I second Walter Montego as a moderator of the Gothic board.He is a good moderator and there are no "anti-Gothic Chess" remarks,only "anti-patent" remarks.
A patent of a game,which would not be allowed here in Europe.
Edtrice:"People contacted me after your "anti-patent" posts".
How many people? Two or three?

To answer your question Walter, on why Ed doesn't moderate the board could be due to peeps not really giving themselves a chance to know Ed on a more personal level.. Some are so intimidated by his posts and his level of intelligence that they simply shy away, or gang up on him.. A while back Ed Tried to help this site.. peeps took it as though he was wanting to take control of it.. He actually ended up losing quite a bit of money due to the outcome.

Peeps assumed by his posts.. that he was a real monster because at the time he was also aware of wrong doings of the KM. Which was a group formed similar to the groups now with UE and Mastermind.. most people were tagging their names with KM (and it was a large group, I included) just to do it.. not knowing what actually was going on at the top of the KM.. When Ed commented that he was going to break down the cluster of KM's then of course.. he ended up getting a lot of peeps angry at him.. Cause they new the leader of the KM to be such a kind person.. Wanting to help others.. And offering friendship and advice.. While he and a few others managed to lure passwords out of others and do some not so nice things. It finally came out around a year ago.. So I don’t care to go into much more details.. But, since that incidence.. There HAS been biased opinions from most at the site towards Ed.. Which in turn when he tried to do the moderator position he would get down right attacked..

Now Granted.. I do not mean to say Ed wasn’t tempted to come down to everyone else’s level.. Cause he is only human.. And he did at times.. That is when I started chatting more with him.. Seeing his side of the playing field.. And I learned that I was one lucky gal to have pushed the feelings aside that were openly stated throughout the site and actually get to know who is he rather than cast judgment on him for his type written words.. I am glad to call him a great friend. I have learned he has a wonderful sense of humor, is very intelligent and very real.

So please.. Don’t nit pick and try to belittle him with this.. “Why aren’t you moderating this board?” BS..

I simply have a problem with Walter Montego's anti-Gothic Chess *patent* remarks. I think it's ridiculous that he is tolerated to continue doing so.. he should be removed as the moderator I feel. Isn't it double standard when a moderator nit picks to create a flame responce.. yet, is continually allowed to do so?

Especially when they end up hushing others or omitting posts..

edit remarks ~ *I put the Patent into it!* LOL

bwildman, I think you misinterpreted what I wrote in my clumsy style of writing about not being moderator any more in reference to a message I received from Thad. It is I that he was talking about not being moderator any more, not him. As far as I know he wants to be a moderator and hasn't said anything to me about resigning.

Not my game but when I see a lynch mob forming it is hard to keep silent.

pimple.
still no rating in gothic chess? care for a game? or are you just making yet another feeble attempt at humour? ;-)

Oh, Ed, could you direct me to these rulings? I'd certainly like to read them. If they prove that you're right about the patent and ownership of Gothic Chess, I'll be apologizing to you and anyone else that'll listen. If they're just court orders issued to subdue a person who then complied without fighting the orders that will not end my disagreement about it.
Until and if ever I decide to take more than a passing enterest in the whole affiar, I was mainly going to drop the subject except on the occasion of someone else posting to this board about the subject.

Walter...if Thad wants out as moderator...I dont blame him...its hard to work around your"say one thing do another" policies.
And your absolutly right...I wont moderate this board.my choice,remember?

I certainly will.
Since when was disagreeing with Ed against the law? I like this game that Ed calls "Gothic Chess". Disagreeing over the ownership of it is completely different than saying the game is a bad game and trying to stop its spread. If anything a controversy over things like this can make something newsworthy and help disseminate awareness of it.
Ed, you've had your chance at moderating this board. Twice! What happened? So you don't like me as moderator and are forced to go some other route to get me removed as I doubt a direct appeal from you to Fencer would have much effect. I've stopped posting my reservations about your patent and Bird's Chess, but I suppose you have to do what you have to do. You start a behind the scenes petition and then say it's my doing? Have it your way.

