Bernice: I am applying for British citizenship as we speak. Ahhh, those fair-skinned English ladies....

Ummm, I mean I will smoke & discuss politics with them. :o)

Bernice: Oh no, I didn't forget them. lol :o)

ScarletRose: Yes it did! You know I was being silly.... :o)

Bernice: That is a good point. But I am sinful creature. I must take pleasure in small things....smoke, coffee, and posting on politics boards.

Bernice: A primitive mating ritual?

Bernice: I have to smoke. It's the only way I can think up liberal ideas. lol :o)

ScarletRose: :o) Your grand daddy had the better idea. And I learned from experience (in my younger days) not to mix 'those' two kinds of tobacco in one pipe.

I need a smoke.

Ahhhh....better. Where were we?

ScarletRose: I smoke "1Q" from Lane Limited. It goes by all different kinds of names in tobacco shops....I've seen it called Gold Dust & Golden Slipper in Georgia, Stardust in Alaska, etc. It's fairly mild compared to many tobaccos.

ScarletRose: Ok, I'll send you mine. You'll notice a stud at the window smoking a pipe. :o)

Artful Dodger: Thanks. Ok, I should warn you I've had a lot of practice with this weapon in video games. Many a foe have I slain!

The political context is...uh...maybe Scarlet will explain it to us. lol

Artful Dodger: Ummm...the code didn't work. (gulp) Can I borrow your sword?

Artful Dodger: LOL. Ok, take that *84* and that *84* !

ScarletRose: Ummmm....my address or Czuch's? Or both? Or neither? lol

Artful Dodger: :o)

Czuch: This is one little girl who wouldn't mind squaring off with you, face-to-face. We're about the same age. Just be sure to bring your life savings...

Bully-types are the same everywhere. They kick the weak, and presume kindness to be weakness. Inwardly they are cowards, as I've learned time & time again.

--Madeline Albright has acknowledged the fact that 500,000 children have died as a direct result of U.S. bombings and sanctions. She stated, during a television interview with Barbara Walters, in reference to the half a million dead Iraqi children that, "It's a tough price to pay, but we think it's worth it". That's really nice to hear. We think it's worth it. We think it is worth it to kill 500,000 children who have nothing to do with the crimes of Saddam Hussein. Deliberately inflicting on a group, conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction is the legal definition of genocide. Madeline Albright has publicly stated that this is what the United States is doing.--

This is also why I am not a Democrat. Bush's foreign policy is a more direct approach to genocide, but little more effective for all that. What Dems fail to recognize is that the politicians in America act out a Good-Guy/Bad-Guy farce for the people while in reality they have the same murderous agenda & work for the same murderers. Now Obama is picking up right where Bush left off.

The U.S. Government strips our liberties at home.

The Patriot Act:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/09/26/patriot.act/index.html

The Military Commissions Act of 2006:

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/commentary/20060926_huq.html

Btw, the hunt for "terrorists" today is like the hunt for "witches" in the Middle Ages. And the hunters today are the modern Inquisitors. Like those of old, they always ensure that the real criminals go free. :o)

They have enough socialism to care for the less fortunate and enough capitalism to provide opportunity for others. That's a great mix. Besides, their babes are out of this world....

Czuch: That's very original advice, by the way. I've only heard it coming from the mouths of every rightwing talk show pundit in recent memory. You are some free thinker...

Czuch: For moving expenses, I mean, so I can leave this country that disappoints me so much, per your sage advice.

Czuch: Believe me, if I could afford it, I'd move. You want to donate something to me out of the goodness of your charitable heart? lol

Czuch: I take no particular pride in the U.S.A. being the most powerful country in the world. Considering how we use our power, I'm frankly ashamed of it. I WOULD take pride if we the Best country...which we are not.

"Situational analysis of poverty and poverty-related health problems in the USA Human poverty index.

As we can see in the following graph [see link below], of 17 industrialized countries the US has the highest level of poverty. It also has the widest income disparity and the highest rate of child mortality.

Although child mortality in industrialized countries tends to be much lower than in poor countries, some rich countries have substantially more child deaths than others. America takes the lead.

Poverty as a determinant of poor health.

On observing the above graphs, note that poverty and child mortality rates tend to correlate closely. In terms of overall well-being, Sweden is one of the world leaders, with both poverty and child mortality rates at half those of the United States. But why? Sweden has one of the world's most comprehensive public welfare systems, based on strong political commitment to meeting all people's basic needs and assuring a decent quality of life. This commitment is sustained through high progressive taxation.

