Tuesday: True... But luckily the plane and artillery were not available, nor a true machine gun as was used in WWII. The land grabbers and their government lapdogs would undoubtedly made use of such.

Iamon lyme: I see Christians sending $ in for a place in heaven. This, is called security by some who believe in a 'gothic' heaven and hell.

"Not so meaningless"

That's twisting, one man's freedom, security and idea of prosperity is relative. You guys in America feel you need to own a gun.. I can understand that, but that can turn into insecurity and a cage where a person feels they need a small arsenal to protect them from "big bad wolf" government.

"people who are willing (not coerced) to purchase."

Oh please.. Businesses are quite adept at manipulating concious and unconscious thought processes.. Both the God and the Little DeViL within. They did want to use subliminals at one time.. banned.

"Are these the 'greedy' people you are talking to"

Bankers, Health companies, Purity makers and those exploiting Christians... Including the 'righteous' conservative preachers who always seem to have alot of bling!! The car manufacturers who asked a "willing" Nixon to delay the law on compulsory seatbelts so they could make a few more bucks at the expense of people dying in American made cars unnecessarily.

"Government exists on money they take from people.."

Yes. Somethings private enterprise just can't be trusted to run things.

"When government becomes so powerful it can take more money than it needs to administer its duty to the people who support it where hard working people have difficulty supporting themselves because of that drain."

Well you guys let the rich get richer and you hard workers pay for their tax cuts. It ain't Joe the plumber who reaps the benefit from tax cuts for the rich.. maybe a few illegal immigrant workers below the radar.. more likely.

.. And yes we get greedy people in government. They are only human. It's funny that we think 'officials' have to be saints but our CEO's can be gangsters.. eg Rupert Murdoch.

Iamon lyme: Our government could take in a lot more in taxes than they will get from overburdoning businesses by simply allowing, and yes maybe even encouraging, private enterprise to grow and expand. When more businesses are establised and currently running businesses are allowed to grow the net result is more taxable income is created. Government creating jobs compared to what a private ecomony is able to do when left alone is joke. I don't know any economist whos income isn't dependant on political concerns and is free to say exactly how this all works who doesn't understand this.. but then, I don't know any economists whos income isn't dependant on bla bla bla bla bla.

(V): Not so meaningless to someone who hasn't always enjoyed living in relative freedom, security, and prosperity. If these are simply abstract concepts for you, then you don't understand their importance. Private enterprise exists to provide goods and services to people who are willing (not coerced) to purchase, with money they have made working for some other enterprise. Are these the 'greedy' people you are talking to? Government exists on money they take from people who actually produce and provide the goods and services other people are willing to (not coerced into) paying for. When government becomes so powerful it can take more money than it needs to administer its duty to the people who support it, to the point where hard working people have difficulty supporting themselves because of that drain, then who exactly are you saying is being greedy for the money they didn't earn?

Iamon lyme: You mean it can. Just as private industry can cause a recession if there is no government to stop the greedy so and so's abusing the trust the public is told is implicit by the nature of the institution.

Regarding the view of economists.. Some say that when the economy is booming, governments should be scrimping... when the economy is busting the government should be spending to support the economic structure of the country.

Why.. because in the end if a government spends to create jobs the private industry cannot, it will get back a fair proportion in taxes, whilst all those jobbed people and businesses will take their cut.

"it actually takes to insure freedom, security, and prosperity."

These are relative concepts.. meaningless except in general terms, to general to mean anything unless a person describes explicitly their view on what such means.

Eg .. prosperity or part of this year is my tomato plants. 6 varieties... basil and salad growing as well from my freedom to choose to grow them. Security is keeping Slugs and snails away... The mint growing wild distracts them acting as a plant shield...N' smells and tastes great

Übergeek 바둑이: No, it's not what you said, but even in your response it does seem to be what you are implying. The problem I have with liberalism is that it is anything but liberating. I used to be bothered by how the lefts story will change to benefit themselves in the short run, but now I'm more bothered by what that tactic actually implies.. it means they are more focused on party loyalty than on what it actually takes to insure freedom, security, and prosperity. Those are not givens, and just because most of us have grown up and benefited from those things doesn't mean they are universal principles or laws that just naturally occur. It took time and effort to get these things, but they can just easily be lost or thrown away. It's like the song that says, "You don't know what you got till it's gone." (V) says hey, it takes time for economic recovery to happen. Well, yeah, especially when governmental intervention actually causes economic recovery to stall out or even reverse itself.

