TheCrazyPuppy: You can see the whole of the country with those eyes then? Hooked into all the CCTV systems are you?

(V): oh very funny
you know exactly what i meant
get out from behind your pc for once and go see for yourself

Aren't there some fellowships designated for flamewars? The "discussion" below has nothing to do with politics, let alone serious argumentation.

Pedro Martínez: yes your right
i was side tracked there sorry

TheCrazyPuppy: I'm not a politician.. I don't get fact finding missions paid for.

As I said, show me stats that prove that the Gov and other orgs figures are wrong.

And if the papers thought they were wrong, surely the ones I've read would report that!!

(V): ***Just in your case I would imagine you'd have to go through alot of hoo haa to get it sorted and lose money in the process.***

no hoo haa to go through here....if something is broken I get the proper person to fix it and I PAY FOR IT.....I don't live under priveledged, I own my spot on this earth.

Pedro Martínez: I agree with you....I was talking about something quite remote from what Jules was trying to change the subject to.......

Murder in the suburbs/schools, not children bullying, but I will stop now because he cant see past the end of his own street.
...........subject closed............

(V): But Rome was not built over night!!

You expect perfection, you expect things to fixed in 5 seconds flat.

Unrealistic.



My how your opinions seem to vary based on the circumstances....

Those are some of the exact same messages I have tried to use in regards to Iraq.... where you and many others have consistently over the years have complained how the US has made Iraq worse, and "where is this so called wonderful democracy" in Iraq etc etc.... I have always maintained that some things take time, even decades to change, and sometimes they get worse before they get better, and that the Iraqi people will not see, feel or appreciate (many of them) their new democracy (or democratic ways) for a generation or two.

But for you and your like minded buddies, its always been naysaying naysaying naysaying..... just try to remember..... Rome was not built overnight

Bernice: Own it. borrowing it.

Czuch: Czuch.... I you remember my concerns with Iraq, off the reconstruction it was because of the lack of a plan.. which your Government of the time freely admits from what I remember. And if you feel it'll take decades for Iraq to be stable, then I feel sorry for the troops who will die from the lack of planning.

As the old saying goes "Victorious soldiers win first then go to battle, others just go to battle and hope to win." (paraphrased as I can't remember the exact wording )

Also one of my concerns was the need, I find it strange that Bin Laden and the Taliban did not get the attention Iraq got in terms of troops and logistics. That war would probably be over now, the one to get those who planned and executed 911!!!!

And if you feel things take time, then give your current Admin more time, unless you feel that they are wrong and their plans just won't work, or are ill thought out.

But.. the current feeling in the EU is that it'll be some time before we see daylight from this recession.

(V): unless you feel that they are wrong and their plans just won't work, or are ill thought out.


I think they are ill thought out really....

If you print me a million dollars, I am sure that I can manage to work things out for a few years


Sure we can pump trillions of dollars into the economy and sure that will make things better, at least in the short term (several years maybe) But then what? You might say it is just a shot in the arm, to keep us going until things turn around? All good, except that things will turn around on their own anyway, and without putting us in debt and turning the autos and the banks and the health etc, all over for the government to run.


I love to listen to the people who always complained about the lack of federal response to Katrina and other complaints about the federal government. Yet those are the same people who would willingly put so much more responsibility into the hands of the very same federal government?

Reagan said it best.... the government cant solve our problems, they are the problem!

I think that in 50 years it will be the same argument about this recession, and how it was handled, as the great depression is today.

Nobody today can agree if it was the government stimulus, or if that really made it actually take longer to recover than doing nothing?

Czuch: I think a lot of government systems need..... .... tweaking. And I'm being very understated there!!

As to Katrina... I'm sorry, but your emergency response system seems to have too much red tape. If I get the gist of the delay right.

I don't think the government is the problem.. It's the politics involved that are causing the problem. Too much bickering, worrying about getting re-elected, etc, etc....

As to in 50 years time... it'll be part of history.. as you say.. it will be talked about

(V): I don't think the government is the problem.. It's the politics involved that are causing the problem. Too much bickering, worrying about getting re-elected, etc, etc....

I'm sorry, but your emergency response system seems to have too much red tape.




Government is politics, and the red tape intertwined into the emergency response system, that is also systemic of the government. The whole government has too much red tape and other pitfalls..... look at our IRS tax codes etc.... Thats exactly what you will get when the government runs our autos and our health and anything else they run

There is no reason for me to believe they will be any better at doing these things than they are at the FEMA (federal emergency management agency) or most anything else they currently run right now.

(V): In both parties. I'm sick of the Republicans as much as the Democrats.

Czuch: No, that's what we've allowed it to become. It's time our Governments were fully audited.

And I want Alan Sugar to go over and re-organise the Government here.

As recently reported over here, our 'leaders' have been taking the mickey (again another word is better but PG rating. ) over expenses. It makes me sick that they have been living on the gravy train whilst people are struggling ... But a full report is in place.. Something certain politicians don't want, but the opposition parties as well as members of the Labour party are behind the review.

