Bernice: Thats why I love you Bernice!

Artful Dodger: I think it's hopeless for the US to think they can effect meaningful change in Afghanistan.

I had thought this was a post by the geek....

my bad, I just wanted to point out why the US liberals even think about changing the way we have done business here in the past 200 + years? Afghan has been around for how long... and you think we are doing something so wrong that we need a radical change?

Artful Dodger: I'm beginning to think Donald Trump has the answer.

An empty crude tanker arrived in Lybia today near one of the rebel strongholds. The tanker can carry up to 1 million barrels of crude oil. The shipping company that owns the tanker is refusing to give details about the shipment. The buyer of the crude is unknown, but it is believed to be UK oil refiners Vitol:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20110405/tot-uk-libya-oil-loading-1c89468.html

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Libyan-rebels-to-resume-oil-exports-through-tanker-1322911.php

The tanker is registered in Liberia, a country notorious for its illegal black market in diamonds and other minerals.

"The rebel-led government said it had concluded a deal with Qatar to market crude oil and had discussed plans with a U.N. envoy to exempt its oil exports from sanctions that have been imposed on Gaddafi entities."

"Jakob Larsen, maritime security officer with BIMCO, the world's largest private shipowners' association, said a tanker had been diverted last month by coalition naval units."

So the heroic NATO allies are already making a profit from oil trading, and helping the rebels make money to buy weapons.

" "The current wording of the U.N. Security Council resolution leaves considerable room for interpretation as to which cargoes are regarded as contraband and can therefore not be discharged legally in Libya," Larsen said."

So the UN resolution is nothing more than a favoritist excuse for attaking Gaddafi, while trading weapons and oil with the rebels.

That might be OK if the rebels had an interest in true democracy in Lybia, but as I mentioned a few posts ago, the rebels have been infiltrated by Al Qaeda's AIQM forces.

In essence NATO is helping the rebels trade oil for weapons, and those weapons will end up in the hands of Al Qaeda's army in North Africa.

Way to go empire, you just shot yourself in the foot!

Bwild:

> I'm beginning to think Donald Trump has the answer.

It is OK as long as Mr. Trump doesn't run the government like he did with his casinos!

... I saw a strange story on the BBC news wewbsite regarding an attack on a painting by a Christian woman. The painting by Paul Gauguin called "Two Tahitian Women" depicts two women's bare breasts.

I thought seeing as the news article did not go into two much detail I'd check out the web for more detail and found this.

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?p=725611

.. at the bottom ...

"The information presented here is Biblically accurate. Opinions concerning the technical difficulties, fitness requirements, safety, and ratings of self-crucifixion, flagellation, stoning, destroying enemies of GOD utterly, without mercy, and other activities inherent in Christianity are subjective and may differ from yours or others' opinions; therefore be warned that you must exercise your own judgment as to the difficulty and your ability to safely protect yourself from the inherent risks and dangers. Do not use the information provided on this site unless you are a True Christian ™ who understands and accepts the risks of participating in these activities. Landover Baptist Church makes reasonable efforts to include accurate and up to date information on this website, errors or omissions sometimes occur, therefore the information contained on here is provided "as is" and without warranties of any kind either expressed or implied. Viewing, reading, or any other use of the information contained within this web site is purely the voluntary will of the viewer or user. You, 'the viewer' or 'user' shall not hold the publisher, owner, authors or other contributors of The Jesus Experience responsible for any incidents related directly or indirectly to the Experience. Landover Baptist Church, et. al., assumes no liability or responsibility for your actions."

(V): That site is obvious very bias. No one mentioned the radio in her head and when you try to register to reply you have to finish off a Bible quotation. What the heck?

