The Usurper: actually i say and have said leave iran alone, they haven't attacked anyone, there is only one aggressive power in the mideast and that is Israel, and they are the only one with nuclear weapons

The Usurper: as always , quite welcome

By the way,, any theories or opinions on the bombing of the fed building in OK?? you know the one that got blamed on poor Tim McVeigh and that other guy Nichols??

Charles Martel: Well, we partly agree on this. The one other aggressive power there is the U.S. I guess you could argue they are the same, since Israel uses the weapons we supply them.

Charles Martel: Also an inside job, under the Clinton administration. Practice run for 9/11, and more importantly at the time, a way to put militia movements in a bad light.

The Usurper: well i agree on the militia part.. especially the Ruby Ridge incident

The Usurper:I love the blame America first crowd.  The only two aggressive nations are the US and  Israel.  lol

But do go on.  I've read the websites and I know the drill.

And don't forget that going to the north pole was part of the conspiracy too. 

Charles Martel: Yes, Ruby Ridge is another major incident in the rise of the American police state. Waco is another.

My difference with liberals is this: they refuse to recognize the mal-intent of their Democratic leaders, while often recognizing it in Republican leaders. And my difference with conservatives is the same: they see the evil of Clinton, but not Bush, etc.

Artful Dodger: Well I guess then that one might say: You are without excuse. :o)

My beliefs about America have been severely modified by my research. There were plenty of sacred cows I had to slaughter. Its par for the course.

I said once, in 2000 years, they might be calling David Koresh Jesus, but my audience didn't get it

Charles Martel: Very true, they certainly made a martyr of him. Total setup from the get-go. And whatever one might think of his religious beliefs, it's supposed to be a free country. The most unpardonable sin was the government's murder of innocent children.

Charles Martel: But at the rate we're going, we may not be here in 2,000 years, so it may be a moot point.

I also don't distinguish between Holocausts. Whether it is the events of Waco, the Germans exterminating the Jews, Stalin killing 20,000,000 Russians, Zionists destroying the lives of Palestinians, or Americans slaughtering Iraqis & Vietnamese....it's all the same. A spade is a spade.

The Usurper: Don't forget the crusades, the reformation wars and that the two founders of the protestant faith both wanted the Jews wiped off the face of the earth... for what they did to Christ, which I find kinda strange as if it wasn't for Their involvement in the 'death' of Christ we'd have no Christianity.

... Also if their wish had come true and the Jews had been wiped off the face of the earth then important info regarding the base of Christianity, ie Judaism and Pardes (a rule regarding interpretation of the Jewish scripture) would have been lost, and if that had happened, Christianity would basically have to shut up shop for being incomplete.

Bernice: What is a pig dog? I've heard of a bulldog.. which is a British dog, and to a degree a symbol of the British ability to hang on during times of great hardship (like WWII).

And referring to a person as an "it" is in reality a step towards the same ideas that certain people over the centuries with ideas of committing genocide thought. A step down a slippery ladder to hell and suffering.

(V): You are so right on all these observations. God save us all from those who apparently call upon Him most fervently. And let's not forget that the ignorant St. Augustine, reverred by Protestants & Catholics alike, first laid out the doctrine that compulsion to make one a Christian, including by means of torture, was a good thing because thereby a soul was saved from Eternal Damnation. Amazing stuff, really.

I am beginning to wonder if, above & beyond all these forms of deception and control which seem to make of history a bloody shipwreck no matter the good intentions of the many, there might really be some demonic or otherworldly power pulling the strings....and perhaps feeding off the negative energy created through suffering.

I certainly don't know...but at least it's a theory which attempts to account for what is.

The Usurper: I remember one bit where to describe God as an 'energy' rather then some old man with a white beard was considered heresy. Pity that those who tried that didn't understand that the only reason God is called Father aka a 'he' is in regards to God's relation to us according to strict Judaic understanding, and that the Jewish language is by nature one that uses male and female as per the French language.

Bernice: Ahhh, no worries. procedures.

(V): Both the Jewish scriptures & the Christian present profound truths but unfortunately organized forms of religion tend to forget that "the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." Symbolism is the rule in the great part of Scripture, but so few seem to possess "ears to hear."

This discussion might belong on the Religion board except for the fact that these belief systems effect our world politically so greatly. I might sometimes sound like a "Christian hater" but I am far from that. In fact (a bit of history), in 1988 I returned from preaching a sermon on holiness to the pastor's house, only to watch Jimmy Swaggart breaking down on the TV. This devastated me...I could not comprehend it at the time. It challenged all my belief system to the core...about myself, about God, about holiness...about everything. So Paul said, "Examine yourselves, to see if ye be in the faith." And any kind of understanding of the world must begin with personal soul-searching.

Bernice: That is a very good analogy. What might one call someone who habitually snipes at the posts of others without contributing much to any conversation in particular? :o)

Charles Martel: thank you

The Usurper: One word on why the buildings had to come down: "Shock and Awe"


Really??? Flying a plane or two into the WTC isnt enough shock and awe?? They had to also take the risk of implanting explosives???? Doesnt make any sense to me, had those buildings just burned to the ground, would have been enough, no need to blow them up on top of it all


Also, why "pretend" that a plane hit the pentagon, and instead fly a missile into it? and then hope that nobody notices when you make the plane just disappear?

and you never answered about the cell phone calls from the plane, all fake all part of the big master plan, to fool us all?

The Usurper: And my difference with conservatives is the same: they see the evil of Clinton, but not Bush, etc.


Problem with this statement, is it isnt accurate... the part about liberals and Bush is true, all liberals could talk about is how evil Bush was, but never anything on a substantive basis.....

