, and she did it in Fox News. As with George W. Bush and other previous presidents, the president's gaffes are mostly ignored by the media. As the potential Republican presidential candidate, she will be scrutinized by all those who oppose her (both in the Democrat and Republican parties). Sarah Palin has made a few comments that have put in question her experience in foreign policy. Doubtlessly her oponents will milk this to the extreme. Politics is a dirty game. Her strength as a politician will be shown in her ability to come out of things like this without being brought down by her opponents.

Just as an additional to my last post, the real king of political gaffes was Dan Quayle!

Apparently some blame this on JFK and how he turned his political campaign to one of dirty tricks and unlimited campaign funds.

ROFL....

Artful Dodger: are you now telling me i ROFL'd for nothing........

Artful Dodger: ANOTHER Qantas jet engine failure....747-400 engine failure on take off...Singapore, Heathrow had to be abandoned last night and will take off in about 1/2 hour from Sydney....I wouldn't fly Qantas for all the (T) in china as I said in a post further down the page.

Artful Dodger: all our maintenance is done off-shore.....cheap labour.....and what price is a life....people were more than a little angry ....the plane was taxiing the runway and the passengers could here the engine making all sorts of funny noises....too scary. On the other hand THE A380 took off for London 15 minutes earlier with the CEO of Qantas on board.

Between 1948 and 1957 there were 15 hijackings worldwide, an average of a little more than one per annum. Between 1958 and 1967, this climbed to 48—an annual average of about five. The number grew to 38 in 1968 and 82 in 1969, the largest number in a single year in the history of civil aviation; in January 1969 alone, eight airlines were hijacked to Cuba.[4] During the third 10-year period between 1968 and 1977 there were 414 hijackings, an average of 41 a year.

The Nixon Administration in 1973 ordered the discontinuance by the CIA of the use of hijacking as a covert action weapon against the Castro regime. The Cuban intelligence followed suit. That year, the two countries reached an agreement for the prosecution or return of the hijackers and the aircraft to each other's country. The Taiwanese intelligence also followed the CIA's example-vis-а-vis China.

Korea March 31, 1970: Japan Airlines Flight 351, carrying 131 passengers and 7 crew from Tokyo to Fukuoka, is hijacked by nine members of the Japanese Red Army group. 23 passengers were freed at Fukuoka Airport, mainly children or old aged. 108 passengers and all crew members with Red Army group left Fukuoka, bound for Gimpo Airport, near Seoul. Three days after, Red Army group ask to be flown to North Korean capital Pyongyang, before leaving from Seoul, 103 passenger and crew hostages are freed, and nine Red Army group members surrendered to North Korean authorities.

July 1, 1970: a Cruzeiro do Sul Sud Aviation SE-210 Caravelle VI R registration PP-PDX en route from Rio de Janeiro to São Paulo with 31 occupants was hijacked by 4 persons who demanded the release of political prisoners that were to be taken to Cuba. The aircraft was stormed and hijackers arrested. There were no victims and the hijack lasted less than a day.

September 1970: As part of the Dawson's Field hijackings, PFLP members attempted to hijack four aircraft simultaneously. They succeeded on three and forced the planes to fly to the Jordanian desert, where the hijackers blew up the aircraft after releasing most of the hostages. The final hostages were freed in exchange for seven Palestinian prisoners. The fourth attack on an El Al plane by two people including Leila Khalid was foiled by armed guards aboard.

October 15, 1970: Aeroflot Flight 244 was hijacked from Batumi, Adjar ASSR, Georgian SSR, to Trabzon, Turkey by a Lithuanian national and his son. An air hostess was killed and some other crew were injured in a shootout. The hijackers later received American citizenship.

January 30, 1971: Indian Airlines Fokker F27 on scheduled Srinagar-Jammu flight is hijacked to Lahore by two self-proclaimed Kashmir Separatists. All passengers were released by February 2 and repatriated to India, but the aircraft was blown-up—leading to an India-Pakistan air-travel ban, and suspension of overflight rights until 1976.

Republic of China March, 1971: Philippine Airlines flight was hijacked in March 1971 by six students from the Mindanao State University, opposed to the Marcos government. The plane landed in Guangzhou (Canton) in southern China, and the Chinese authorities let the students stay in the country. The plane was then allowed to fly back to the Philippines. No one was hurt.