"The Donald" has not personally filed chapt 11, though he came close in 1990, but many of his businesses have.Do you want Trump running the "business" of the USA?

the effects of recession left Trump unable to meet loan payments. Trump financed the construction of his third casino, the $1 billion Taj Mahal, primarily with high-interest junk bonds. Although he shored up his businesses with additional loans and postponed interest payments, by 1991 increasing debt brought Trump to business bankruptcy[13] and the brink of personal bankruptcy. Banks and bond holders had lost hundreds of millions of dollars, but opted to restructure his debt to avoid the risk of losing more money in court. The Taj Mahal re-emerged from bankruptcy on October 5, 1991, with Trump ceding 50% ownership in the casino to the original bondholders in exchange for lowered interest rates on the debt and more time to pay it off.[26]

On November 2, 1992, the Trump Plaza Hotel was forced to file a prepackaged Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection plan after being unable to make its debt payments. Under the plan, Trump agreed to give up a 49% stake in the luxury hotel to Citibank and five other lenders. In return Trump would receive more favorable terms on the remaining $550+ million owed to the lenders and retain his position as chief executive, though he would not be paid and would not have a role in day-to-day operations.[27]

By 1994, Trump had eliminated a large portion of his $900 million personal debt[28] and reduced significantly his nearly $3.5 billion in business debt. While he was forced to relinquish the Trump Shuttle (which he had bought in 1989), he managed to retain Trump Tower in New York City and control of his three casinos in Atlantic City. Chase Manhattan Bank, which lent Trump the money to buy the West Side yards, his biggest Manhattan parcel, forced the sale of a parcel to Asian developers. According to former members of the Trump Organization, Trump did not retain any ownership of the site's real estate - the owners merely promised to give him about 30 percent of the profits once the site was completely developed or sold. Until that time, the owners wanted to keep Trump on to do what he did best: build things. They gave him a modest construction fee and a management fee to oversee the development. The new owners also allowed him to put his name on the buildings that eventually rose on the yards because his well-known moniker allowed them to charge a premium for their condos.[29]




In 1995, he combined his casino holdings into the publicly held Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts. Wall Street drove its stock above $35 in 1996, but by 1998 it had fallen into single digits as the company remained profitless and struggled to pay just the interest on its nearly $3 billion in debt. Under such financial pressure, the properties were unable to make the improvements necessary for keeping up with their flashier competitors. Finally, on October 21, 2004, Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts announced a restructuring of its debt.[31] The plan called for Trump's individual ownership to be reduced from 56 percent to 27 percent, with bondholders receiving stock in exchange for surrendering part of the debt. Since then, Trump Hotels has been forced to seek voluntary bankruptcy protection to stay afloat. After the company applied for Chapter 11 Protection in November 2004, Trump relinquished his CEO position but retained a role as Chairman of the Board. In May 2005[32] the company re-emerged from bankruptcy as Trump Entertainment Resorts Holdings

2008 financial crisis

Trump has been caught in the 2008 financial crisis as sales for his Trump International Hotel and Tower in Chicago have been lagging and he failed to pay a $40m loan to Deutsche Bank in December.[35] Arguing that the crisis is an Act of God, he evoked a clause in the contract to not pay the loan and initiated a countersuit asserting his image has been damaged.[35] Deutsche Bank has in turn noted in court that 'Trump is no stranger to overdue debt' and that he has twice previously filed for bankruptcy with respect to his casino operations.[35]

On February 17, 2009 Trump Entertainment Resorts filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy; Trump having stated on February 13 that he would resign from the board.[36] Trump Entertainment Resorts has three properties in Atlantic City

source : wiki

The Col: I don't want that clown.. just another BS artist

The Col: sounds like the perfect politician

Mousetrap: I saw.. It seems such Christians as that site exemplifies have been visiting Uganda. Thanks to the worry of the high levels of HIV/AIDS infection and the moral guidance of USA evangelicals, the already harsh laws on homosexuality (imprisonment as being gay is illegal) were to be strengthened by a Ugandan MP private bill. He put a bill up to make being gay a punishable by death crime.

hiccup

http://www.kcci.com/r/27453689/detail.html

Besides, even during his early 2010 heyday, Fox was unable to generate advertising revenues to match Mr. Beck’s ratings, since no reputable company would sign on to sponsor the guy who accused Mr. Obama of harbouring a “deep-seated hatred for white people.”

Mr. Beck’s ratings plummeted 31 per cent in the first three months of 2011, compared with the same period last year. His audience among viewers in the key 25-to-54-year-old cohort plunged 38 per cent to fewer than 500,000.

Mr. Beck has still been drawing almost two million viewers during his 5 p.m. time slot, which is more than the number who tune in to the four competing cable news channels combined. But Beck diehards tend to be older, while serious political news junkies are returning again to CNN.

