Artful Dodger: Remember when Canada was invaded by liberals "escaping" the US when Reagan was first elected? I remember reading a story about a farmer finding a bunch of them sleeping in his field. Our press had already done a fine job of scaring the crap out of those folks, so no one was too surprised by this mass exodus.

Iamon lyme: hmmmm, maybe more will leave again! lol

Artful Dodger: I'm so excited for 2 weeks from tonight! It could be an edge of the seat night. However, if momentum keeps up, it could be less stressful than it would have seemed a month ago.

I fear 4 more years of the jerk. I personally don't even think its just incompetence. I don't even think he has our best interests in mind.
But I guess that's a bit controversial.
I honestly feel if he gets 4 more years, it could be the end of our great country as we know it. Or so far down the tubes that it would take a miracle to reverse it.

Heck, maybe even Romney can't fix it. He wasn't MY first choice, that's for sure. Hopefully we can get as many conservatives in the House and Senate as possible to give him an easy road to success.

rod03801: well so far in his life, everything he's touched has turned to gold. I suspect he'll do great things for the US - after he fixes the mess Obama has made. What a terrible experiment he's been!

Artful Dodger: My state is a "swing state"... which is funny because we don't have many electoral votes

rod03801: It's funny how the battle for President really comes down to just a few states. Like I told a friend today, it won't matter who you vote for for President. I'll probably write myself in or maybe donald duck.

Artful Dodger: I guess I always wonder how much of it is because THEY TELL US so many states are "decided". You know?

rod03801: we are pawns!

I would like to know whose brilliant idea it was to blame the Benghazi attack on a youtube video. Was that Obama's idea, or was it someone else who came up with that idea? I wonder who (if anyone) will take "credit" for that one?

By the way, when I said the president was a quick study I meant after the fact. He learns very quickly how bad an idea is after he tries it out, but it appears he still hasn't figured out how to anticipate real world consequences.

Iamon lyme: I think the video was bush's fault.

Artful Dodger: It is bs until the foetus reaches a certain age of development, which is 24 weeks. Before that the brain has no connections to be able to feel pain, nor does the baby have the capability of being concious.

After 24 weeks the baby is in a chemical environment in the uterus, that induces a continuous sleep-like unconsciousness or sedation. But that only applies to late abortions for basically saving the woman's life, or if scans show up serious abnormalities.

That is.. how it is in the UK.

what happens in your mind if by chance you hit a no win situation?

... If the mother has the baby, the mother dies. The only option is an abortion. One will dies either way!!

(V): It's morally wrong to kill an innocent human being.
The unborn are innocent human beings.
It's immoral to kill them.
Abortion kills them.
Therefore, abortion is morally wrong.

Artful Dodger: Avoiding .. .. or dodging!!

So.. you'd let the mum die just to have the kid... One innocent dies, one lives. It's not a perfect world.

"It's morally wrong to kill an innocent human being."

So why no gun control?

(V): I never said I'd let the mom die. That would violate the principle I just laid out. The vast majority of abortions are done for trivial reasons.

Artful Dodger: re: " The vast majority of abortions are done for trivial reasons"

We are so privileged to have an expert on the subject

Artful Dodger: Bush's fault? No, Bush was just the fall guy for someone who came earlier. If you trace it back far enough you will find it was actually FDR's fault... but FDR wasn't acting alone, there were shadowy figures in the background whispering in his ear and telling him what to do.

Artful Dodger: Well then, to save the mother.. an abortion is needed?

Like in most ectopic pregnancies. Except for a small number of cases, it is fatal for the mother to attempt to carry the baby to term. If your law was in place, both mother and baby die. Your morals therefore kills two innocents. Unfortunately, ectopic pregnancies are a fact of life and you cannot dispute how serious the health risks are.

"The vast majority of abortions are done for trivial reasons."

I doubt such a choice is taken as being a trivial matter by those involved.

The Benghazi story is not going away.

The president did know about a planned attack BEFORE it happened. And he received the correct intellegence info about the attack soon AFTER it happened.

Hillary asked the Libyan government permission for fly overs BEFORE it happened. The Libyan leadership knew it was coming, so they gave permission for fly overs and for extra security and any other precautions we needed to take to insure the safety of our people... but OUR president said no.

Both Hillary and Obama knew about a planned attack before it happened, and both of them knew why there was an attack after it happened. Both of them KNEW it did not happen because of a protest over a youtube video. They knew from the start this wasn't true, and now we know this wasn't true... so what are they saying about it now?

According to senior diplomatic sources, the US State Department had credible information 48 hours before mobs charged the consulate in Benghazi, and the embassy in Cairo, that American missions may be targeted, but no warnings were given for diplomats to go on high alert and "lockdown", under which movement is severely restricted.

Mr Stevens had been on a visit to Germany, Austria and Sweden and had just returned to Libya when the Benghazi trip took place with the US embassy's security staff deciding that the trip could be undertaken safely......

