Artful Dodger: You seem to have no problems diiscussing Fox on this board when you feel you have an argument to defend them with.Pulling board protocol in this instance is a cop out don't you think?

It has become a "politica topic" a member of our ruling party has asked for an apology, does that now make it worthy?

Jim Dandy:You are now walking very close to the edge with me.  It has nothing to do with fox.  It has to do with what I said in the beginning.  Don't post a link and call that an argument.  If you can't accept that, then don't post here.  Now drop it with me. 

Artful Dodger: I didn't see an argument, just how such comments can be made regarding a friendly powers soldiers who are fighting side by side with yours and my country's soldiers can be made on a TV station.

Quite frankly, it doesn't matter where it came from, but it was done.

It's bad form. Even us 'liberals' over here... except in a small number.. respect and love our troops and that of other country's fighting this war against terrorism.

Over here if such a broadcast was made, the company responsible will find themselves in court and probably lynched by a few million people descending on their offices. The regulatory body, who upholds complaints against a broadcaster will find their phone system overloaded with calls.

... It'd be raised in Parliament. Also every other company who broadcasts or prints will be condemning it. We'd probably do a petition for that companies licence to broadcast be revoked... And I recon the PM would say yes.. revoke it.

(V): I agree with you.  And you at least have made your own argument concerning the piece.  I've watched that show and they are very irreverent.  But so are The Simpsons and Family Man.  Both on Fox.  So what?  You have provided your view of the "so what" and that's what's needed more around here.  What matters is the context of the argument. 

On the other hand, what I saw was simply a group of people slamming the idea of the Canadian military taking a year off.  That idea does seem like fair game for criticism and even some sarcasm.  Red Eye is a satirical take on the news.  That's it.  And yes the host apologized.  But Red Eye approaches ALL TOPICS in this irreverent, lighthearted, humorous and ridiculous manner.  It's what they do.  Still, it was bad form as you say.  But keeping it in proper perspective, it was a five minute segment on a comedy show.  They make fun of the news.  It's not that huge.

Artful Dodger: As I watched it, I got the idea that the Canadians were taking a year off as they are 'depleted in supplies and working vehicles.'

Then to take the mickey like that, especially after Canada stopped terrorists from entering the USA.

Similar problems have occurred here in the UK, with our troops having inadequate equipment, or more seriously now.. Our Nimrods need a major overhaul due to major safety issues.

We had a case over here, where two guys made a bad joke. One had to resign, the other got suspended for several months.

... and they both said sorry.

(V):The only way to lose one's undies over things like that is if there is a consistent pattern of that sort of thing.  You can be sure Red Eye won't tread on that topic again.  Some people hate Fox so much that they will pick out things like this and dwell on them until hell freezes over.  Well deserved if it were to continue.  But an apology and acceptance puts this one back in the drawer.  It's a non issue.

Here is a quick & excellent analysis of Western imperialism by means of the IMF & World Bank. It may benefit someone here to read this article.

From the Freedom Force website, it is G. Edward Griffin's analysis (from a Libertarian viewpoint) of the book, "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man," which Griffin considers "One of the most valuable and dangerous books of our time."

In my opinion, Griffin does a great job of weeding out the propaganda so that the facts themselves can teach us something about our world.

http://freedom-force.org/freedomcontent.cfm?fuseaction=confessionsecon&refpage=issues

Artful Dodger: Really.. a non issue... Perhaps you could tell the Canadian Defence Minister that..

"I think it is an uninformed view," MacKay told CTV. "It is crass. It is insensitive and it is in fact disgusting given the timing, when Canada is just receiving back four fallen heroes today."

"There should be an apology to the families in particular and to the Canadian Forces and to Canada generally, given the sacrifice and the commitment that we have demonstrated in Afghanistan," he added.

Or the Canadian people, as the "non issue" has created angry reactions in Canada. Some people are threatening to boycott American goods.

108 Canadians have died in Afghanistan.

Jim Dandy: Jim, its called COMEDY.... thats what comedy is, you poke fun at things and people and such.

Also, its NOT fox news, it might be on the fox channel, but it is nothing to do with fox news, any more than saturday night live has to do with NBC news....

for you to even be legitimate here, you have to be against ALL comedy that pokes fun at people and things like the canadian military, are you? Did you ever laugh at parody about Bush or Palin?

If you have never laughed at any parody, then I can accept your point, otherwise you are just against certain parody, and that makes your point illegitimate!

Artful Dodger: Well deserved if it were to continue.

