(V): Well, you MAY have a point with this statement : "Because they know you'll blame the government rather than the old system first."

BUT, what I DO know, is my policy would not have gone up 89% this year, if the Anointed One had not put his horrible plan into action.

I am not going to get out the information on my old policy and list features. It's not necessary. It was an "ok" policy. Not covering every little thing, but yet still covering the most used, most important things.

My new one, pretty much only helps with the MOST basic things, as in a reasonable co-pay for routine visits to your primary care physician, and reasonable co-pays on prescriptions. If I need anything "special", I pay for it all, until I reach $3000 of money spent out of my pocket. Sure, fine, whatever, but it's STILL almost 50% higher than my old "half way decent" plan was!

If this jerk was not president, with his silly disciples in Congress, it would not have happened. I'd still have my old "half way decent" insurance, with the usual smaller yearly increase.

Can't wait for 2012 when we can get rid of HIM, too.

Ferris Bueller: wouldnt have happened withOUT obamacare though.

I can't wait for TUESDAY!!!!! And even more.. .I can't wait to see all the bummed out dems on Wednesday!

THOUGH, they better do a better job than they did before. Hopefully they have the message loud n clear of what most people want.

(V): You don't address the REAL LIFE story I have mentioned at least twice. I guess it isn't convenient to your argument?

MY health insurance went up EIGHTY NINE percent. WELL above any increase in ANY other year.
I am now forced to have an absolute horrible policy that doesn't cover any major tests until I meet my $3000 deductible. And THIS horrible policy is close to a FIFTY PERCENT INCREASE over my old semi decent policy.

Artful Dodger: I imagine there would be less unemployment if we didn't keep extending benefits.

Artful Dodger: At least some progress can be made in 10 days or so. I can't wait to be a part of voting as many libs out as possible. At least we can get a little "checks n balances" in place.

lizrising: It really isn't a good answer though when it is said "Insurance rates have been rising well above the rate of inflation well before Obama took office" . Well this is certainly true, all renewals since this horrible plan have come to be, have jumped higher than they EVER have. My policy at work was going up steadily each year, yes. 20% maybe? THIS year, it went up 89%!!! My employer could not justify this extra cost, and now I'm stuck with an absolutely HORRIBLE policy, and even THAT one is close to 50% higher than my old half way decent policy. Our insurance agent told us quite clearly that this was the insurance companies' efforts to be "prepared" for the changes.

SHe said we were lucky to be renewing Sept 1. She said the ones that were renewing in October were going to be even WORSE.

Artful Dodger: Federal govt can't do anything right/efficiently.. so yeah, let's give them MORE to do for us!

Craziness.

If a silly argument is about to start, it WILL be deleted, and NO warning messages will be sent

(V): All I know is I don't want Socialism in MY federal govt, and I will definitely do MY part to not see it be there.

(V): Cold war talk? I'm not sure where I have mentioned Cold War. Though, I'm not sure I classify as "conservative element". But maybe. I probably fall under that category more closely than I do "liberal element". But it's a bit too "blanket-y" for me.

I don't have the energy to bother going into the "brainwashing" bit as far as socialism goes. He is pretty darn close to it though.

(V): HA. He has found a way to combine the 2.

Artful Dodger: Yeah, Hannity's radio show deals with that a lot. He always tries to get the libs that call to tell him one great thing that the anointed one has done or has been successful at. Very rarely do they list anything specific. They either turn to bashing the past president, or keep talking in generalizations. I love his show.

(V): Doesn't bother me, you calling him that. He was a nasty president too.

I'm sure I have stated over time that I'm truly not a fan of either "defined" major politcal party in the USA.

I am NO fan of Bush.

(V): This country has an ingenious set up, (or it DID originally, unfortunately we have a socialist dictator who sees differently), where there are (simply) 3 levels of government. Federal, State, and Local. The Federal level was NEVER intended to INTRUDE upon our lives the way it is starting to do. Really, the level CLOSEST to the common person is the one that should be most involved in our lives. You don't like what your local government is doing, you either vote them out, or you MOVE to an area that is suitable to what you want.