May 1971: an IL-14 with 4 staff members and 16 passengers was hijacked by 6 men at the Oradea Airport (Romania), then forced to flew to Budapest (Hungary), then Vienna (Austria). The passengers and the crew were released in Vienna, while the hijackers flew to West Germany.[7]

November 24, 1971: A man who became known as D. B. Cooper hijacked Northwest Orient Airlines Flight 305, a Boeing 727-100 aircraft flying from Portland, OR, to Seattle, WA, received US$200,000 in ransom, and parachuted from the plane. The actual name of the hijacker remains unknown. The hijacker revealed what appeared to be a bomb to a flight attendant and demanded the ransom and parachutes. The flight landed in Seattle, and FBI agents provided the ransom money and parachutes. Cooper then released all passengers and one flight attendant. After refueling, the aircraft took off again and flew toward Reno, NV. Cooper opened the aft stairs and jumped from the plane with a parachute during a heavy rainstorm. The aircraft was forced to land with the aft stairs deployed. The FBI believes Cooper most likely did not survive, but the case remains unsolved.[8][9][10]

January 12, 1972: Braniff Flight 38, a Boeing 727, was hijacked as it departed Houston, Texas bound for Dallas, Texas. The lone armed hijacker, Billy Gene Hurst, Jr., allowed all 94 passengers to deplane after landing at Dallas Love Field but continued to hold the 7 crewmembers hostage, demanding to fly to South America and asking for US $2 million, parachutes, and jungle survival gear, amongst other items. After a 6-hour standoff, the entire crew secretly fled while Hurst was distracted examining the contents of a package delivered by Dallas police. Police officers stormed the craft shortly afterwards and arrested Hurst without serious incident.[11][12]

January 28, 1972: TWA Flight 2, Los Angeles to New York, was hijacked by con man and bank robber Garrett Trapnell while over Chicago. Trapnell demanded $306,800 in cash (to recoup the loss of a recent court case), the release of Angela Davis (as well as that of a friend of his who was also imprisoned), and clemency from President Richard Nixon. The FBI was able to retake the aircraft during a crew switch at Kennedy Airport; Trapnell was shot and wounded, no one else was hurt. Trapnell's hijacking came after a string of domestic incidents and resulted in an overhaul of flight procedures by the Nixon Administration, procedures that remained in place until the September 11, 2001 hijackings.

November 10, 1972: Southern Airways Flight 49, was hijacked by three men and flown to multiple locations in the United States, and one Canadian city. At one point, the hijackers threatened to fly the plane into the nuclear reactor at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory, if their demands for $10 million in cash were not met. While stopped for refueling at McCoy Air Force Base, Orlando, the FBI shot out the plane's tires, prompting the hijackers to force pilot William Haas to take off. The hijacking came to an end when the plane landed on a partially foam-covered runway in Havana, Cuba, and the hijackers were captured after attempting to escape.

(V): well that's interesting information, but it is however, 100% , 37 year old out dated, completely out of context trivia

Vikings: Old. yes, out dated... I disagree. Trivia.. without the previous decades of hijacking the precautions that were in place before 9/11 to stop hijackings have prevented many more groups from hijacking.

I was actually surprised to hear the CIA had used hijacking. I didn't know they went that far in state sponsored terrorism!! But then again that kinda info would have not been available to Joe Public or schools in the West in that era.

(V): apples- Terrorist (muslim) are attempting to blow up American aircraft, TODAY

Oranges-D.B. Cooper hijacked a plane for money 39 YEARS AGO.

Vikings: .. "(muslim)" no.. Al Qaeda.. yes.

Oranges.. there are later dates for Americans of a non Muslim stance using planes for revenge.. like the one in the 90's who decided after being sacked by Fedex to do a kamikaze run on a main office.

I was using that particular era in history to show how many 'states' have used terrorism. Not as a be all and end all list.

Artful Dodger: all I get is something about a missing ballerina :(

Artful Dodger: thanks...that is fascinating...I would love to hear if they recover any remains. And what a way to go....jumping out of a Jet...wow

don't sound like terrorism to me.