Thats hog wash!

If it is okay to characterize our president in the ways they did with parody about Bush, then the canadian military shouldnt be off limits either!!!

(V): Perhaps you could tell the Canadian Defence Minister that..


that guy is an idiot then!

(V): The death toll after last week is actually116, but thanks for making a more concise argument than I clearly was capable of

Jim Dandy: I'm sure that the vast majority know and appreciate Canada's help, they've been our allies in both world wars and i believe Korea also.Rightly or wrongly with comedians there is no topic off limit and you can't expect them to be censored every time

Charles Martel:

Charles Martel: Well said, it's all about RESPECT for the troops who have no control over policy.Until your post I've only seen defensive comments towards the network with no acknowledgement of how distasteful the comments were.

Jim Dandy: So the troops deserve respect... who else is on your list that deserve so much respect that they are off limits to parody????

Czuch: An idiot.

Ok, lets put it on another foot... supposed it was your military taking a beating from some comedians? Ya know... tend to shoot friendlies, don't know how to shoot.....

... But I know how you'd react to that. You'd be furious. That's not idiotic, that's being loyal to your soldiers and your military.

Czuch: Anyone who fights besides your troops and our troops deserves respect.

Period!!!

Czuch: I personally don't find the mocking of soldiers funny,to each his own.

(V): of course you have shown a tendency to take veiled shots at American troops also, along with anything American, that is

It's fairly up to date, including comments from the Canadian defense minister

http://watch.ctv.ca/news/power-play/monday-march-23/#clip153165

Jim Dandy: I personally don't find the mocking of soldiers funny,to each his own.


I personally dont find parody about president Bush funny, but that didnt stop anyone, nor did you hear me ever complain that it was disrespectful, as it surely was as well.

So the question again.... do you fight against all comedy that shows disrespect to someone or some group???? I seriously doubt it for anyone in here...

(V): But I know how you'd react to that. You'd be furious.

you would be wrong again....

Czuch: I disagree with the "troops" being mocked, those who are put in harms way with no say in their deployment.

Charles Martel: Nope. I don't touch soldiers unless they are guilty of war crimes such a torture.

.. anything American!!

I think you've not been paying attention to my posts or the nature of the context.

But that's your problem

Czuch: you'd let your troops be mocked? Shame on you!!!

As I said, us Brits were against GWII, but we supported our troops 99.99%
We've even set up a new charity over here to aid those injured in action.

(V): I think many who confused(and used) opposition to the Iraq war as opposition to the actual soldiers believe there own propoganda now.

(V):   It's no longer an issue because it's been dealt with.  That's all I meant by saying it's a non issue.   I will go even farther.  People who continue to make this an issue are exploiting the dead soldiers.  They are using this incident, and the death of the Canadian soldiers to score points. 

(V): As I said, us Brits were against GWII,

Well, my opinion it is just as disrespectful to make a parody about Bush as it is the canadian military...

explain to me how it is different?

Czuch: Your opinion is noted, we each have one

Jim Dandy: I didn't. Our soldiers do what they are told to do, they fight where they are told to fight. It's a job.. a hard one and can lead (as I've met some guy who saw the bad side of the Northern Ireland war) to it affecting their lives mentally and/or physically for a period of time that extend to being for the rest of their lives. Opposition to he war, calling a leader a joke or putting him down for being an idiot... that's par for the political course and par for the right to people to have an opinion on the matter.

I mean.. when you find your PM has lied about significant details regarding Saddam's offensive capability and that the decision for us Brits to join in on GWII... then you have the right to be annoyed. When you feel that Saddam had no WMD's.... and I believe many of those presenting evidence in the UN by their manner thought the evidence was dodgy...

... Are you going to keep quiet, or voice your concerns?

Artful Dodger: ?? Sorry, but I think you'll find that a certain country doesn't feel that way.. and many of that countries Commonwealth brothers and sisters may share that feeling.

And I'm not pretending to be offended. I am offended.
As I said, if it happened over here those guys would be canned.

Czuch: Bush is a leader, not military. And excuse me, but the way some Republicans are making jokes of your current Democrat President is the same or worse.

I also have to say that if opposition politicians are allowed in a democratic free western world to take the mickey out of our PM during PM's Question time, or at any other opportunity they can find.. it kinda gets you thinking that such attitude keeps our leaders on the ball.

[A spaceship carrying a 100 foot tall silver robot had just landed in, or more accurately, on, a rather expensive chunk of London real estate, specifically Knightsbridge and more particularly, Harrod’s:...]