.......In the event, the perimeter was breached within 15 minutes of an angry crowd starting to attack it at around 10pm on Tuesday night. There was, according to witnesses, little defence put up by the 30 or more local guards meant to protect the staff. Ali Fetori, a 59-year-old accountant who lives near by, said: "The security people just all ran away and the people in charge were the young men with guns and bombs."

Wissam Buhmeid, the commander of the Tripoli government-sanctioned Libya's Shield Brigade, effectively a police force for Benghazi, maintained that it was anger over the Mohamed video which made the guards abandon their post. "There were definitely people from the security forces who let the attack happen because they were themselves offended by the film; they would absolutely put their loyalty to the Prophet over the consulate. The deaths are all nothing compared to insulting the Prophet."

Mr Stevens, it is believed, was left in the building by the rest of the staff after they failed to find him in dense smoke caused by a blaze which had engulfed the building. He was discovered lying unconscious by local people and taken to a hospital, the Benghazi Medical Centre, where, according to a doctor, Ziad Abu Ziad, he died from smoke inhalation.

When will the press and the Democratic party wake up and smell the coffee? Do they really not know how this can come back to bite them?

Do they have any idea of how they are screwing up any chance of Hillary becoming the nations first woman president in 2016?

I guess not.

The Col: Well you're welcome. Nice of you to notice.

(V): The life of the mother is the only exception I'd make.

And to the baby being killed, I suspect they'd feel the mother's reasons are trivial. What possible reason could a woman have to abort a human being (killing it) other than trivial reasons?

The reasons most frequently cited were that having a child would interfere with a woman’s education, work
or ability to care for dependents (74%); -- this is a trivial reason for killing a human being. Give the child up for adoption. It's a human life for God's sake!

that she could not afford a baby now (73%); -- trivial-this is no reason to kill an innocent human being. And that 73% can find plenty of financial help for pre and postnatal care AND adoption is always an option. We don't kill our children because they are costly.

and that she did not want to be a single mother or was having relationship problems (48%). -- Apparently these women haven't heard of adoption...another trivial selfish reason.

Nearly four in 10 women said they had completed their childbearing, --trivial - it's too late once you're pregnant. Have the baby and give it up for adoption. The alternative is to kill it.

and almost one-third were not ready to have a child. -- then don't have sex duh. Again, adoption. Killing the unborn is NOT the answer for ANY reason except for the life of the mother. And then it's the mother's decision. But aborting your child because you'll miss a year of school? Trivial, shameful, and barbaric.

Iamon lyme: Hillary is such an idiot. She says that the reasons for such attacks are complicated matters and one shouldn't cherry pick at reasons (yeah, like she cherry picked that it was all about a stupid video). What an incompetent fool.

It happened on 9/11 ... of THIS year.

voted yesterday

ketchuplover:

Artful Dodger: The figures show that there are not enough families wanting to adopt now, for every family/parent wishing to adopt there are 2.5 times as many children waiting.. sometimes for years.

The figures also show that children who have a disability are far more unlikely to be adopted.

So in the end, the state is having to pay for foster care for years, and you want to add more into the system.

Many families think about adoption, not many actually go through to actually adopting.

(V): Killing the unborn is not the answer. There is no question about the fact that a human being, innocent of any wrong doing, is being killed simply for the convenience of another. Arguments for abortion run from the simplistic to the complex but in every case, they attempt to justify the killing of a vulnerable, innocent, human being.

Artful Dodger: Regardless... you can't dictate by law if someone can or cannot have an abortion. It's like when being gay was illegal...

... I still remember Rock Hudson being such a macho man in films!!

Artful Dodger: I watched that clip where one abortion survivor talks about it. For someone to understand they were not wanted is difficult enough, but having to live with the knowledge their mother wanted them dead seems almost unimaginable. In situations like that, learning to forgive does more for the one who does the forgiving than for the people being forgiven... but in the long run I believe it works out better for all concerned.

THE HEAVENS—Responding to inflammatory remarks made by Republican Senate candidate Richard Mourdock during a debate Tuesday night, Our Lord God the Almighty Father sought today to distance Himself from both Mourdock and the entire right-wing fundamentalist Christian movement, sources confirmed.

“I want to make one thing absolutely clear: Mr. Mourdock’s comments from last night in no way reflect my position on this or any other issue,” said the Divine Creator, speaking at a press conference this afternoon to address Mourdock’s remarks that rape-induced pregnancies were God’s intent. “And furthermore, I would like to take this opportunity to say definitively that I, God, do not officially sanction or condone the words or actions of anyone involved in the fanatical, conservative Christian faction that Mr. Mourdock represents.”

“Many people hear my name in connection with the Christian Right and start to assume we are aligned in some capacity, and I’m here to say, for the record, that we are not,” God continued. “So let me just be clear: I don’t want women to get raped—not ever. I don’t think their resulting pregnancies are my divine will. And if a woman is raped, then she has the right to get an abortion, period. I do not agree with Mourdock. I do not agree with the Christian Right. End of story.”