In the US, poverty rates for vulnerable group--notably children and single-mother households--are worse than in other industrialized countries. This is partly explained by the nation's huge--and growing--income disparity. Today 1 of every 4 American children lives below the poverty line. In the North, this high rate is matched only by the former Soviet Union."

http://www.healthwrights.org/articles/geneva/geneva1.htm


Child mortality rates....in other words, death. Also see my post from last night, the results of a CDC study.

On the other hand, Sweden takes care of its people. There's the "one example" of "successful socialism" that some have been demanding.

The U.S. surely is the world's number 1 country, in terms of wealth & power. But whoever is not aware how low it ranks in health care, education, and some other crucial indicators, compared to other industrialized nations, simply does not want to be aware.

Tuesday: Very well put.

North Tower employee Teresa Veliz: [47th floor] “[T]he whole building shook. . . . the building shook again, this time even more violently….There were explosions going off everywhere. I was convinced that there were bombs planted all over the place and someone was sitting at a control panel pushing detonator buttons. . . . There was another explosion. And another. I didn't know where to run."

NBC television (from tapes recorded on 9/11 involving firefighters in the south tower):
Official: “Battalion 3 to dispatch, we've just had another explosion.”
Official: “Battalion 3 to dispatch, we've had additional explosion.”
Dispatcher: “Received battalion command. Additional explosion.”

Firefighter Louie Cacchioli: “[H]ow could this be happening so quickly [elevator doors blown out in north tower lobby] if a plane hit way above?” On 24th floor, “[we] heard this huge explosion that sounded like a bomb [and] knocked off the lights and stalled the elevator." Then, “another huge explosion like the first one hits. This one hits about two minutes later . . . [and] I'm thinking, "Oh. My God, these bastards put bombs in here like they did in 1993!"

BBC Correspondent Steve Evans: "I was at the base of the second tower . . . that was hit. . . . There was an explosion. . . . The base of the building shook. . . . [T]hen there was a series of explosions."

NJ Fire Police Dept. Officer Sue Keane: [south tower] "[I]t sounded like bombs going off. That's when the explosions happened. . . . I knew something was going to happen. . . . It started to get dark, then all of a sudden there was this massive explosion." [north tower] "[There was] another explosion. That sent me and the two firefighters down the stairs. . . . I can't tell you how many times I got banged around. Each one of those explosions picked me up and threw me. . . . There was another explosion, and I got thrown with two firefighters out onto the street."

Paramedic Kevin Darnowski: "I started walking back up towards Vesey Street. I heard three explosions, and then we heard like groaning and grinding, and tower two started to come down."

Emergency Medical Technician Gregg Brady: "I heard 3 loud explosions. I look up and the north tower is coming down now."

Firefighter Thomas Turilli: [south tower] “[I]t almost sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight."

Firefighter Craig Carlsen: “[We] heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions. . . . We then realized the building started to come down."

(The 9/11 Oral Histories were recorded by the NYC Fire Dept. in December, 2001, but not published until 2005, after the NY Supreme Court ordered their release. The 9/11 Commission, although it published its Report in 2004, did have access to these records. Yet, none of these testimonies, nor prior testimonies, made it into the official report, nor did the official report hint at the existence of eye-witness accounts running counter to the official conspiracy theory.)

Artful Dodger:

Causes of Newborn Deaths

"Most newborn deaths could be prevented if women had access to basic health care such as; immunizations to protect expectant mothers and newborns against tetanus, skilled midwifery care during childbirth, timely and appropriate treatment of newborn infections, and proper attention to hygiene, warmth, and breastfeeding for new babies."

http://www.savethechildren.org/programs/health/saving-newborn-lives/rates.html

This article is admittedly discussing world-wide poverty, and not focused on the U.S. But the same principles apply. Proper health care saves lives. Lack of it results in deaths.

Now I also admit the website I have posted from here is biased. It is called "Save the Children," and naturally is biased in favor of doing just that. :o)

Artful Dodger:

"Although previous reports have documented that rates of low birthweight and intrauterine growth retardation are higher among infants of women living in poverty, the infant mortality risk among infants born to women with low incomes has not been characterized recently. To analyze the relation between parental low income and infant mortality, CDC analyzed data from the 1988 National Maternal and Infant Health Survey (NMIHS) (the most recent data available). This report presents the findings of the analysis and indicates that for women with household incomes below the poverty level * in 1988, the infant mortality rate was 60% higher and the postneonatal mortality rate was twice as high as those for women living above poverty level."

"An infant death was defined as the death of a live-born infant before his or her first birthday; a neonatal death, as the death of a live-born infant less than 28 days after birth; and a postneonatal death, as the death of a live-born infant 28-364 days after birth."