For months, reports have been surfacing about a souring of the relationship between Mr. Beck and Fox president Roger Ailes. Notwithstanding its “Fair & Balanced” tagline, the network owned by Australian magnate Rupert Murdoch is an unapologetic champion of the right. But Mr. Beck’s bombastic, and regularly offensive, commentary had become a drag on the Fox brand.

Coalition friendly fire kills 13 rebels in Libya.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/world/9124801/coalition-friendly-fire-kills-13-libyan-rebels/

"A NATO-led air strike killed 13 Libyan rebels, a rebel spokesman said on Saturday, but their leaders called for continued raids on Muammar Gaddafi's forces despite the "regrettable incident.""

As was reported earlier, Al Qaeda has infiltrated the rebel ranks. Is it a coincidence that NATO is bombing the rebels too? The Obama administration has admitted that CIA special forces are on the ground in Libya. If that is the case, they might be passing intelligence about the location of high ranking members of Al Qaeda's AQIM army. It should come as no surprise if we see more of these "friendly fire" incidents.

Artful Dodger: stay out of it and let them kill themselves...it will eventually happen.

Artful Dodger: I saw reasons why yesterday. Flicking through the news channels here I caught a glimpse of Glenn and his way of manipulating data. Same as a Conservative MP on Question Time last night. To quote a figure whilst not giving an accurate representation of what it signifies is a con. On Question Time the MP was called on his loose use of a meaningless yet leading statistics.

As to Glenn in the future, sure those who like his style will keep lining his pocket for a sound bite that makes them feel righteous over their view on America. Feeding conspiracy theories whilst those lining his pocket through 'sponsorship' line their pockets through old out of date cold war rhetorical mumblings.

As for Obama hating white folk... why? I've seen more in the way of hate towards him from white folk, I can understanding having annoyance at such can't you?

No doubt if Beck can't sell his venom through a political 'talk' show he'll turn to religion and slime his way into some church who's willing to use his manipulation as a means to get more donations.

400 advertisers did not like "I think Obama is a racist... deep-seated hatred for white people" and hence boycotted his show.

(V):

It is not the first time Glenn Beck does this. In 2009 Sonia Sotomayor was nominated as the first female Hispanic justice of the Supreme Court. After her nomination Glenn Beck called her a racist after she insinuated that in some cases a Hispanic woman who had the life experience of a Latina might be better equipped to deal with interpretation of the law than a white male who did not have the life experience of a Latina. Glenn Beck went onto call her a racist repeatedly just based on a single comment taken out of context.

Beck has a history of racially motivated remarks. His comments on migrant Mexican workers borders on xenophobia. So does his fear of Moslems, and his hatred of President Obama. Beck has gone so far as to say that Barrack Obama chose his name because it is a deliberately unamerican name that represents the values of his "radical" father. Calling Obama a racist who hates white people is stupid. How quickly Mr. Beck forgets that Mr. Obama's mother is Caucasian. To Mr. Beck anything not remotely resembling his narrow view of "white culture" is unamerican and a threat.

While there are times when Glenn Beck might sound coherent and smart, this time around he put himself forward as somebody prejudiced and ignorant. He has no clue of what he means when he says "white culture". Does he mean German culture? Italian, French, Russian, Romanian, etc.? To him white people and white culture are the American Anglo-saxon right-wing middle class. Anything else is unamerican, and therefore a threat to that narrow view of white culture. In making this comment, as well as several other racially insensitive actions and remarks, he has portrayed himself as a xenophobe. It comes as no surprise that advertisers in and out of the USA have withdrawn their support for his show.

Glenn Beck talking about Obama's response to the oil spill in the gulf of Mexico:

"Now wait a minute. Hang on just a second. That’s James Carville talking about Louisiana. Why does Barack Obama hate black people? Is it the white part of Barack Obama? Once again, Louisiana, let me tell you something. If this was happening in the very white state of…"

In May, 2010, Beck's radio show aired a very insulting series of jokes in which Beck mocks Obama's 11-year-old daughter Malia. In it Beck insinuates that Obama hates black people.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201005280025

The most recent, and the one that cost Beck his job:

“This president, I think, has exposed himself as a guy, over and over and over again, who has a deep-seated hatred for white people or the white culture."

“I’m not saying that he doesn’t like white people, I’m saying he has a problem. He has a - this guy is, I believe, a racist.”

