(V): You still don't get it, but that's understandable. You didn't live here and were probably too young even if you did to understand the significance of this.

I am aware of how liberals used Watergate to blundgeon the right for years afterward and claim the high ground. I should know, because at that time I was a member of the Democratic Tabernacle Choir, singing the praises of the left and pointing to Watergate as an example of Republican corruption. The Democrats lost that high ground a long time ago, but the left siding hardliners haven't figured that out yet... some of them are still fighting the war in Vietnam. It wasn't that long ago that someone here accused Republicans of sending teenagers off to war, even though the draft ended in 1973 and the only party responsible for sending young men and women to war for the past 4+ years are the Democrats.

I'm only telling you this so that ignorance cannot be used as an excuse when you go about the business of focusing all of your critical attention on conservatives.

I'm not saying it's fair, but folks will often judge the people you're with by the company they keep.

Iamon lyme: Well that's American politics... we avoided alot of that except for history lessons until Maggie started employing such tactics.

"because at that time I was a member of the Democratic Tabernacle Choir, singing the praises of the left and pointing to Watergate as an example of Republican corruption."

Our history lessons were more focused on spying in the UK than Watergate. We had a few who were of the upper class and converted to communism then spied for the USSR.... High up ministers sleeping with Russian agents.. ... etc, etc.

"I'm only telling you this so that ignorance cannot be used as an excuse"

Hey don't pass on your regrets onto me regarding your past political views. Get over it and stop beating yourself and 'liberals' up about it!!

(V): "Hey don't pass on your regrets onto me regarding your past political views."

What makes you think I have regrets? I'd have reason to reget it if I was still a part of it, but if I was still a part of it I wouldn't admit to regreting it even if I did regret it. You don't regret it because to do so would be to admit you've been wrong, but you don't believe you are wrong so you have no regrets. See how that works?

If I hadn't been a liberal at one time I probably wouldn't understand the mindset. What I feel is the opposite of regret. I'm happy about being a part of it at one time for two reasons: One, I'm no longer a part of it and two, it gives me some insight I wouldn't otherwise have.

Churchill knew what he was talking about when he said if you're not a liberal at 20 you have no heart... I think you know the rest of the quote. I appreciate the fact that he did not condemn young liberals, but instead he understood them.

Iamon lyme: Yep.... I know also this one by another British PM, William Gladstone.

"Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence. Conservatism is distrust of the people tempered by fear."

As for Democrats lying....

I think after hearing that the USA interfered with Italy's 1948 elections and did for the next 24 years via the CIA...

..So what? Why should anyone outside the USA care about whether they do or don't? Realistically we were lied to for decades.

The 50's golden age for the USA... Paid for by the USA government via the Marshall Plan. They gave money to Europe and Japan, we used it to buy American merchandise from American companies.... hence creating a false cash flow bonanza for American companies.

... I can't find the "Iron Sky" film clip. ;P

(V): Gladstone was a British PM governing yall with THAT philosophy? Hoo boy... I feel your pain. So apparently you've had the same problem we have, any of the gains made by your conservatives are chipped away at by your liberals. By the way, if Churchill and Gladstone weren't 'British' PMs, then what sort of PMs would they be?

The 'prudence' our illustrious president and beloved leader has exercised will ruin us if the trust he's already violated isn't soon recognised. Conservatism isn't distrust of the people, it's distrust of government... I thought you knew that. And fear is something we can all live without, like fear of global warming, or fear of what women will have to face if abortion is abolished, such as pregnancy and dirty diapers, not to mention *shudder* the abstinence needed to avoid that threat. I could go on for another few paragraphs about all of the fearful things conservatives are willing to let liberals endure, but right now I'm laughing so hard I can hardly see the screen. Laughter is good for the soul, but I don't need tears of laughter shorting out my keyboard... restraining myself seems the prudent thing to do.

(V): "The 50's golden age for the USA... Paid for by the USA government via the Marshall Plan. They gave money to Europe and Japan, we used it to buy American merchandise from American companies.... hence creating a false cash flow bonanza for American companies."

You are so focused on money you could have become a banker, or an economist... or a doctor, or lawyer. Didn't anyone ever tell you that money can't buy you love? Or happiness?

Iamon lyme: He got elected 4 times.

"any of the gains made by your conservatives are chipped away at by your liberals."

What gains did Bush give you?

"Conservatism isn't distrust of the people, it's distrust of government."