Stupid votes like the volume of TV commercials irritate me, and if I find out that someone I CAN vote for was responsible for wasting the federal government's time with it then I will certainly keep that in mind with the next election. Now, the FCC is a totally different thing. THAT was set up for that sort of thing, and if THEY had regulated on it? Well, I would probably feel differently. (I'm NOT against people lowering the volume on commercials. LOL. I agree completely, it's annoying. It's NOT the job of the SENATE to decide that though.)

(V): NO, and that's EXACTLY the point. The constitution had NOTHING about anything as silly as that, because it's not supposed to insert itself into such matters.

Doesn't need to be legal either. People could stop doing business with the offending parties. Money talks.

(V): No, I wouldn't say so. I tend to take a more "old fashioned" view on what our Federal govt is supposed to do. As the founders intended, it is supposed to be very limited. This is NOT something the federal government should be concerned with. State? MAYBE, but even then. This is something that could be straightened out with the people on our OWN level. NOT by wasting my tax money. If they ONLY dealt with things that they were INTENDED to deal with, they could possibly do a better job at THOSE things. (I doubt it though. Anything the federal government butts into, they mess up and do it non-economically)

(V): Too stupid when there are much more important things to deal with. I don't like seeing bright red in commercials. Shall the Senate take that up too? Please, you just want to debate everything.

Tuesday: That's very optimistic. It's generally accepted that he is the worst president since Carter.

Tuesday: Ha! Everything that is important makes them grouchy. Good thing they will hopefully not be so powerful in a couple months. I know I'm certainly going to do MY part to make sure they aren't.

Tuesday: they have time to bother with stupid stuff like that? yet have to go "campaign" and skip the important stuff? Please. NO wait.. let's have more comedians.

Artful Dodger: I'm so peeved about this whole healthcare scam. I mentioned a month or so ago, that my policy was increasing by 89%. (and the agent specifically said pretty much all insurance companies are raising prices more than ever to "prepare for the reforms")

My employer could not justify absorbing such an increase (and I definitely can't afford to contribute more than I am), so we have switched companies/policies. The one I now have is still about a 40% increase, and is a horrible plan. My deductible has tripled, and it doesn't cover many things (like cat scans, etc) until I've reached my deductible.

THANKS Obama. I can't wait until that jerk is gone.

The Col: yes, idiots can be found in any group.... Does anyone really disagree with that?

Artful Dodger: disgusting

Artful Dodger: of course. It's how many of them operate

Though, I would add, I'm not sure I've seen too much of that on this board. Which I think is an important thing to point out. I stand to be corrected, though.

Artful Dodger: I have to agree. It seems that ever since Obama has entered the picture it's constantly the democrat/libs who are accusing anyone who doesn't agree with something the anointed one does, is racist. It's weak.

Artful Dodger: Until he runs it by ME, I'll continue to scoff at all the books that claim to be written by God.

Artful Dodger: because a silly book says so? Or WHY? HMM?

Artful Dodger: and a BOOK, written by HUMANS, of any religion, doesn't do it. Nothing you can quote from any of those books is EVER going to be proof of anything significant. The proof I see daily is all the proof I need. THank you.

Artful Dodger: It's "hostile" to prefer more "proof" than a book written by humans? The God I believe in, reveals itself every day. That's all I'm saying. The God I see many others talking about? I've NEVER seen anything that makes it seem true. The God I see most talking about, seems to be just a way to make others "obey" what their common belief is.

Artful Dodger: When You, or any other "orthodox" of any religion can PROVE it, I will happily fall in step.

Artful Dodger: Hostile? LOL.. NO, if anything just the opposite. I'm happy that people have some sort of faith. It's a silly argument though to call disagreement "hostility" though. Sounds like many of the arguments that you fight so fervently against.

Artful Dodger: "Inspired"??? Please.

Not one that should make everyone go to war against each other. And hate each other, because of stuff that CANT be proven.

When the human like GOD comes and stands here and says what the truth is, I will believe in the human like GOD.

Until then, I will continue to believe the more logical idea that God is everything around us, air, life in general, not a person like IDOL at all.

Artful Dodger: a book written by humans? that's silly to be reluctant to believe THATS the word of GOD?

Very illogical

Bernice: Well that is exactly my point. I won't believe any human until they DO indeed come back from "heaven" and can prove it.