The following day, Beck stood by the remarks: “I think the president is a racist.”

So President Obama hates both Black and White people.

I am no Sigmund Freud, but it seems to me that in attacking the president Glenn Beck is projecting his own hatred. Beck's vitriolic attacks are an effort to mask his own insecurities and racial prejudice.

Artful Dodger: I think[Übergeek 바둑이 has given fine examples of how Beck Manipulates things.

I can find more if you want.. and you know I'll find them.. if you are honest on the subject that is...

Übergeek 바둑이: They did DNA tests on several 'white folk' in the UK as part of an experiment regarding genetic heritage. The people who were tested had all expressed concerns over certain minorities and their influence in the UK.

... Their genetic heritage showed that all of them had genes that proved their family tree including such minorities and as a matter of course all 'white folk' in the UK had some DNA that could be traced back to non white folk genetic heritage.

Artful Dodger: Really.. I have to shut up because you say so!!

Artful Dodger:

> btw, you got that wrong. YOu really should know what you're talking about first before you post about it.
> This was NOT the main thrust of the full context. So try again.

Here is the original from Glenn Beck's website. Note that in his website Glenn Beck edited a sentence out "Is it the white part of Barrack Obama?". Obviously Mr. Beck did not want to appear racist once he had time to think about what he said live in his radio show.

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/41203/

It is clear, Beck said that Obama hates black people. Well, you can justify this on accounts of the Gulf Oil spill, but what about the tasteless jokes at Malia Obama's expense? "Daddy why do you hate black people?" Clearly Mr. Beck thinks Obama is a racist who hates both black and white people.

Well, the point I was tyring to make is that Mr. Beck has been attacking the president for a long time now, grasping at anything he could to discredit the president. In accusing the president of being a racist, Mr. Beck projects his own racial prejudice.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=064rdvK16TQ

Artful Dodger: Perhaps you can explain the context and how you see it rather than just say ..."you still have it wrong"

Artful Dodger: Yes. Many a time I have.. But you never understand...

Must be an ideological black hole or something.

Artful Dodger:

I understand that Mr. Beck is getting at how both Bush presidents were hammered on accounts of the Exxon-Valdez and Hurricaine Katrina, while Barrack IObama was left relatively unscathed by the BP oil spill. However, Mr. Beck does clearly say that the president hates black people, and further repeats it in that joke at Malia Obama's expense. It is all I am getting at. Beck has called the president a racist both against black and white people. He called justice Sotomayor a racist too. There is a pattern there.

Artful Dodger:

Sure, I am wrong, then how do you explain what he did in the radio show when he was mocking Malia Obama's voice?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/28/glenn-beck-attacks-presid_n_593587.html

"Daddy? Why do you hate black people so much?"

Who is missing the point? Me and my "ultra liberal" mind? Like I said before, Glen Beck can sound honest and smart through all of his sarcasm. But when stops thinking about what he says, he shows a side of his thinking that points to his deep seated prejudices. In reality it is not only him. Rush Limbaugh has said some things that make Glenn Beck look tame.

(V): There was a program on Tv the other week about it. The narrator who is gay himself went over to find out what it really was like to be gay in Uganda and everyone he spoke too really hated gays.

Mousetrap: I'm personally inviting any hot women to find out what it's like to be straight in Toronto ...............sorry mouse, couldn't resist

The Col: Sounds like a good series

Artful Dodger:

> Forget the huffingtonpost link for now, we'll come back to that.

Yes, we should forget it because that is the one where Glenn Beck says that Obama hates black people, but then, he was just ridiculing Obama's daughter. I guess it doesn't count in your eyes.

> Here's a clue for you and others who are still not getting it: Beck NEVER said Obama hates black people (in the same way you never said it).

I am sure he never said it, except it is his voice in the radio show. Let's for a moment suppose that I am an idiot and I am failing to get the point. If he did not say it in the post about the BP oil spill, what about the one where he mock's Obama's daughter? You can make excuses for the BP spill post, but how do you excuse the Malia Obama post?

I know you admire Glenn Beck. I think he is a smart man. I disagree with his political views, but it does not mean that he lacks knowledge or merit. I think he just lacks good judgement. In his desire to provoke he puts his foot in his mouth more often than not. Still, he has made enough racially insensitive comments to make me wonder just how far his prejudice extends.