"I come in peace," it said, adding after a long moment of further
grinding, "take me to your Lizard."


Ford Prefect, of course, had an explanation for this, as he sat with Arthur and watched the nonstop frenetic news reports on television, none of which had anything to say other than to record that the thing had done this amount of damage which was valued at that amount of billions of pounds and had killed this totally other number of people, and then say it again, because the robot was doing nothing more than standing there, swaying very slightly, and emitting short incomprehensible error messages.

"It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."

"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"

"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."

"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."

"I did," said Ford. "It is."

"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?"

"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."

"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"

"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."

"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"

"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard
might get in. Got any gin?"

(V):   Be offended then.  It was 5 insignificant people, several of whom are comedians (they make fun of stuff for a living) on a show that mocks everyone (including the US).  It's much to do about nothing at this point.  People have already apologized.  So for those of you still offended, it's not about you anyway so who cares that you are offended? 

All of this nonsense complaining over a comedy show.  Move on already.

Artful Dodger: Wow..... people are not allowed to show empathy for their Commonwealth brothers.... I shall tell the Queen not to bother with it any more after all the hard work to rebuild relations and the sense of a Commonwealth.

It's all pointless!!

(V):   I don't see sympathy being shown.  I see something else at play here. 

Artful Dodger: Well that's you, and I feel that's you getting grumpy over Fox.

But as I said, it doesn't matter. When something similar happened on a BBC radio show (as in went OTT) ... One guy had to resign, the other was suspended for several months. And they were just taking the mickey over relations between the one who resigned and a famous person grand daughter (she is an adult who enjoys bondage and goth) ....

Artful Dodger: re: So for those of you still offended, it's not about you anyway so who cares that you are offended?

You make interesting conclusions based on very limited knowledge.

(V):   And I feel it's you taking advantage of the military that are in harms way for your own ideological view.    

Artful Dodger: HUH?
I'm not sure you haven't had an out of body experience during the progress of the discussion, but it's your board, go nuts

Jim Dandy:Translation:  "I hate Fox news and so I'm going to make a really big deal out of this small mole hill."

Looks like exploitation to me.  Not a good thing. 

(V): Bush is a leader, not military. And excuse me, but the way some Republicans are making jokes of your current Democrat President is the same or worse.


Sorry I am not letting this one go..... you are saying that certain topics are off limits for making fun of on a comedy show, right?

But that makes a bigger question then.... who makes the choice of what those topics are???? You think it is the military, I think it includes a president, someone else thinks the handicapped are included, then there are those that dont like anyone making fun of clowns..

the point is, you either have to let them make fun of anyone they want to or nobody at all!

Which is it for you???? It seems like you want to be the person to decide who can be made fun of, that your opinion is the most valid one and the rest of us dont matter?

There is a bigger issue here... its called censorship...

The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen. ~Tommy Smothers

I am thankful for all the complaining I hear about our government because it means we have freedom of speech. ~Nancie J. Carmody

The test of democracy is freedom of criticism. ~David Ben-Gurion

If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859

We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. ~John F. Kennedy

If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. ~Noam Chomsky

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. ~Voltaire

You can protect your liberties in this world only by protecting the other man's freedom. You can only be free if I am free. ~Clarence Darrow

THE PROFIT MOTIVE

"The profit motive functions differently in different political systems. In a FREE SYSTEM where government does not intervene in the market place, the profit motive always will manifest itself as COMPETITION, each person or each company trying to deliver better quality products and services at lower prices. That was how it used to be in the early days of America, and that is what led to the greatest outpouring of productivity and abundance the world has ever seen. However, in a COLLECTIVIST SYSTEM where government controls every conceivable aspect of economic and commercial activity (the system that now exists in America), the profit motive always manifests itself as a quest for POLITICAL INFLUENCE and laws to favor one group over another. The net effect is to eliminate competition in the market place. Under collectivism, success is achieved, not by CREATING BETTER PRODUCTS and services for less cost, but by CONTROLLING LEGISLATORS and government agencies. It is a system of LEGALIZED PLUNDER, as Frederic Bastiat called it in his famous treatise, The Law. Unfortunately, it is the system that dominates most of the world today."
--G. Edward Griffin

This is a superb analysis, the kind of analysis that has helped me to understand why a free market is not only more efficient, but also more ethical, than a controlled market, under whatever name.

I've a question? How is everyones Blood Pressure on this board? Dang! And peeps always complain that a woman is Itchy with a B? LOL