No. It's distrust of anyone in power who isn't Conservative. You guys were quite happy for Mitt to be elected. But then they make promises like smaller government.

"or fear of what women will have to face if abortion is abolished, such as pregnancy and dirty diapers, not to mention *shudder* the abstinence needed to avoid that threat."

Do you think those girls who were locked up and got free recently had a choice?
Please... stop with the stereotyping of women as being the only ones in the loop re birth control.

Unless, you think men cannot be responsible at all and therefore the entire burden of birth control is on women?

"You are so focused on money you could have become a banker, or an economist... or a doctor, or lawyer. Didn't anyone ever tell you that money can't buy you love? Or happiness?"

Didn't you ever here the phrase "follow the money" when it comes to criminal activities.... profit? Not like in "Dogma" when it was about "two prophets" who were gonna help save creation.

Yes.. Money does not buy happiness. But some people who have holes in their hearts think it does.

Maybe that's why the G20 are now looking at fighting aggressive tax avoidance.... They are fighting the greed... or the idea of young ladies hanging off their arms as they have big wallets.

..... Old rich men can get lonely you know!! ;P

(V): "Do you think those girls who were locked up and got free recently had a choice?"

Do you think resorting to this kind of example supports your argument? If you are suggesting that the majority of women in a relationship are kidnapped and held against their will, and forced to endure what those young women endured, then you need to get out more.

"Unless, you think men cannot be responsible at all and therefore the entire burden of birth control is on women?"

You are absolutely right V, men cannot be responsible at all and therefore the entire burden of birth control is on women... if those women are dating liberals who have kidnapped them and are holding them against their will. Studies have shown that liberals (the men) can be wearing belts and suspenders and STILL have trouble keeping their pants from falling down. We can send a man to the moon, but we can't prevent liberals from mooning the women they 'adore'.

Have you hugged your tree today?

Iamon lyme: I didn't hug the tree but I did pull some weeds.

Iamon lyme: No.

But it gets you hopefully to stop blaming women for being pregnant and using bad arguments yourself regarding pregnancy... it takes two to tango. I don't think we have many virgin births these days!!

That was the intent. ;P

Artful Dodger: Found some weeds that tasted like rocket.Then I realised I'd planted them!!

First salad leaves of the season ;P

(V): [ But it gets you hopefully to stop blaming women for being pregnant and using bad arguments yourself regarding pregnancy... it takes two to tango. I don't think we have many virgin births these days!!

That was the intent. ]


No. Your intent was to toss in an emotionally charged story about kidnapping and rape. A story that had nothing to do with what we were talking about. There was a time when no self respecting man would resort to that kind of tactic... but times have changed haven't they.

If you're not buying what I'm not selling, and insist on responding to what I'm not saying, then all you are doing is making political speeches. You don't need me for that... any imaginary opponent saying what you want him to say can fill that void for you.

I wasn't blaming women for being pregnant... that doesn't even make sense. If I was blaming women for anything, it would be for believing the inane idea foisted by liberals about their right to have sex without dealing with consequences or responsibilities. Liberals preach the same message to men, that screwing around is your God given right and you shouldn't have to suffer any consequences as a result.

Since you don't seem to understand what I was saying... I was making fun of people who act as though pregnant women have malignant tumors growing inside of them instead of children. That's sick, and something is seriously wrong with people who regard their own flesh and blood in that way. But what is truly laughable is the fear of no longer being able to behave like a child, but actually being expected to take on adult responsibilities. I'm talking about people who ARE adults... or at least appear to be.

Artful Dodger: I don't pull weeds anymore. I just spritz them with weed killer. I spritz the grass too, because the ground is mostly small chunks of bark and bark dust mixed with dirt. I think the previous owner fixed it up so there would be nothing growing out there. It's a small fenced in backyard, and the only thing I let grow in it is a patch of crocus that started growing last year. I don't know where the seeds came from, and I'm pretty sure there were no bulbs in the ground, but there was a powerful wind storm last year that blew all sorts of stuff in and it swirled around in a circle. And in that circle is where I have about a four square foot area of crocus growing.

This year the same patch of crocus is there, and a tiny bird has decided to make a nest under the leaves in the crocus... on the ground. I didn't know there were any birds around here that did that, I thought they all made their nests in trees and other high places. It's funny, the only bird that isn't afraid to share my backyard with me is a very small one.

Iamon lyme: Nope.

"There was a time when no self respecting man would resort to that kind of tactic... but times have changed haven't they."