As for bwildman's question, we'll see how Thad responds, if he does. My first inclination when I saw it posted this morning was to delete it, but I figured I might as well let it stay and see what kind of responses it makes. I'll know where I and some others stand soon enough.

Walter,

People contacted me after your "anti-patent" posts. I am not going to put words into their mouths, nor am I going to inflame the situation. But if you think it was Bwilman that started this, you are incorrect. Some of the very same people who are not "Gothic Chess DB regulars" are the ones who expressed disgust that a MODERATOR of a discussion board was so vehemently opposed to the rulings of two United States Federal Courts upholding the validity of the patent.

How can you moderate something you are so opposed to? What is the source of your anger? Why don't you just step down?

As I understand it, a private petition for your removal was circulated by several PAYING MEMBERS of brainking.

As I read bwildman's post, all he did was ask a simple question. Perhaps whoever is spearheading the removal campaign has not been responsive to bwildman, so he took the next step and posted the question on here.

It seems like a very democratic thing to do and I see nothing wrong with it.

Shorty doesn't handle rejection well although he has had a ton of it. :P

You know, bwildman, after you mentioned this stuff in a game we have going, I contacted a few of the peole and they me. Thad mentioned to me about not being moderator any more, but as far as I can tell it is you that are starting the remove Walter campaign. As you seem to have missed noticing the discussion board has been on topic and without rudeness of late regardless of the conversation. If you're right that Thad or Ed wants me removed, let them deal with it. I think I've done all right as moderator, but I'm sure others can do it too.... Just not you.

how many votes and letters of discontent have you recieved to remove Walter as moderator and replace him with yourself?

Aloha Ed,

I do not own Gothic Vortex, but I do have two Macs. One is a Titanium Powerbook and the other is an older B&W G3. I would be happy to beta test anything for ya. I could easily set it up so you can see my screen in real-time from my website, etc. PM me for any other details, etc.

I read it too :)

Strong, strong. Worth checking out. Thanks, CC.

CHECK OUT Gothic Chess on Chessville's front page! For anyone who loves tactics this is an excellent article!

How many Gothic Vortex owners also have a Macintosh? I am just curious if anyone does. I started writing the Macintosh version today. This one will be the first with PGN support and the database linked to the gui.

Sometimes you need to clear your CACHE to get a proper display of the position. Depending on your browser, it may be in EDIT/PREFERENCES/ADVANCED SETING, CLEAR CACHE NOW or something similar.

After you do that, a refresh should work.

OK, but the features you consider balanced resemble the features of Gothic Chess that GothicInventor listed on 16. September 2004.

I most certainly did not just copy Mr. Trice in what I consider a balanced game. I have always considered my interupitation of a balanced game to be the same thing.

Lately when logging on I am unable to play my games because all the the squares have little boxed x in them and I do not know the position. What is the matter?

I like 1. d4 better than 1. f4 since the Bishop on c1 gets blocked by the f4 pawn.

So is 1.f4 in Gothic Chess as good as 1.e4 in regular chess?

The next Gothic Chess article for Chessville.com:

Tactical Artwork featuring some tactical combinations from games played on BrainKing, see if any of yours were shown.

Hi George,

I am looking over these games to see if I can reproduce the same behavior in Vortex. I can say this: it looks like the "Trojan Horse" sacrifice code needs some work. When a piece is situated so that a pawn capture would open up the j-file, it triggers search extending that occasionally finds "impossibly deep" mates, like mate in 20 or mate in 30, and most times a human can't see it.

I will examine that code.

Also, in Game 1, what do you think of 9...Nxg3+ instead of castling? Example:

9...Nxg3+ 10. Axg3 Bh4 11. Nh7+ Kg8 12. Nxj8 Bxg3 13. Nxi6 Bxe1 14. Qxe1 jxi6

Very heavy trading! Maybe 15. Qi5 Kh7 with an unclear position.