Tuesday: Aye.. it's not nice history. Cities being bombed, firestorms. We had a TV series years ago based on the efforts of those who disarmed unexploded bombs which was a common event in WWII. People in London basically slept in shelters or the underground during the blitz. Then afterwards all the various nationalist groups seeking Identity and recognition led to decades of terrorist bombings throughout Europe.

I don't think many in America quite understand how bloody war is in this day and age. N' why so many joined the likes of the CND when boys starting showing off their new toy nuclear bombs. As a civilian population you guys have not experienced war except for those who have emigrated from countries hit by full scale war.

Tuesday: Some memories when you go back into them you relive them, including the feelings and emotion of being that young age. The inaccurate bombing techniques required 1000's of bombs to be dropped in one raid. Those times were really nasty for the civilian populations in the UK and Europe regarding the bombing.

Tuesday: It's not a time to want to remember... I don't think you guys in America quite understand what the war was like in some respects. Your military saw it, but you as citizens did not live it.

Artful Dodger: So I see it is with you.. is this a competition anyone can join in?

Tuesday: I noticed over a years worth of your messages are gone. hmmmmmmmm

A conservitive woman gets called a "sl.." in the blogosphere and the feminists say NOTHING. All sorts of vile things are said of Sarah Palin and the feminists again are silent. But Debbid Wasserman Schultz is told to "shut the heck up" and the radical feminists come unglued and are raising hell over it.

A conservative woman can get called any vile name and the left is silent. A liberal woman is looked at funny and the libs are all over themselves objecting and calling for apologies and resignations....pathetic group.

.. Like we have history?

.... as in we have better education?

The US does NOT want to turn out like Europe.

Birmingham Business Park is a business park operated by Goodman, an Australian property group, situated in the borough of Solihull, West Midlands of England, about 9 miles east of Birmingham city centre.

Current residents of the business park include Orange, Beiersdorf, Hewlett Packard and Fujitsu.[1]

The park lies close to the depressed district of Chelmsley Wood, part of a 'regeneration zone'. According to Richard Cutler, Goodman's director of strategy, 78 per cent of workers at the park are not residents of the zone.[2]
[edit] See also

Goodman UK

Artful Dodger: Pure Conservative... please, such policies have been used by Conservative and Labour councils here for years regarding the state paying for companies to hire. IE the local government is subsidising business.

.. But.. when it came to saving the car industries it was a bad thing?

I see contradiction here!!

Obama is a failure because his ideas and policies are utter failures. They will never work. They won't work under a Republican, Libertarian, or Democrat. However, Take a peek at what pure conservative ideas and policies will do for a State. More States will copy this. Those that don't, will look like California and worse, Illinois.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dmqC3611Ks&feature=player_embedded

Iamon lyme:

> In a world without absolutes, you are absolutely correct. There is no difference between Obamas presidency and Bushes. It's all the same. No difference at all.

That is not what I said. I pointed to the fact that the political system has become stuck. Presidents can try to change things, but the entire Congress/Senate system has made it impossible to do so. Obama might have come in with great expectations, only to be stuck in the same old game of bipartisan politics, special interests, lobbying, corporate power, etc.

Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans can be expected to change anything because they both benefit from things as they are. Both represent corporate wealth and power. The working class counts only when it is election time and it is necessary to make promises to win votes. The rest of the time it is all about benefits for the rich and powerful and bailing the rich when their greed gets the better of them. Both parties are stuck in supply side economics (Reaganomics, Trickle-down economics or whatever one choses to call it).

Well, in a few years China will be the world's largest economy. China will slowly erode American power while both parties squabble over tax breaks for the rich. China continues to rise while both parties paralize the government over tax breaks for the rich.

OMG.. you guys on the right think economic policies are overcome, changed, their effects dissolved in just a few years.



Please.. you are still feeling the effects of policies made decades ago, but as such policies were made by Republican loons I guess it's blinkers time.

Übergeek 바둑이: In a world without absolutes, you are absolutely correct. There is no difference between Obamas presidency and Bushes. It's all the same. No difference at all.

rod03801: True. The Minnesota State Bird (after the mosquito) - My home state!

Artful Dodger: Come on now, Loons are beautiful birds! What did they ever do to YOU?

Übergeek 바둑이: Stop it with Bush. Obama owns this economy. He had two years with full house and senate and he did nothing. His stimulus failed. None of his economic policies have succeeded. And yet he keeps driving the economy down down down and libs like you offer excuses, excuses, excuses.

He promised a different Washington but delivered the same old same old. No transparency as promised, no jobs as promised, it's business as usual.

I'm willing to criticize any Republicans when they don't live up to Conservative principles. There's no praise for left wing loons. They are anti Americans and deserve only contempt.