No. I've seen it used here by conservatives all the time. But they say it's justified... so I'm feeling a little hypocrisy in such a statement.

"Liberals preach the same message to men, that screwing around is your God given right and you shouldn't have to suffer any consequences as a result."

Do they? I remember such talk in the Bible.... was that written by a Liberal?

"But what is truly laughable is the fear of no longer being able to behave like a child, but actually being expected to take on adult responsibilities. I'm talking about people who ARE adults... or at least appear to be."

Point!
A mature body does not mean a mature mind.

"I was making fun of people who act as though pregnant women have malignant tumors growing inside of them instead of children. That's sick, and something is seriously wrong with people who regard their own flesh and blood in that way."

... Point proven.
.....There was a time when no self respecting man would resort to that kind of statement, but times have changed haven't they.

(V): They've been asking the public for privacy you mor... er, I mean you champion of womens rights. They've been freed from the troll who held them hostage, and now they want the public to leave them alone and stop hounding them.

Iamon lyme: And?

(V): And what? Do you really need for someone to explain this to you? If those women cannot watch TV or listen to the radio or go online or go anywhere without being scrutinized or talked about, then the public has effectively made them prisoners in their own homes. And this will be my LAST post on this topic.

Iamon lyme: Ok... Maybe then you'll get back to the points you keep avoiding then through all these misdirection games you like to play ;P

But hey... your a conservative and it's ok for you guys.. At least the American Conservatives... not any other conservatives as they are not the same!! :)

(V): I apologize for distracting you from the points you were making, would you mind reiterating those points? If you've forgotten what they were that's okay, we can just move on to your next point. *<(:oP

*<(:oPfft

Iamon lyme: no. read back.

(V): Okay, I'll summarize this for you... and feel free to disagree.

You said I'm blaming women for being pregnant. If women never got pregnant you wouldn't be here to claim I blame women for being pregnant, and I wouldn't be here to see you blaming me for blaming them for being pregnant. It's a ridiculous statement. Unless you meant something else or can show me where I'm "blaming women for being pregnant" your claim is less than meaningless.

I explained why scandals are often tagged with the word "gate". If you disagree with my 'historical interpretation' then please enlighten me.

Bringing up a story of kidnapping and rape and trying to link that to what I was saying was childish. Grow up.

Iamon lyme: Then stop talking like you do. The way you talk about women (or a couple) wanting an abortion is bad.

It's a matter of interpretation of how you are stating your opinion.

"or fear of what women will have to face if abortion is abolished, such as pregnancy and dirty diapers, not to mention *shudder* the abstinence needed to avoid that threat."

You know it's the 21st century... Men have been changing nappies, dealing with early feeds for decades.. What about men abstaining?

"Bringing up a story of kidnapping and rape and trying to link that to what I was saying was childish. Grow up."

"And this will be my LAST post on this topic."

Make your mind up will ya!! ;)

(V): "The way you talk about women (or a couple) wanting an abortion is bad."

I believe abortion is bad. So? If you want to hear uplifting warm and fuzzy stories about abortion then talk to someone else... I have nothing good to say about it.

"Men have been changing nappies, dealing with early feeds for decades.."

Tell that to feminists who say women do all the work.

"What about men abstaining?"

What about it? Are you for it or against it?

(V): You assumed I regreted my political past. I told you I don't have regrets about that. The regrets I feel are more personal. I was a jerk with women, but at that time I saw myself as being a 'nice guy'. I've been forgiven by a few of them, and some of them have even told me it wasn't all that bad... even so I can't help but feel regret for the things I did and said.

Women who have had miscarriages will feel badly about it, even though they have done nothing wrong. So I can only imagine how some women who have had abortions might feel about that later on, when the reality of what they have done begins to sink in. I'm not saying all women will regret it, and many of them will buy into the kind of response I'm anticipating from you about this... I'm no longer a liberal, but that doesn't mean I've forgotten how liberals 'reason'.

Anyway, there's no point in my responding to your response before you've responded, so I'll just have to wait for it.

"or fear of what women will have to face if abortion is abolished, such as pregnancy and dirty diapers, not to mention *shudder* the abstinence needed to avoid that threat."

And if as in some families the man says no contraception.. baby comes along... have an abortion or else.

"I was a jerk with women, but at that time I saw myself as being a 'nice guy'."

Is that your way of explaining why you put all the blame on the women?

"Tell that to feminists who say women do all the work."

