Definition 1: progressive

Synonyms: advanced, avant-garde, broad, broad-minded, catholic, enlightened, flexible, free, general, high-minded, humanistic, humanitarian, indulgent, intelligent, interested, latitudinarian, left, lenient, libertarian, loose, magnanimous, permissive, radical, rational, reasonable, receiving, receptive, reformist, tolerant, unbiased, unbigoted, unconventional, understanding, unorthodox, unprejudiced

Antonyms: conservative, narrow, narrow-minded

Definition 2: giving, generous

Synonyms: altruistic, beneficent, benevolent, bighearted, bounteous, bountiful, casual, charitable, eleemosynary, exuberant, free, free-and-easy, handsome, kind, lavish, loose, munificent, openhanded, openhearted, philanthropic, princely, prodigal, profuse, soft-touch, unselfish

Antonyms: economical, greedy, mean, thrifty, ungenerous

Definition 3: Favoring civil liberties and social progress.

Synonyms: liberalistic, progressive

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That's a nice word. Think I'll stick with it. :o)

20,000,000 chinese laid off....does this indicate that we have a world downturn, or is it just par for the course?

Bernice: World downturn.

``The [government] must put the most modern medical means in the service of this knowledge.... Those who are physically and mentally unhealthy and unworthy must not perpetuate their suffering in the body of their children.... The prevention of the faculty and opportunity to procreate on the part of the physically degenerate and mentally sick, over a period of only 600 years, would ... free humanity from an immeasurable misfortune.''

RNC Protesters Face Felony Terrorism Charges

“Luce Guillen-Givins…is one of the first people ever to be charged under the 2002 Minnesota version of the federal PATRIOT Act. Guillen-Givins and 7 other members of the group RNC Welcoming Committee — also known as the "RNC 8" — were formally charged with conspiracy to riot in furtherance of terrorism.”

http://www.infowars.com/criminalizing-dissent-rnc-protesters-face-felony-terrorism-charges/

“Of the 1,330 Palestinians killed by the Israeli military during the 22-day invasion of Gaza, 437 were children. Let me repeat that: 437 children — each as beautiful and precious as our own.”

http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2009/02/20/once-you-see-what-truly-happened-in-gaza-it-will-change-you-forever/
[WARNING: This link is graphic!]

“The fascist state has always been an attempt to control private industry by means of inflation, taxation, and regulation. Fascism has always been a system of keeping the big boys alive and happy at the expense of the taxpayers.”

http://mises.org/story/3333

And you guys are worried about socialism....

Artful Dodger: And yet, you want a more big brother state to now cover child birth and who can raise children...... sounds rather Hitlerish to me.

... reasoning and understanding.. God like qualities I thought.

Czuch: Better tell your corporations to stop making so much fast food then, better tell your gov to face the social problems at hand all have been ignoring for years.

But then they would have to take REAL advice, from REAL people who won't be bullied by the lobbyists or bought off by them.

Is that possible in American government?

Czuch: Then regulate properly your health insurance companies. Make them show data on themselves, cap their profits at the expense of USA Joe, and make the insurance system more honest and less prone to being defrauded by Heath companies and doctors in the sway of drug companies.

Bernice: .... wasn't your gov doing a deal some 50 years ago, come over to Australia for ten pounds British people!! Emigrate!!!

(V): Is that possible in American government?

Like I said, its a trade off, and isnt perfect, neither is socilaism, I say let the socially minded move to a socialist country, and let the capitalist minded move here.... guess which country would fill up first?

The Usurper: I know!!! It is so sad!!!!

I hate that the Palestine terrorists hide themselves among women and children, shows them for the cowards they really are! We should wipe them from the face of the planet, once and for all!!!

The Usurper: Why do you have the word 'government' like that? Looks to me like it was inserted or changed and was not the original word used in the quote?

The Usurper: Sure stick with it... its not a bad thing for you to be a liberal..... but what does it have to do with a federal government?

I think you confuse the words government with society, a society can and should be all those things, but the society is not the same as the government.

hey fencer... see you looking in on us? Any comments?

Czuch: Then you'd get to extremes and end up back in the cold war again.

I doubt one country would get filled up, there are plenty of countries to choose from.

"I hate that the Palestine terrorists hide themselves among women and children, shows them for the cowards they really are!"

Then give the Palestinians a bigger country, so over crowding and a over dense population is no longer a problem.

Anf if you wiped the Palestinians of the face of the earth, you'd be in court facing possible termination, just like the Nazi's and everyone else who's committed genocide who's been caught.... You'd have to be on the run for a long time.

... Plus there would be the small matter of Arab brothers might get a little upset and cut oil supplies to the country which committed the atrocity.

..... And the Oil must flowwwwwww!!!

(V): Then give the Palestinians a bigger country,

You give them a bigger country then.... make some room, I say its easier to just kill all their terrorists, that should make plenty of room for them, or they could just emigrate, thats what happens when you outgrow your space....nobody is stopping them from moving into your country are they?