I mean, an MP rips off the country for over £200k and only has to pay back less then £50k... That's not right!!

Artful Dodger: It's not only them.. it's the civil servants as well that help keep it going.

Czuch: Yep. I saw those anti-gay Christians on the news yesterday along with the news of the list.

Their website is so crazy... baroque, inaccurate...

And they reserve the right to not respond to emails from those they consider "not learned".

I'll see if they reply to my polite but frank point on that they seem to have forgotten certain core elements from the Bible.

Dear Americans! Stop using obscene Delaware trusts and hide your money in good old Switzerland!

Let me recommend the UBS, this ssolid bank with exellent connections to the Republicans.


(kill it pls, a matter of entertainment

your thoughts on Euthanasia?

Bernice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya_uJHdOtdc

Pedro Martínez: hahahaha...........youth in asia ROFLMBO

Pedro Martínez: Please don't post anymore links like that. I peed my pants!

Artful Dodger: ROFL........so did I....so nice to have a bit of levity hahahahahha

Bernice: I'll never be able to go to an Asian doctor again!

Artful Dodger: Actually, there's more. The "Youth in Asia" was only a part of a discussion on medical ethics. Diapers on!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UST26RjBXvo&feature=related

Pedro Martínez: that is just too funny ..........

Amazing

Was a bit rude the obscene Delaware trust, wasn't it? Seems interesting these Anglo-Saxon trust thing anyway. Is or should a Delaware Trust be reserved to (wealthy) Americans btw?

Ok let's try a voyaging coffee bean from South America to London. The passport of the bean gets stamped on several different sweet tax havens, cool islands under British control. It makes your cup of coffee cost about awful 70pc more. You know it can be traded differently, and your first thought is that you'd be willing to pay your taxes with these unjustified 70pc. Ever somebody asked Gordon Brown about? But hey, ok, I have nothing to do with it! I even don't know if you ever saw fair traded coffee. It costs about 15pc more than 'conventional' one, allowes sustainable farming and the worker a better life.

So no, I rather use this board for personal purpose. Down with the UBs, arguing should do it IMO.

HUH???

are a disgrace
some of the things leaked are crazy
horse manure
tampons for a male mp
broken toilet seat

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8039273.stm

TheCrazyPuppy: Yes, they are... But it's gonna happen for all parties thank EL!!

Because in truth, this scandal has been going on for decades. Really it's UK MP expenses. Also, the simple fact remains... how can we have faith in any MP that has abused the system of expenses, or uses that now boring cry "I acted within the rules".. The rules were slack.

In a company, the person cheating the company would get sacked... But MP's are a different breed!!

(V): it beggars belief what some of the claims have been

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5293320/MPs-expenses-A-Z.html


on the day up in my area 3000 are to lose there jobs because Chorus lost a major contract and are moth balling one of there blast furnaces
this news hasnt gone down well at all here

TheCrazyPuppy: Should be out of their own pocket!! It's taking the mickey!!!!!!

(V): if i made claims like this in a job i be shown door very quickly

but this goes to the very top of goverment the Prime Minister himself abusing the system so what confidence does the normal Joe public have in him now


lastest news is http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1178516/Police-called-investigate-leak-MPs-expenses-dossier.html


it dosnt matter how it was leaked we have has tax payers the right to know
so why waste even more tax payers money by calling in the police

TheCrazyPuppy: Why the police... because they are having a tantrum.

I recon the papers should all start petitions for a full audit for all MP's!!

(V):   Could you explain again the MPs?  Im too lazy at the moment to look it up but to me MP means military police? 

Artful Dodger: Member of Parliament

Pedro Martínez:Thanks, I gotta start paying attention  ;) 

Artful Dodger: !!!! one hundred lines... "MP = Member of Parliament"

(V): or maybe masters of perniciousness ;)

I'm a Libertarian now.

PU on the Republicans. Double PU on the Dems!

Artful Dodger: What about the greens??

GTCharlie:  PU on the environmentalists too.  ;)  May they all have a breakdown in their septic systems. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8047410.stm


over 100 grand already paid back

TheCrazyPuppy: Too right!! They are all getting afraid of losing their jobs. The MP's are starting to fear the people, and quite rightly too

(V):   I hope our Reps will start to fear the people as well.  Too many politicans are in it for themselves IMO.   Both sides of the isle.  I hate our two party system. 

Artful Dodger: The system is not perfect... Too much is now razzle dazzle rather then governing. Proportional representation is supposed to be a better system, yet it so long since I looked at the subject I've forgotten the pro's and con's.

And I hope your guys get to fear your people as well. Too many deals done where your reps line their pockets through various systems... or get jobs paying big bucks after they leave the world of politics.

It's no good for democracy.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8049614.stm


i hope that many many more heads will roll