Artful Dodger: hmmmmmmm....I better start thinking then ROFLMBO....don't want to be thought not to be thinking....but was there such a word as "terrorist" as it is used today, then? Would he have been called that?

Artful Dodger: OK....so as was said below....apples & oranges.

well.. I see Big Brother (aka 1984) rewriting of history is in place.

one instant blows everything else outta da window. Not the various uses of hijacking by various USA AUTHORITIES... not the various factions in Europe seeking homeland rule or representation.

... curious I read that Bin Laden was protected from arrest by order of various people before 9/11 despite being highly wanted.

.... Would the capture of Bin Laden cause international problems if he was interrogated over the training and support he was given by the CIA to kill Soviet troops, and how they learnt to hijack??

mmmmmmm

When it comes to CIA trained and protected terrorists, nobody beats Cuban-born Luis Posada Carriles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Posada_Carriles

He is wanted in Cuba and Venezuela for bombing an airplane and killing 73 people. He also carried out bombings of hotels and tourist facilities in Cuba in order to disrupt the tourist trade in the island.

His partner in crime and terrorism is Orlando Bosch, another CIA agent who became both a terrorist and criminal who carried out bombings in Cuba as well as against an American airline that wanted to resume flights to Cuba.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_Bosch

Of course, somebody who cimmits an act of terrorism in the name of Western Democracy is a hero. Somebody who does it against Western Democracy is a criminal and a terrorist. Men like Posada Carriles and Bosch have now become an embarrassment and a liability to the American government, even though they were heros during the Cold War. Osama Bin Laden and the Moujahadeen are the smae. Dubious allies during the Cold War, terrorist enemies now.

Übergeek 바둑이: I believe there are recorded instances of Osama Bin Laden thanking America for it's support.. and Pakistan too for helping them kill their Soviet invaders.

It is said.. that a recruitment process went on. To which.. Islamic radicals were "imported" from the rest of the world to the training camps inside Pakistan.

The prince also addressed Russian influence in central Asia, stating that "the United Kingdom, Western Europe (and by extension you Americans, too) were now back in the thick of playing the Great Game. More animated than ever, he stated cockily: 'And this time we aim to win!' "

"The Great Game" originally referred to the 19th century struggle between Britain and Russia for control of central Asia.

The cable continued that Prince Andrew indicated he had little patience for the media interfering in the negotiation of business deals, condemning "these (expletive) journalists, especially from the National Guardian, who poke their noses everywhere."

According to the ambassador's account, the prince also "railed at British anti-corruption investigators, who had had the 'idiocy' of almost scuttling the Al-Yamama deal with Saudi Arabia." That deal was a multibillion-dollar defense contract between BAE Systems and the Saudi government that became the target of a U.K. Serious Fraud Office corruption inquiry.)

Warming to her theme, Ambassador Gfoeller continues: "He then capped this off with a zinger: castigating 'our stupid (sic) British and American governments which plan at best for 10 years whereas people in this part of the world plan for centuries.'"

But she saves perhaps the best for last, referring to Prince Andrew's "unmitigated patriotic fervor."

One British guest at the lunch had noted that despite the might of the American economy, British investment in Kyrgyzstan was of a similar magnitude.

"Snapped the Duke: 'No surprise there. The Americans don't understand geography. Never have. In the U.K., we have the best geography teachers in the world!'"

Democratic or Republican, it doesn't matter when the voting is rigged and controlled by electronic programs

Wow... people in the south of the USA don't like the Democrats.. Like they didn't in the 60's when they swapped from the Dem's to the Repug's.

.. North and South!!

On a more serious note. Documents leaked to Wikileaks reveal concerns Pakistan and the safety of weapons grade nuclear material being sneaked out. Not the stealing of a bomb, but over time enough material to make one.. They cannot say with 100% certainty that all of the 100,000+ people employed are without sympathies to terrorist causes.

.. China, is getting tired of N Korea, and would happily accept a united Korea. As long as it is not another satellite state for the USA.

Well, well,well.....Qantas has confirmed that the A380 problems are a manufacturing problem by Rolls Royce. tut, tut, tut...cheap labour

Fancy that... teething problems!!