I'm not a feminist so that's irrelevant. ;P

"I'm not saying all women will regret it, and many of them will buy into the kind of response I'm anticipating from you about this... I'm no longer a liberal, but that doesn't mean I've forgotten how liberals 'reason'."

That doesn't even make sense.

"I believe abortion is bad. So?"

Ok.... Pretty much everyone agrees it's not nice. But you can't blame the women, especially in a country like yours where in many areas 'men rule the roost'.

Or do you believe conservatives don't have abortions?

(V): "Ok.... Pretty much everyone agrees it's not nice. But you can't blame the women..."

I don't blame the women. I blame you.

"...especially in a country like yours where in many areas 'men rule the roost'."

Yeah, back in the olden days when men ruled the roost. Pfft


"Tell that to feminists who say women do all the work."

[ I'm not a feminist so that's irrelevant. ;P ]

You can't talk to feminists because you're not a feminist? Is that one of your rules or theirs?

"Or do you believe conservatives don't have abortions?"

Are you talking about the men or the women, or both?

(V): "I'm not saying all women will regret it, and many of them will buy into the kind of response I'm anticipating from you about this... I'm no longer a liberal, but that doesn't mean I've forgotten how liberals 'reason'."

[ That doesn't even make sense ]

Oh, so you're all about making sense now? Next time inform of these changes before I answer, not after. Okay?

(V): "Please... stop with the stereotyping of women as being the only ones in the loop re birth control."

So how do propose I stop doing what I haven't done? You keep pulling words out of thin air, and then talk as though they are my words. Why do you do that? Please... stop making stuff up and claiming I've said things I've never said to fit with your stereotyping of me.

And by the way, calling abortion birth control is like calling genocide population control. I don't care how clever you think you are, or how you try to sugar coat abortion... it is what it is.

Iamon lyme: Hey... Dude. I'm only asking you to clarify yourself, as some items are not clear. But you seem to be just blaming women.

You blame Feminists. ... sorry, I missed that period of equal rights being called for.

"And by the way, calling abortion birth control is like calling genocide population control. I don't care how clever you think you are, or how you try to sugar coat abortion... it is what it is."

Wow... Heavy Dude, do you think you could use less extreme talk. It don't make your argument bigger.

N' what are you blaming me for?

Your reactions??

(V): "N' what are you blaming me for?"

I'm blaming you for blaming me for blaming women. This has all come from you, dude. The only one playing the blame game here has been you... and you're still doing it. Do you think women are stupid, and all you have to do is to say someone blames them and they will all automatically believe you?

""or fear of what women will have to face if abortion is abolished, such as pregnancy and dirty diapers, not to mention *shudder* the abstinence needed to avoid that threat.""

No mention of the mans responsibility.

"Do you think women are stupid, and all you have to do is to say someone blames them and they will all automatically believe you?"

Uh? I'm talking to you!! You're not making sense.

(V): [ ""or fear of what women will have to face if abortion is abolished, such as pregnancy and dirty diapers, not to mention *shudder* the abstinence needed to avoid that threat.""

No mention of the mans responsibility. ]


Read it again. Where do you see me excluding men from the picture? You're reading more into this than is there. I'll wager at least half (if not most) of all abortion advocates are probably men. I'm talking about men who want to get their jollies, but not be tied down financially or personally to any woman. The motivation for these men to embrace abortion and sound their trumpets as champions of womens rights is actually nothing more than self serving hedonism.

But you keep missing the point. I was referring to constant fear mongering by the left. Like fear of global warming, which could be followed later by fear of global cooling (I wouldn't put it passed them), or fear of pregnancy... and we all know what fearful and monstrous things pregnancy can lead to, right? CHILDREN!! Ahhhhhhh, be afraid! Be very afraid! Be afraid of.... Children!!!

There are supposed to be other things we are to be afraid of, but at the moment I can't seem to recall what they are. I'm so frozen with fear I can't remember!! Ahhhhhhhhhhhh!!

Iamon lyme: ..... The left is responsible for fear of pregnancy? Constant fear mongering...

Now it's the left, not the women!?!

As for climate change... we need to be aware of our input as a race. We've already changed much of the natural world... That's a fact. Ignore the extremists on that subject on all levels, whether left or right. ;)

If we are talking about the end of the world... Why are so many religious people forecasting it??

Is it purely as a means to create a congregation of people afraid of their God and fleece them? Or just a tax dodge??

(V): "The left is responsible for fear of pregnancy? Constant fear mongering...
Now it's the left, not the women!?!"