Artful Dodger: Even you have admitted there is a strong influence through the lobbying system.

Guess what.... it's there whoever is in power!!

To make out Republicans don't take bribes or reward friends is pure absolute drivel.

Artful Dodger:

> you are deluded.

I am deluded. Then you must be a hypocrite for not admitting that Republicans do exaclty the same. I am sure there is no cronyism and nepotism among Republicans. They are all squeaky clean.

Artful Dodger:

With respect to that chart, what does the Helath Care Reform Bill have to do with private sector employment? Show me a chart that shows employment in the healthcare field alone, both private and public separetely. Then we will see a true correlation. Otherwise you are just showing a stalling in job creation. Of course, unemployment went from 5% to almost 10% under the Bush administration. It was teh Bush administration that took a booming economy and a surplus, and turned it into a recession and a deficit. Obama can only be blamed for not being able to fix a mess that probably nobody could fix. In the end, what have Republicans done to fix the mess, other than criticize the president and propose tax cuts for the rich?

Übergeek 바둑이: you are deluded.

Artful Dodger:

> hahaha, you are so predictable. And you can't find the honesty to criticize Obama.

When Obama first came up with the "change" thing I knew it was wishful thinking because the bureacratic system of the US makes it impossible to change anything. A long time ago I posted that while Obama's desire to reform healthcare was well intentioned, the approach was completely wrong.

In fairness to Obama, Republicans have done everyhting in their power to make sure that he fails. Republicans have sunk as low as they could to ruin his presidency, and they have suceeded. Obama's failure is not in not delivering his promises, but in failing to stop Republicans from working for the benefit of the rich at the expense of the middle class.

In reality, the problem is not the Obama administration which inherited a real mess from the Bush administration. The real problem is that Americans insist on electing the same nicompoops into office. Any American who thinks that Sarah Palin or some similar right winger will change things is in for a big disappointment. Sarah Palin (like Obama) might pretend to be against elitism and the old establishment . Yet when she rises to the top, the first thing she will do is integrate herself into the system and become the elite and the old establishment herself. It is what has happened to every American president pretending to change or improve things.

In the end, both political parties are the same and when the time to really prove that they were different arose, they were quite happy to join forces for the benefit of the rich and powerful. i am talking of the bailouts for banks and car makers, which were a Bush initiative and were supported by both parties.

In the end, the United States reduces itself to a two-party pseudodemocracy. People are free to vote, but power ends up in the hands of the same elitist groups. Those who want to rise to the elite merely have to convince the public that they want to change or improve things. Once at the top, they merely become a part of the elite. Obama is guilty of this, and any Republican (Tea Partier or not) will be exactly the same.

As long as the public has enough money for Walmart and MacDonalds nothing will change and people will continue to vote blindly for the same nicompoops. It is like Allen West. It did not even bothered you that he tortured a man and was force to leave the military dishonorably. You put the man forth as somebody who really did good defending himself from Wasserman Schultz, without even wondering what kind of man he really is. It is that lack of scrutiny that allows the worst kind of people to rise to the top.

When Obama was elected I knew that he would fail. I just underestimated how badly he would fail, and I also underestimated how low the Republicans would go to ruin his presidency.

Übergeek 바둑이: hahaha, you are so predictable. And you can't find the honesty to criticize Obama.

Artful Dodger:

> The post was about Obama. YOu libs always like to Bring up Bush.

I am getting at the fact that you love to point the finger at Obama, and are incapable of doing so with your own political party.

Report: Private sector job creation ground to a halt almost instantly after Obamacare passed

A new report out yesterday from The Heritage Foundation shows private sector job creation dropped dramatically almost immediately after President Barack Obama signed the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (a.k.a. Obamacare) into law.

[Obama has] never really worked a day outside the political or legal area. He doesn't know how to make a payroll, he doesn't understand the problems businesses face. I would try to explain that the plight of the busi nessman is very reactive to Washington. As Washington piles on regulations and mandates, the impact is tremendous. I don't think he's a bad guy. I just think he has no knowledge of this.

Home Depot founder Bernie Marcus did not mince words speaking with Investor's Business Daily:


Having built a small business into a big one, I can tell you that today the impediments that the government imposes are impossible to deal with. Home Depot would never have succeeded if we'd tried to start it today. Every day you see rules and regulations from a group of Washington bureaucrats who know nothing about running a business. And I mean every day. It's become stifling.

If you're a small businessman, the only way to deal with it is to work harder, put in more hours, and let people go. When you consider that something like 70% of the American people work for small businesses, you are talking about a big economic impact.