(V): I doubt one country would get filled up, there are plenty of countries to choose from.


Dont be so literal... point is, more people would migrate into the capitalist country than the socialist one!

(V): Anf if you wiped the Palestinians of the face of the earth,

never said anything about wiping Palestinians off the face of the earth just those that are terrorists

(V):Of course that's not what I'm arguing for.  I'm carrying out yours and Usurpers economic philosophy to its logical conclusion.

(V): our NHS is nothing to be proud of
its been underfunded for years by all goverments
we still hear about many many cases of http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2572841.stm

we still have patients dying on trolleys in corridors
you still have to wait years for even minor operations
nurses and doctors work VERY LONG HOURS 80 hrs a week some doctors work
for very lil pay

and that is something to be PROUD OF

Czuch: Nope, not enough terrorists to do make room by killing them all, besides.. they are the ones who bring in vital supplies that Israel keeps blocking.. you know.. food, meds.

Artful Dodger: No you are not, and logic isn't always the best way to think when considering humans.. We are not robots, or computers.

(V):

Snoopy: I've not heard a case of a patient dying through negligence for some years in a corridor, waiting years for minor ops.... From experience I know that is not true. The odd exception may take place, but making that appear the norm is not true.

As for Doctors working 80 hours... since 1994 regulations have in place under EU law and even soon after the rules were made, 95% of docs were working less then the 58 hours.

It was all over the news about the EU law on doctors hours.

Artful Dodger: Ok.. the politicians would like us to be as well as certain religious groups... But it'll never happen.

(V):Yes but bananas are yellow and camels don't wear horse saddles either.  But if you carry water in a bucket with a hole in it, you're sure to put too much sugar in your coffee.

(V): oh that must be why im still waiting after 20 months to have a small bone removed from my inside my nose so i can breathe properly
Has you well know Jules most of the NHS is based on a postcode lottery
if you dont live in a area that has that kind of treatment you dont get it


http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/129912.php

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-375194/Cancer-treatment-postcode-lottery.html

Artful Dodger: No, Bananas turn yellow, when picked they are green.

I never use a bucket with a hole in it to carry water, it's common sense not to. And I use a teaspoon to measure my sugar in my coffee... It's a good way to cut down.

(V):Don't use logic and break our own rule.

Snoopy: mmmmm when I've found people to delay a thing I pester them. You just must be one of the unlucky ones.

certain treatments over other treatments, you still get treated. And I thought there was some option in such cases to go elsewhere in certain cases. And the NHS will just pay for it.. Some EU scheme where you can get treatment in Europe.. including to avoid waiting times in some cases.

Perhaps you should check up on it with your GP or CAB.

Artful Dodger: Common sense is not logic, it's simple right action.

"our rule"?

(V): and logic isn't always the best way to think when considering humans.



..is that the liberal secret??? I have long suspected it... suspend logical thought in favor of the heart!



Had you told us that 8 years ago, it would have saved a lot of senseless typing

(V): what has the fact that"ten pound POMS" came to australia more than 50 years ago got to do with what I was saying? (this is where we need a compulsory subject line)


**No, Bananas turn yellow, when picked they are green.**
they turn yellow after they are subjected to a hell of a lot of ripening gas.

The only time bananas turn yellow naturally is when they are grown in someones backyard...I have them growing and you wait months for them to ripen.

Czuch: You bet. Psychopaths are quite logical.

You seem to misunderstand my position (purposely?). I don't love government. I love people. Could it be that you don't hate government, either...you just hate people?

Czuch: So is that why we needed to "get Saddam Hussein" also? So that we wouldn't be forced by his wickedness to murder 500,000,000 more Iraqi children (like we did in the '90s) just to keep him in line? Of course we got rid of him for sure! Him and another good million or so innocents.

It's tough we've got to murder innocents to fight the noble fight against wickedness. Ah well....I guess you'd argue, it's a tough job but somebody's gotta do it.

Nobody responded to my question when I posted the following quote early this morning:

``The [government] must put the most modern medical means in the service of this knowledge.... Those who are physically and mentally unhealthy and unworthy must not perpetuate their suffering in the body of their children.... The prevention of the faculty and opportunity to procreate on the part of the physically degenerate and mentally sick, over a period of only 600 years, would ... free humanity from an immeasurable misfortune.''

The quote is Adolph Hitler's. As (V) also observed, occasionally some posts here sound rather Hitlerish. We ought to be careful we know what spirit we are of.

Czuch:

"you confuse society with government"

No my friend, I only say government reflects society. I never voted for, or wanted, the kind of Big Brother government we have now. I only say that, if we have it, it ought to do some good, rather than harm.

You don't seem to object to big government, per se. If you did, you'd object to Homeland Security, the size of the Defense Dept., etc. But don't you relish handing over your hard-earned money for these?