Stop hiding behind the women.

Left wing fear mongering is common knowledge in the states. Conservatives are always calling them on it and liberals are always denying it. But whenever liberals are backed into a corner, and cannot deny what they have been doing, then they will say everyone does it. hmmmmmm.... why does that sound familiar? Where have I heard that before?

hmmmmmm?

(V): "As for climate change... we need to be aware of our input as a race."

AND our output. I sneezed this morning. It impacted the planet and forever changed the course of human evolution... for the better. Thank goodness! I was afraid I might have blown the earth off course and into the depths of space.

(V): Most people drop their heads when they sneeze. Not me. If I didn't look up everytime I sneezed, I could easily blow myself out into space.

I always face West whenever I fart, so as to not interfere with the earths natural air flow, but yesterday something in the South caught my eye and...

Well, anyway... my apologies to all the people of the great state of Washington. It won't happen again.

If you have no goofy relatives, it doesn't mean your relatives don't, uh... have goofy relatives.

Iamon lyme: Fear mongering we consider part of the way America is now. The NRA, Tea Party, Christians, Left, Right.

It's just who you guys are.... America is known for it's paranoia and double standards. Yep!! Hence that line in "Iron Sky" when the US President is called on the fact they have an armed spaceship in orbit ..."We lied, we always lie. So what!"

"and cannot deny what they have been doing, then they will say everyone does it. hmmmmmm.... why does that sound familiar? Where have I heard that before?"

You, loads of people... Prime Ministers Question Time, WWF show, Church, Scientologists, the government, a reality show, Jeremy Kyle, the Daily Mail?????? :P

"AND our output. I sneezed this morning. It impacted the planet and forever changed the course of human evolution.."

.... the sea is made up of water molecules of a 3 atoms. Do you think though.... God might have sneezed and that might have formed the first clump of material that formed the Earth...

... Think about it!!

(V): "... Think about it!!"

About what? You mean about that laundry list of "everyone does it" you just now posted? Have liberals have been backed into a corner AGAIN? What did they do this time? I can't keep up with all of their shenanigans... it's like every other day it's some new thing.

By the way, seeing as how you've mentioned the Tea Party, I haven't heard a peep out of you about the left wing establishment's most recent scandal. Nothing to say about that?

(V): I'll give you a hint. This most recent scandal involves the IRS targeting conservatives and conservative groups, such as the Tea Party.

Remember Joe the Plumber? He embarrassed the president by asking him a question, and so one of Obamas minions investigated him. Of course, the president always disavows any knowledge of what these people are doing... you know, like the message sent to the Mission Impossible Team, and then the tape disintegrates into smoke so there is no evidence of it.

But Obama's mission impossible team keeps screwing up. They're always leaving evidence behind, and Obama is not very convincing when he say he don't know nuthin'...

Nope, I just the prez folks, I don't know nuthin' bout no shenanigans... hell, I don't even know what a shenanigan IS!!

Yobama is starting to sound like Joe the Vice President.

Iamon lyme:
.........God might have sneezed and that might have formed the first clump of material that formed the Earth...

"By the way, seeing as how you've mentioned the Tea Party, I haven't heard a peep out of you about the left wing establishment's most recent scandal. Nothing to say about that?"

I've not heard a peep about either in a while. Except via your gates...

... btb.. Is it big? Is it like the shenanigans of one MP (who was on "I'm a celebrity, get me out of here" wants to run for the dual vote next election?

Will it kill Kenny again?

... Sorry, it's "Question Time" night.. a rather satirical (supposedly straight) show at which MP's blame each other and avoid answering anything... with two peeps on the ends... one left and one right. ... .... ...

Rather like those two mice in a certain Zen story... strawberries!! :)

"I'll give you a hint. This most recent scandal involves the IRS targeting conservatives and conservative groups, such as the Tea Party."

Well if they have nothing to hide... what's the problem.... or is that persecution 'chip'?


... Wow. They can be like Jesus and turn the other cheek!!

Is that it?

.. or is it that persecution 'chip'?

(V): "Well if they have nothing to hide... what's the problem...."

And if liberals have nothing to explain, then why is it a scandal? If they've done nothing wrong then they have nothing to worry about.

Wow.... It beets the tax fraud.. ... sorry, targeting of innocent mutilnationals in by the UK government.

Billions of revenue and paying just £6 million in tax.

.. it such a small story man. .... *sniff*