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00039818.htm

Artful Dodger: You are correct, the Bible has nothing directly to do with public policy. And thank goodness for that! May Church & State ever remain separated.

It is people who make public policy. Some of them are atheists, yes. My father was an atheist, and a fine man to boot. People, however, are influenced by any number of things. Christians are reportedly influenced by their sacred texts. I would assume, and hope, that the Bible would inspire those who honor it, to be moved by the same pity God is presented therein as being moved by, when they contribute to public policy making.

To me, a plea from pity is a very sound argument. It is basic human kindness. I believe there is a hard, cold edge to your viewpoint, if you can't see the soundness in it. I also believe such pity is more "adaptable" for the human species, in an evolutionary sense. It inspires behavior & interaction that will make our earth sustainable for generations to come. To the contrary, it is pitilessness, or disregard, and the policies enacted or neglected because of it, which most threaten our survival.

I realize that "socialism" is a dirty word to you. Perhaps you have a visceral reaction when you think it, speak it or read it. You have been enculturated, as we all are. In any case, the word doesn't offend me. Label my ideas (not really mine) as you please. You can call them Communist or Satanist for that matter. If they will save lives, they are pretty good ones.

Artful Dodger: Is the life of a child who dies for lack of health care as meaningless to you as the book in which you profess to believe? Or did I take those scriptures out of context? If so, in what context should I understand them?

I have not argued on this board for a replacement of capitalism with socialism. I have rather argued for a more effective, more just, more humane & equitable mixture of the two. You don't seem to understand, either, that our current system is closer to a mercantilist system than a true capitalist one, in many respects. But I can't get into that. Czuch would call it "babble" and you would call it "meaningless." Suffice to say, we have different perspectives & different values.

Ah...and I was hoping to sneak in here & make a couple of quick unchallenged posts. I have a screaming headache and I planned on meditating on Tuesday's new pic to ease the pain. lol :o)

Artful Dodger: It isn't meaningless to those who suffer from a lack of it.

"Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish."
-- Matthew 18:14

"I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh."
-- Ezekiel 36:26

...we have a nation which is spiritually on its last legs.

Artful Dodger:

"I'm still waiting for anyone to give a good example of where socialism has worked for the average man."

Hasn't one good example been discussed just today? In England, a national health care system protects the lives & health of all citizens. For the average joe, I would imagine life & health to be a good thing. Here in America, national health care is considered (by some) an evil, a form of "creeping socialism." As a result, many average joes & their families suffer, some even to the point of death. I would say the average joe is better off with a national health care system, whatever label you might choose to stigmatize it.

Czuch:

"dont sell yourself so short"

Sell myself short? Tuesday & (V) have plenty to teach me, and I'm all ears. They have plenty to teach you also, if you'd listen. Whether I and they agree in all particulars about all things is irrevelant. They are exceptionally enlightened. I took the liberty of going back over some of Tuesday's posts here before I resurfaced. I was impressed! Her words reveal a wisdom I frankly did not previously know she possessed. And what's more, she was standing tall in a furnace, going it alone. As for (V), he is a breath of fresh air. He demonstrates to me with every post great subtlety of mind & understanding, and, thank goodness, does not bring to the table a boxed message stamped "Made in the U.S.A" on the lid.

On the other hand, Czuch, you contend that there are "basically just two political philosophies, at least here in the US." You are mistaken, and to me such a notion indicates a rigidity of thinking hazardous to your mental health, somewhat in the way brainwashing is hazardous. I don't say this to insult you. It applies to us all, if we aren't careful, and to the extent that we allow our minds to be manipulated by those with the motive, means & opportunity to do so.

(V): Agreed, a fluid mind is even a prerequisite. Charles Finney, the 19th century revivalist, said (paraphrase): "True Christian consistency lies in modifying one's opinion as often and as quickly as new light comes, and in no case defending a belief which new facts demonstrate cannot be true." His views were somewhat controversial. :o)

Tuesday: You are right. I was thinking volume as well as quality. Jim Dandy & Anastasia always have very good things to say. :o)

It's nice to come on and see able defenders of what I consider to be a better understanding of the world & politics, not to mention a reflection of larger hearts. I mean the posts of (V) and Tuesday. You guys are awesome. Keep it up! :o)

(V): "...a certain amount of living is required before certain aspects of Judaism can be taught. For to try to teach before hand would be like planting a seed in barren soil."