But as far as conservatives and Clinton, aside from the part where he lied about an affair with an intern, conservatives simply disagreed with his policies and ideas, it was never about "he is evil and bad blah blah blah..."

Same for Bam.... we simply disagree with his and other liberals "collective" agenda, he is not stupid or evil, he is just misguided and wrong.

The Usurper: Do you happen to also believe in fairies???? Because you seem to believe the tales they tell

Bernice: GOD spellled backward's is dog We are not pigs here on earth we are human's.GOD is a spirit within you not in books or anything else A true god would never create anything like the earth which we are all living in that is just my opinion

"GERRY": You have something against pigs?

Czuch: LMAO not really i had them on my farm at one time LMAO:)))) i had them for food LOL:))))

"GERRY": A true god would never create anything like the earth which we are all living in...

MAN has created what we are living in..look at how the earh was BEFORE man had it's hand in destroying it..use to be a nice place untill we messed it all up

anastasia: Move to Mars. Look how nice it (or is Mars "he"?) is without us. I'm sure you'd feel very comfortable there. No man around... what an awesome place to live.

sorry, but I have already got land rights on the prime sections, I'm having them subdivided and will be putting up condos shortly,, I could get you a sweet deal on one though

anastasia: Still looks pretty nice from where I sit...

anastasia: I checked your profile you are a FE MALE what gender is that i no what a women is tho :))) & by the way CARL what price range do these cond's start at:))))

"GERRY": what? lol

Pedro Martínez: you know..it is MY opinion that humans are trashing the earth..we litter,we take and never give back,you can have YOUR opinions too,if you dont like mine why dont YOU move...and Earth is ALWAYS refered to as MOTHER EARTH,my god,educate yourself on that would ya please and stop dissing me when I do refer to it as such

anastasia: we take and never give back

Thats a pretty harsh assessment.... doesn't planting a new tree count towards "giving back"?

anastasia: It's the battle of the sex's as i see it

Czuch: What about composting????

Czuch: & the list can go on & on until we all join together as equal's & enjoy what is already here or could be & that is PEACE ON EARTH

Czuch: you're right...that statement I made was WAY to general.....thats my bad..that one's on me :)

"GERRY": thats pretty :) (wish I had my smilies,lol...my post be be way cooler to ya if I did,lol..I would give ya flowers and bouncy smilies and stuff!!)

anastasia: Yes, it IS your opinion, I do respect it, but I have every right to disagree and to let you know about it.

As for the gender of your mother Earth, you keep confusing me. This is what you wrote:
look at how the earh was BEFORE man had it's hand in destroying it..use to be a nice place untill we messed it all up

The Usurper: ***What might one call someone who habitually snipes at the posts of others without contributing much to any conversation in particular***

Don't know really
there are too many people in here that do that to be able to lump them/us into the same category

The Usurper: Symbolism is a very important part of scripture, It is said that there are four levels of interpretation regarding Jewish scriptural writing. There is also a saying that to save the world you have to save one person only.... yourself.

Just the start of Genesis has several meanings, including one that goes with the idea of the God inside and those who have lived in darkness. The cry "Let there be light"

As for the spirit...... some would say that is present and visible everywhere if you have the ability to see it. It's not just in us but exists in it's holy form everywhere. And seemingly.... as some know... especially visible around those in need of extra support.

The only problem I have today with certain Christians is their seemingly trust in the word of others without using their mind and soul to reflect and feel the word of God. As certain philo's would say they have given up their ability to be like God aka an unmoved mover and in as such full illumination.

But.. It's early days yet for us as a race.

"GERRY": In certain respects this world is a projection of the human race's mindset. In certain respects this is a learning ground to as stated in gospel 'create the Kingdom of God' while on earth.

As said in the Gospel of Thomas by Jesus. "Heaven is in us and around us."

Czuch: Really, you might look into some of these things for yourself, then you wouldn't be asking for breakfast in bed (metaphorically speaking).

Google "did phone calls from planes take place on 9/11?" and see what you come up with. I just did. There's plenty to look at, like this:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10103

and

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/carrollton-ga/TJ5K48PRS4SPM862L

But I can't do it all for you. If you have no real interest in this topic outside a Politics board on BK, and no source of political information outside of Fox news and related media, there's not much I or anyone else can do to enlighten you.

The Usurper: OOOOOOOOOOOOOHHH such cutting remarks

(V): As usual, you do not surprise me with your intuitive grasp of things, but it is always a pleasure to read.

I think the great "heresy" that wove its way into Christianity is the idea of "separateness," that God is external from his Creation acting upon dead matter, or that fundamentally the Universe(s) is not one great organism both spiritual & material existing in many gradations.

Not that only Christianity has suffered from this delusion, but we all "see through a glass darkly," in these relatively early stages.

Another problem with Christianity as a religious movement, I think, is it's separation from the essential anti-Imperialistic message of Christ & the early Church, to the Imperialism of Rome. In the 4th century Rome co-opted the Church and Christians began to think in a Roman legal framework, and to systematically eliminate (through Church Councils) all the finer points & interpretations that were a part of the vast Christian heritage during its first 3 centuries. Thus began the Dark Ages, where knowledge becomes an evil-in-itself because of the light it sheds on individual minds....a very bad thing for those whose goal is to control you.

Bernice: I always love your posts. But really, those "cutting remarks" aren't meant to be so...but to point to the path of knowledge & the way out of ignorance. ;o)

Artful Dodger: I have an uncle who attempted to send me on a snipehunting expedition as a boy. lol