You only seem to object to big government's using your money for other purposes, like environmental sustenance, or uplifting the downtrodden.

(V): it doesn't alter the fact that some patients don't get the treatment they need because of there postcodes
if there health care trust doesn't have enough money to fund there course of treatment they don't get it
and many of these cancer patients have WORKED all there working lives and they cant get the treatment they need
which brings me on to another subject close to my heart

free exchange needles for drug addicts
if drug addicts can get free needles why do ppl on insulin have to pay for there's

there's something really wrong in a society where ppl who are ill thou no fault of there own have to buy the needles to inject something to save there lives while the dregs of society can walk into any hospital or clinic and exchange there's for nothing

if this is the great NHS you are on about in my eyes and many thousands of others its a joke

Bernice: Nope.... It's a natural process, on transit to europe they are prevented from ripening....

Plus also, Their are ladies fingers... a yellow pink banana and red bananas, also known as Makabu which turn purplish red when ripe.

Czuch: No one said stop thinking, there are many types of thinking, and from a point of statistics no-one has invented a model that can logically predict humans, as we are all individuals and the empirical nature of how we grow and learn means that apart from certain common elements depending on area, etc means any logical..ish attempt to work out a human require alot of thought.

As for the heart... It is supposed to be the centre of our being, the place of reflection of the light that is I AM.

Technically speaking, anyone who ignores this when thinking is having dead thoughts, not living ones and is technically not awake.

Snoopy: what you are talking about is mainly regarding certain drugs that are expensive and the stretching of budgets. They still get treated, but not by the top drug possibly... and this is under review and several 'events' have made it a topic that is on peoples minds.. so I recon they'll be change.

Free needles for drug addicts is a saving on the NHS. Less needle sharing, less chance they will have to pay later to treat another person that is dying from a transmitted terminal disease.

.. It's called preventive medicine saving resources.

I'm sorry, but it's the rule to pay if you can afford to. But if you use the internet like many do, the price is very low and not really a real drain. I see about £8 pounds for a hundred syringes.

A Joke? Go private then. Or goto America and demand free health care.
Our system may not be perfect, but it rates better then many.

The Usurper: Thought it was Hitler or some other group dependent on calling themselves 'the chosen' and that others are less then they are.... such thinking is what creates suffering from observing history.

(V):I grow lady fingers....and they aren't yellowpink....they are also called sugar bananas. I live in THE banana capital of australia.....millions of tonnes are grown here each year, along with sugar cane. They are shipped green and are GASSED when they arrive at their destination. A bunch of bananas can take up to 6 months to ripen, and to hurry them along they are gassed.

CCP***Bananas need exposure to a naturally occurring gas called ethylene in order to ripen properly. Homeowners can "gas" their own bananas by placing them in an airtight plastic bag with several apples, which naturally emit the gas.***

CCP***Gassing bananas. This process, little known to consumers, is a bit of production wizardry that enhances profit.

Bananas are grown in the tropics, a fairly long way from the world’s population centers. Consequently, they are picked while quite green so they do not over-ripen before they reach the market.

When they near their destinations they are warehoused where they are exposed to Ethylene gas for a day, or more, which accelerates their ripening; turning bananas into that pleasing yellow color most consumers prefer.***

Stop the Hitlerian references.  From what I've observed, these references amount to no less than name calling and personal attacks.  

Hitler murdered 6 million Jews, had women and children murdered on his orders, and a host of other horrible crimes (not to mention the 5 plus million non-Jews that died at his hands).  

If you disagree with a political/economic policy, be descriptive in your objection.  But don't resort to "Hitlerish" and other such nonsense.  Orwellian would have been a more appropriate word in both cases where hitlerish was used. 

Wanna discuss Hitler as a topic?  Fine by me.  But using his philosophy as a club to whack your opponent will get your post fixed by me. 

And don't complain about this post of mine on this board.  Don't like it, write me personally.  Next Hitler reference aimed at another individual will be dealt with.

Bernice: never had to gas any bananas here, they just seem to turn yellow naturally.

Artful Dodger: No, not attacks, but reminders of how thinking regarding population control can go wrong, especially when you consider a group inferior to you. It's what kept the cold war going for years and even now creates death and destruction such as the middle east business, such as our NI terrorist war.

And I'm not complaining... but on the opposite side, can the references to what liberals are be kept under check?

(V): Or attacks put in the form of reminders.  I don't mind a discussion on repressive government policies that include many examples, but to take the current discussion and label one side "hitlerish" will be considered, at least by this moderator, a personal attack.  I've read those references and still have no specific idea as to what the "hitlerish" nonsense was referencing.  But if the posters had instead dealt in specifics, more would be gained. 

Czuch: What a convenient excuse for ruthlessness.

But let us extend your argument. Since "we should wipe [the terrorists] off the face of the planet," and since they use innocents as human shields, it follows that we'll have to wipe out all the Palestinians, terrorists & innocents together. Some advocate this. Apparently you are one of them?