That is an excellent point. And it presupposes something else, that the first 40 years weren't spent in a stupor, but rather that the mind had been daily exercised through broad study and contemplation. One man I know says that trying to discuss politics with most of his fellow Americans is a fruitless endeavor. Before any meaningful discussion can take place, he first recommends they spend 20 years reading every book they can get their hands on, from every political persuasion, right, left, and center, and couple that with study of history, philosophy, theology, etc., just whatever is needed to get some kind of handle on the real world. Then perhaps an intelligent discussion that may lead somewhere constructive might ensue. Needless to say, most don't appreciate his recommendation. :o)

(V): You see my point, about how many Americans think. It is so twisted, it is hard to unravel. And Fox News, the content of which you can now examine for yourself, gives you an indication why.

Czuch: lol Those are some interesting points of view you have. Ah well....experience teaches where knowledge is lacking.

(V): Add to that, that our major media are now owned by literally a half-dozen major corporations whose executives and major shareholders have a financial stake in not only distorting the reality of our predicament but also in omitting important news & facts which do not fit their agenda, and the result is that you have Americans thinking European countries are dangerously socialist while here, the poor are blamed for being poor & the system is praised for its "opportunity."

(V): It certainly stinks, and Corporate manslaughter is an accurate way to describe it. The government doesn't stand up to the lobbyists here because the lobbyists own the government. Many politicians move back and forth, from government jobs, to lobbying jobs, and vice versa. We are the richest country in the world, but that wealth is actually accumulated into relatively few hands. This trend has continued very strongly during the last 3 decades, so that, economically speaking, the Democrats are now to the right of where the Republicans used to be. The result is tragic for the working man.

Czuch: I was very impressed by it. You are a thinking man and you communicate well.

I would only say a couple of things, that I hope you will think about and perhaps research, in time.

A lot of the poverty that you saw in the rest of the world stems from the neo-colonialism of exploitation from the Western powers. America is now the strongest neo-colonial power in the world. There are no working standards or protections at all there. That's why our companies build there, and employ child labor, etc. We also destroy democratic movements (it is one of the missions of the CIA), replace them with strong men who benefit personally by our removal of the natural resources of the countries in question.

The other thing I would say is, I believe that other nations see America more truly than we see ourselves. They are those who are impacted by our foreign policiy They do not believe that we are spreading freedom or building democracy. They see that those countries we oversee become poorer & more politically corrupt, for the most part. We have overseen the countries of Central America for ages now, for an example. We've done some truly terrible things there.

What people in other countries may misunderstand, however, is that the American people themselves do not perceive their country as corrupt, as you rightly said. They feel we are doing good in the world. If they didn't, they would demand things change. The hard part, from my perspective, is getting the American people to see what a bad world citizen our nation has become. As an American, I feel that to be my duty, as unpopular & unthankful a task as it is.

(V): A living wage being one you can afford to live on decently, we have no guarantee of that here. It certainly isn't written into any laws, nor does the government seek to force companies to pay more, since the unions were gutted by Reagan, etc. We do have what is called a "minimum wage," which stands at $7.25 an hour, I think, or something close to it. But let's assume two parents are working for minimum wage...that simply doesn't cut it, and by a long shot.

We also have a small tax credit for children, which some receive once each year at tax time. Sure it helps, but not much. What we don't have, that you do (unless I am mistaken) is national health coverage. Many millions in the U.S.A. don't have insurance. They are one accident or illness removed from the kind of debt it is very hard, sometimes impossible, to recover from. Not to mention that, having no insurance, the care itself will be substandard for an long-term ailment.

You speak of the stupid bankers. It is the same here. In fact, the bankers in England & the bankers in the U.S.A. are often the same people! Laws are always going in effect to protect the bankers here, rarely if ever the citizens. And the credit card companies, etc. That's why I'm not a Democrat, though I spend more time here debating Republicans. For example, our new Vice President, while a senator, pushed credit card laws through giving the companies more power to raise interest rates without reason, etc.

We have no cash incentives based on savings, at least not built into the government system. My brother spent some time in Germany in the '80s, said at that time the poor were much better off than the poor here. No one was destitute. Here, we have homeless veterans living on the streets, etc.

Czuch: Trying to convince you of this self-evident truth is like trying to tell you what's behind a door you refuse to open. There simply is no way. But all doors are opened eventually, often from the other side.

Czuch: Speak of the devil. :o)

Give it a bit more time....opportunity slips away as we speak...

Tuesday: I found that verse in the Bible. It is in 1st Czuch, Chapter 8, verse 9.

Tuesday: According to Sam. He says selfishness is the key to the Kingdom. Just look (he tells me) at how God blesses the selfish on Earth!

Tuesday: Just got back from talking with Sam. He says all the liberals are in forced labor in hell to make up for their laziness on earth. The conservatives are busy in heaven carving pieces of gold out of the streets & prying jewels from walls. Now I know.

Tuesday: That's information I could use. I'll ask him. lol