Artful Dodger: Why the heck should "orthodox" matter? That's the route of everything to me. I DON'T get why ANYone, (Jewish, Muslim, Christian, etc.) thinks THEY have the monopoly on what is correct.

Artful Dodger: But y'all (and I DO mean "all") act like you know the definites.

Tuesday: But it's called the "word of God" by those who believe in it. I don't buy it for a minute.

That's just ME of course, and I certainly can't claim to be right! But those who believe it claim to be right about something they couldn't possibly know!

I'm NOT atheist. I believe STRONGLY in "GOD". The "GOD" I believe in though is nothing like what I have read in any religion. It seems TO ME like all the major religions see "GOD" as human like.

Granted, I have NEVER studied any of this deeply. Probably more than the "average joe", but not as much as some of you.

I don't understand why it can't be a purely personal thing. Why does it have to be a team sport? Where the World Series is going to come and we will find out who the winner is. ??? I don't get that. I will NEVER accept that any of us human beings TRULY know what the real answer is.

Saved? Laws?

I think this is the sort of thing that bugs me most about organized religion. Everyone assumes they know what the truth is. How can any of us TRULY know? It's all about FAITH, I guess. And FAITH is a wonderful thing. BUT, it should be a PERSONAL thing, since there is NO way any of us will truly know what the meaning of all of this is, POSSIBLY until we die. (And who is to say EVEN THEN, we will even know?)

All these "BOOKS" that everyone references, are JUST BOOKS. Written by HUMANS. I don't get why that means any more than ME saying what IM saying as a fellow human. LOL. I just don't get it.

Tuesday: It's a HUGE dilemma to me. I have NO doubt that these 3 particular ladies who "ran" this class were quite wonderful people. In OTHER respects, they had a pretty big impact on my life. I struggle with it. I find it hard to believe that they would have "faked" it. They were generally quite caring about all of us. Is it possible that some people are just so "overcome" that they really think it is happening? I'm totally torn about it. I think overall, I guess I think it's some psychological thing on their part, that they truly believed it was happening. It TRULY blew MY 12 yr old brain though.

Tuesday: As a child, I went to a "Bible School" once a week, after school.

In some ways it was a wonderful experience. The ladies who taught it, were wonderful people. It usually dealt with a sort of kid's version of a sermon... and then some singing.. then some arts n crafts. However, I remember a few times, when this singing/sermon would end up in them "speaking in tongues" .. for a 12 yr old, this was actually quite alarming, and it is actually one of the things I remember most.

I personally am quite anti-organized religion. I sometimes think it was because of this childhood experience.

However, I believe that whatever each of chooses to believe, to help us get through this world, is what should be.

Personally, I guess I'm more of a "naturist" (if that is even an acceptable term). This isn't I suppose, about what we personally believe, but I would say that I feel God is all around us. God is nature. God is the air. God is whatever gives everything LIFE. I don't believe that God is at all human like. There isn't a God that sits in judgement, to me. To me, the whole judgement thing comes from "fate" in general. I Do believe what "comes around, goes around"

Hmm, I seem to have forgotten what my point is.

I guess I'm at a disadvantage in that since I don't subscribe to any "organized religion" (I was brought up "Baptist" though), so I don't have any "WORDS" to support me.

I guess the subject of "speaking in tongues" brought some "interesting" memories to me. I think, looking back on it, I feel it was quite irresponsible of them to allow this sort of thing to happen, in front of a bunch of children. I think it had a LOT to do with my current reluctance to accept any form of "organized" religion.

Artful Dodger: "moron" isn't name calling? HMMM?

(V): There is prejudice everywhere. In every political party. Prejudice against any possible classification/group.

I guess I just get sick of either side sounding like the other side has exclusively done it.

(V): Perhaps

(V): Of course he COULDN'T truly believe and feel what he is saying? He must be just doing it to make some money? Interesting. Libs NEVER do THAT of course.

(V): So is he not a "good" black man if he isn't a democrat? Please.

Artful Dodger: I think you can say that about lib POLITICIANS, but I doubt your average LIB voter is fond of pedophiles. Let's be realistic

Artful Dodger: both sides only seem to be able to whine about each other, and throw insults back and forth. And both act innocent about it, and both act like the other side is worse..

It's crazy to me.

Both sides are equally bad.

Tuesday: Think again.