Übergeek 바둑이: Of course they did. But Bush hasn't been in office for what, three years now.

The post was about Obama. YOu libs always like to Bring up Bush.

Artful Dodger:

> Nearly half of the top level of Obama campaign bundlers have been rewarded with some sort of role within the government.

And the Bush administration did not? I don't see you pointing the finger to the Republicans.

President Obama’s Executive Order on Ethics Commitments for Executive Branch Personnel:


Employment Qualification Commitment. I agree that any hiring or other employment decisions I make will be based on the candidate’s qualifications, competence, and experience.

Apparently when you are the boss you aren’t required to follow your own rules.

These top fundraisers are known as “bundlers”. Since campaign finance laws restrict any one individual from donating more than $2400 to a single candidate, these bundlers achieve prominence within a campaign by soliciting for and then – you guessed it – bundling up individual donations received via their extended network of friends, family, business contacts, etc. While exact figures are not available, the top bundlers within the Obama campaign each delivered in excess of $1 million in campaign contributions, and there were nearly 50 bundlers who were responsible for at least $500K in donations.

As the Times notes, it’s somewhat of a Washington tradition for an incoming President to appoint choice ambassadorships to key political donors and allies. While this may be the case, for a President who declared a “new era” of accountability, and who championed ethics reform while in the Senate, a look at the appointments made to date reveals what I think is a surprising level of cronyism on the part of this Administration. And notably, many of these appointments extend outside the relatively ceremonial realm of diplomatic posts.

What sort of positions are they talking about? Just harmless ambassadorships?


Special Counsel to the President
Chairman, FCC
General Counsel, Dept. of Energy
Deputy Asst. Attorney General
Associate Attorney General
Under-Secy. for International Trade
Chairman, Corp. for Nat’l & Community Service
Asst. Attorney General, Civil Div.

Nearly half of the top level of Obama campaign bundlers have been rewarded with some sort of role within the government.

And it gets worse:


Robert Wolf is the Chairman/CEO of investment bank UBS and given his influence on Wall Street may in fact be the largest bundler of them all. Significantly, Wolf’s firm seems to be mired in several tax-related scandals; and they were also a key counter-party recipient of funds from AIG, courtesy of the U.S. tax payer. However, apparently all this was not enough to deter the President from naming Wolf to his Economic Advisory Council.

According to various polls the worst President ever is Warren G. Harding (republican)

Why..

"President Harding rewarded friends and political contributors, referred to as the Ohio Gang, with financially powerful positions. Scandals and corruption eventually pervaded his administration; one of his own cabinet and several of his appointees were eventually tried, convicted, and sent to prison for bribery or defrauding the federal government."

Übergeek 바둑이: Which (as one person here in the UK says) just leaves two sides squabbling like school kids in a playground. If both sides refuse to work with each other then for all accounts, it leaves America in a state of civil war.

rod03801:

> WORST president ever. I adamantly HATE him. EVERYthing about him.

Funny thing is, that is what a lot of people said about George W. Bush. I suppose that what goes around comes around.

Well, American politics has become radicalized over the years. There are two camps: the "Left" (which are the center-right wing liberal Democrats) and the "Right" (which are the religious right wing conservatives as embodied in the Republican party). Ove the decades both parties have come to monopolize political power. They are constatnly at each other's throats, to the point that the government is paralized, incapable of achieving much and incapable of changing.

A multiple murderer who went on the rampage after the 9/11 attacks, killing two people he thought were Arabs, has been executed in the US state of Texas.

Mark Stroman, 41, died by lethal injection despite last-minute representations by his lawyer at the US Supreme Court.

In his final weeks Stroman's plea for clemency was backed by Rais Bhuiyan, who was shot but survived. Mr Bhuiyan had said that killing Stroman was "not the solution".... ....Speaking to the BBC before Stroman's execution, Mr Bhuiyan, 37, said Stroman was guilty of "hate crime", but warned that his death would not achieve anything.

"His execution will not eradicate hate crimes from this world. We will just simply lose another human life," Mr Bhuiyan said.

...Stroman admitted the killings, saying he was motivated by anger at the 9/11 attacks and wanted to take revenge on Muslims - or people who resembled Muslims.

"I had some poor upbringing and I grabbed a hold of some ideas which was ignorance, you know, and hate is pure ignorance. I no longer want to be like hate, I want to be like me," he told the BBC.

rod03801: That makes two of us. He's played this debt ceiling problem right down to the wire so that he could create a crisis over it and then turn it on the republicians. He wants MORE money from the American people and he refuses to use economic policies that have worked in the past all the while insisting that we adopt all the failed policies of the past. He's anti American.