2. (S) Soliman led off the New Year's Eve meeting by telling the Codel that the region is at a special, critical juncture. Egypt is America's partner. Sometimes we have our differences. But Egypt will continue to provide the USG with its knowledge and expertise on the critical regional issues, such as Lebanon and Iraq. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict remains the core issue; Soliman contended a peaceful resolution would be a "big blow" to terrorist organizations that use the conflict as a pretext. For this reason, President Mubarak is committed to ending the Israeli-Arab "stalemate."

3. (S) Soliman applauded the Administration's efforts, commenting that Annapolis had given hope and begun a process. The timing is right for progress based on four factors. First, the PA leadership is moderate and willing to negotiate. Second, Hamas is isolated and politically cut off in Gaza. Third, the Israelis are ready for peace; Soliman assessed that the GOI coalition is broad and strong, and larger than Rabin's coalition of the mid-nineties. Fourth, Arab states are ready to see an end to "the struggle."

4. (S) Soliman stressed that Egypt stands ready to help the U.S. effort. The GOE knows both the Palestinians and the Israelis, and knows the obstacles to peace. Soliman recommended two steps be taken. First, both the Israelis and Palestinians must be pressed hard to sign an agreement, which the U.S. and international community could endorse, to be implemented at the proper time. Second, the U.S. should insist that "phase one" of the Roadmap should be completed before the end of 2008.

5. (S) Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Soliman opined that the Palestinian Authority was ready to sign an agreement, but that establishment of a state may take between 1-3 years. While Hamas is isolated politically and unable to stop an Israeli-PA agreement, it remains entrenched in Gaza, and it was unclear to Soliman how long that would last. At one point in the discussion, Soliman seemed to imply Hamas may remain in control of Gaza for more than a year; at another juncture, he told Senator Voinovich that if negotiations proceeded briskly, Hamas may be forced to cede power in Gaza in 3-4 months. The bottom line for Hamas, according to Soliman, is that they must be forced to choose between remaining a resistance movement or joining the political process. They cannot have it both ways, he said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-wikileaks

He's breathtakingly weak, remove him from office before he does more damage.Can you imagine if he was President during the early years of WW2?

We'd all be goose stepping right now, and eating shnitzel

The Col: And just what part of hillary's agenda is any different?

The Col: Sometimes you have to stand up for what you, and the vast number of your citizens believe.This guy is like the wimp who continues to try and reason with the bully who has already landed another punches to close one eye, defend yourself Obama! grow a pair!

http://crooksandliars.com/media/play/wmv/18985/

... The liberal Democrats here are under criticism especially by University students. Many signed (and as such was party policy) that there would be no increases in the maximum yearly fees cap. Yet, the cap set at £3290 is now increasing to a max of £9000.

Today, before two votes are taken.. It's a day of compromise... The whips wearing out shoe leather is a likely scenario.

The Col: If a "vast number" of our citizens agreed with our incompetent president, why did we vote in droves to empty as much as possible, the House of his cronies? The numbers agreeing aren't THAT vast.

rod03801: "Just 26 percent of Americans say they support extending the cuts for all Americans, even those earning above the $250,000 level, which is the GOP proposal"

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20024494-503544.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody


If Obama can't find the will to battle that fight, and concedes outright, he's frankly not doing his job. He rolled over.

The Col: And I'm sure someone else could find a poll with higher numbers and lower numbers too. Fact remains that "vast numbers" do NOT support the recent direction that our federal govt. had been heading.

And yes, Obama is incompetent. He is "rolling over" because he sees it as possibly his only chance to continue torturing our country after 2012. I hope it doesn't work.

rod03801: Do you really think you'd find a major network poll (other than Fox News) with results greatly different?

O'bama was handed a gift, and he blew it spectacularly.The Republicans play hardball, he's way over his head

The Col: Maybe he should get Anonymous on his side!!

The Col: Who did they poll? Nimrods who don't understand economics? And any Fox poll is no worse than any other poll that would be quoted. They are all pretty commonly skewed to show whatever view the poller is hoping to show.

Still can't deny that the recent election certainly showed that "vast numbers" do NOT agree with what the wonderful Libs/Obama have been up to. I suppose this doesn't automatically narrow it down to this specific tax situation as many people aren't able to think enough to realize that it is these people "earning $250,000 and higher" are the ones who create the jobs that everyone needs and if they are taxed even more, the unemployment situation is only going to get worse.