Artful Dodger: I'm sure you've said he's your hero!! ..... after swapping from Bill O'Reilly who was your hero.

Politics (Artful Dodger, 2009-09-25 05:36:06)
Artful Dodger (hide)
show this user posts | show thread | link
Subject: Re:
Pedro Martínez: Glen Beck is my hero.
Reply (box)

Politics (Artful Dodger, 2009-02-11 06:15:53)
The Usurper: I'm not a big fan of Rush. But do like Hannity but don't watch him much. O'Reilly is my hero. My favorite is Glenn Beck. He used to work for CNN.

Mousetrap: They over did the intensity and attitude a bit in that prog. Many of the religious groups are against the attitude and anti gay laws. Yet the hard Conservative element of Christian church's ... .. it seems from further research appears to be a regional thing. Most countries in the region come down hard on gays!!

Mousetrap: It'd beat Real Housewifes!!

(V): Your not kidding Real Housewifes? They should call it Fake Housewifes, everything about them is fake

Mousetrap: I wonder how big the parts shop is for that show??

(V): Do we really want to know?

Artful Dodger: Capitalism.. Conservatism as in the war against Communism.

And btw... "What other religion actually celebrated the 9/11 attacks," ... some Christians celebrated the event and still celebrate the deaths of all the American soldiers who die on foreign soil.

"What other religion has verses in its holy book that remind men of their divine permission to beat their wives and rape their slaves?"

...... The Bible!?! .. in the sense of how some have taken to interperate it's divine message of the man being the head of the household over the ages..... Christians. How long ago is it Women had to fight for the right to vote?

Tuesday: ... and sell books/dvd's justifying they are right via the likes of "True Christians"(tm)...

People sometimes forget that the Old Testament is full of examples of killing, rape and abduction of women. For example:

Judges 21:8-14

8 Then they asked, “Which one of the tribes of Israel failed to assemble before the LORD at Mizpah?” They discovered that no one from Jabesh Gilead had come to the camp for the assembly. 9 For when they counted the people, they found that none of the people of Jabesh Gilead were there.
10 So the assembly sent twelve thousand fighting men with instructions to go to Jabesh Gilead and put to the sword those living there, including the women and children. 11 “This is what you are to do,” they said. “Kill every male and every woman who is not a virgin.” 12 They found among the people living in Jabesh Gilead four hundred young women who had never slept with a man, and they took them to the camp at Shiloh in Canaan.
13 Then the whole assembly sent an offer of peace to the Benjamites at the rock of Rimmon. 14 So the Benjamites returned at that time and were given the women of Jabesh Gilead who had been spared. But there were not enough for all of them.

Thus the Israelites murdered all those men and their wives, then took their virgin daughters who were forcibly married to the Bejaminites. Murder, abduction and in many cases, rape. I doubt those women wilfully consented considering that their families had been murdered.

Numbers 31: 7-20

7 They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.
13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.
15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the LORD in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the LORD’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
19 “Anyone who has killed someone or touched someone who was killed must stay outside the camp seven days. On the third and seventh days you must purify yourselves and your captives. 20 Purify every garment as well as everything made of leather, goat hair or wood.”

Midianite virgins were abducted after the killing of their families. Then the sin was purified by merely "purifying themselves" on the 3rd and 7th days. Now a pattern of murder, abduction and rape is emerging. Obviouly it was culturally acceptable in that era.

Deuteronomy 20:

10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. 15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.

Pillage, plunder, murder, rape, slavery and genocide. These are the laws of war from Deuteronomy.

Deuteronomy 22

These are some of my favorites. If a man accuses his wife of not being a virgin and she is found guilty, she is to be stoned to death:

20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.

Consensual sex between a man and a married woman or a virgin demands the death sentence:

22 If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.

23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

My favorite is this:

28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[c] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

A man can rape a virgin, pay her father and marry her. Thus a woman is forced to marry her rapist and live with him for the rest of her life.

We notice that in essence, fundamentalists are applying laws from the Old Testament literally. This is true among Islamic fundamentalists and Christian fundamentalists alike. Those who interpret scripture literally are bound to read these passages and use them as an excuse for cruelty and brutality.