The Col: One would wonder if the Christian Right are trying to get an army ready for the end of days and the big battle... ... the one where only they survive and the rest of the world burns in Hades/Sheol/Gehenna.

(V): I do think it is fair to say , other than some theocratic hotbeds , no major countries in the world would allow a party as closely tied , and willfully adhering to religion in their party policy to get anywhere near to control of their country.In Canada you would be dead in the water .Our Conservative party (which I support) would ban abortion if they could , but they know it would never get the required support, so it is a non starter.So they get my support for their fiscal policy, their social policy is held in check by the knowledge they would be finished if they tried to ram it down our throats

To whom it may concern: or anyone with an opinion as to how US citizens should behave, or who we should vote for.


This was a long time ago, but I often came home from work to an upset wife because a few neighbors were giving her a hard time. Apparently they were telling her what we were doing wrong and how we should raise our children. I tried comforting her but that never helped. So finally I told her not to wait until I come home to tell me about it... just tell those clowns to piss off and mind their own business. She didn't want to confront anyone, so then I told her if you saw them walking into your backyard and pissing all over your flowers, what would you do then? Never heard stories about problem neighbors after that.


A few years before that she went ballistic when she saw a young teenager taking a dump on our welcome mat. So I knew there was warrior spirit hiding somewhere in that cute little package.
Yowzaaa!

Iamon lyme: Personally speaking , I would have confronted the " few neighbors" the moment I heard they were giving my wife a hard time , but that's just me

(V): "you can't dictate by law if someone can or cannot have an abortion."

because???

Iamon lyme: Interesting how those who favor abortion don't make the connection vis-a-vis abortion survior and the human being. If a human being can talk about being an abortion survivor, then it's clear that human beings are being killed in abortions.

The Col: Those other neighbors were women, and they obviously didn't want to speak to me. They would quickly leave if they were there when I got home. I saw that behaviour as evidence my wife was not exaggerating or being oversensitive.

Gallantly rushing to their homes to tell them off wouldn't have accomplished anything. They undoubtedly would have lied to my face and claimed I was being a bully. As it turned out there was no need to intervene, because my wife was able to deal with it. And I was proud of her for standing up to them... but I guess that's just me.

By the way, I did get a chance to meet their husbands sometime afterwards. The subject never came up. Either they were unaware of what their wives had been doing, or they didn't care. NIce enough guys, but probably didn't know what was happening on the homefront. I only knew about it because my wife told me.

Artful Dodger: I can't watch actual abortion pictures or clips, it's too disturbing. I clicked on a link you put up showing an abortion but I had to stop watching it. I think for some people if they see that it will drive the point home, but for others it doesn't seem to mean anything. And listening to an actual survivor of abortion would I think make it clear just "what" (or who) it is that is being aborted. But again, for some people it seems to mean nothing.

I thought people who became outraged over animal abuse, but didn't bat an eye over babies being tormented and killed, I used to think they were shameless hypocrites. But now I have a different take on that, because even a hypocrite is able to know the difference between what he says and what he does. Anyone who thinks it's okay to kill babies but is outraged over animal abuse has actually gone a step or two beyond hypocrisy... feeling empathy towards animals but no empathy towards people (especially baby people) borders on the pathological. When I see this kind of disconnect among otherwise normally well ballanced people, I know something has gone terribly wrong in our society. Normal has been re-defined to mean something else... the distinction between normal and seriously abnormal behaviour has become blurred.

Iamon lyme: Most people won't take the time to watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y2KsU_dhwI

Iamon lyme: If no men were involved I would of course let her deal with it herself .People will generally push as far as they feel they have license to though.

The Col: A recent attempt was made by one of our Conservative MP's to change the date rules. It failed. Using religion as a 'standard' can't be done here, there are so many different religions, let alone Christian styles.. it would be a nightmare.

Plus, we are well aware of the danger of 'A God' driven system. Our country's history is laden with examples of what happens when a religious or ideological style goes of the deep end.. never again!! I hope

Artful Dodger: Well, try free will for a start. It seems if a divine creator objected to babies dying... they wouldn't. It seems in the scheme of things... it happens.

That is.. by you and lamons version of how things work.

(V): They aren't just dying, they are being killed.

Artful Dodger: Doesn't make any difference.

There are instances of God killing Children in the OT.

(V): So now you are saying God is on your side in the war against babies... and free will is evidence He approves your cause?

I don't think you need God's permission or help with this, because babies put up very little resistance. Babies can't fight back... well, not enough for it to become a problem for you. Some of them have survived the ongoing holocaust, but their numbers are very small and you are still the victors in this battle. So pat yourselves on the back and praise one another for victories in an ongoing battle against the enemy.

You know who your enemy is, but they are very small and defenseless, so you will undoubtedly win and the god of your war will reward you with hundreds of virgins.
FYI, not all of them will be pretty, and not all of them will be female.. so prepare yourself for a few surprises when you get there.

Iamon lyme: No.

btw... Hell, it's a myth. A German word used by lazy translators, not at all present in the original texts.

anyway.. I beat up the devil years ago. Lordi made a song about it!!