Here are 5 games i played with the Gothic Vortex 1.03 and a good book. I just played only with white pieces the 5 games, but i will play another set of 5 games with black. Both 5 games were at 30 second per move for G.V, while i had 25 minutes for 40 moves repeating (I added +5 minutes more that the "fair 20 minute/40moves = 30sec/move, because i've noticed that G.V at our games is using more than 30 seconds per move).
I won 4 games with an amazing way while in the 4th game when book worked i lost.

Game 1:
In this game G.V had a strange behaviour. See my notes. I won with a nice attack.

Game 2:
This game has an amazing mate combination i found at move 19, after a nice attacking game. After analysing it with G.V after the match, i indeed found it was the best move and according with G.V it was an unbelievable mate in 8! My attack was once again brilliant. The easiest game i played against G.V.

Game 3:
Perhaps the most amazing game i have played against G.V. In no other game i've ever made a positional Queen sacrifice!!! And the last mating combination is something that i really can't find words to describe it.
Simply brilliant.

Game 4:
I tried to develop in my normal way for an attack but the book destroyed my plans. G.V seemed to knew what i was going to do and played according it's book up to 7 when it played the damn Nd4!. I tried to adapt and play different but my position was not the best possible, i played some dubious moves so i lost with a nice tactic move by G.V.

Game 5:
This time i sacrificed "only" a Rook, for gaining time and trapping ArchiBishop to a1, while this time my hanging Knight wasn't captured, right this time, by G.V's h-Pawn. And alhough my King seemed very open to an attack it was me, with a nice attack that won.
-------------------------------------------

-----------------
Here are the games:

Game1:
Me Vs G.V 1.03
1. f2f4 Ni8h6
2. Ni1j3 Nb8c6
3. c2c3 g7g6
4. d2d4 d7d5
5. h2h3 Nh6f5
6. Ag1h2 h7h5!? (I think this is a good move by G.V and i didn't like it, since it caused me many problems in my attempt for an attack.)
7. g2g3 Bh8f6
8. Bh1f3 Ag8i6
9. Nj3i5 O-O
10. Ce1g2 Bf6g7
11. j2j4 j7j6
12. e2e3?! (Not the best i believe, but i thought the time was perfect to start my attack.)

12...Nf5h6 (Very bizzare?!?! G.V rejects my Knight offer! What it should be noted here is that after the game, when i capture the Knight for G.V, then it has a +300 score in favour of black. So if it thinks it is so good move move for black, why doesn't play it?)

13. Kf1f2 Bg7f6
14. h3h4 Ai6j5
15. Cg2i3?! (Removing the defender but not a good idea i think.)
15...Aj5xi3
16. Ah2xi3 Bc8xi2
17. Rj1j2 Bi2f5
18. Qd1i1 Qd8d6
19. Nb1d2 Nh6i4
20. Rj2j3 Qd6d7
21. Nd2f1 Bf5i2
22. Nf1h2 Bi2xj3 (G.V can't refuse my new gift.)

23. Nh2xj3 Ra8d8? (The game is not here...And why not capturing my Knight??? I don't have a Rook behind after all.)

24. Ai3j5 b7b5?! (Moving some pieces to the Kingside is necessary as my attack is getting stronger after each move. But again why G.V thinks that my Knight is poisoned? I thought that there is something wrong with G.V and closed G.V at this time but when i re-opened it, it was playing the same move, and even now it does, so everything were OK. But the crazy thing is that when i'm forcing the capture of the Knight G.V thinks it is +600 points ahead. So why it doesn't capture the damn Knight?)

25. Bc1d2 b5b4
26. Bf3g2 Qd7f5
27. Bg2xi4 Qf5c2
28. Kf2e2 h5xi4
29. Qi1xi4 Ce8g7 (Now G.V is in troubles.)
30. Ra1i1 b4xc3
31. b2xc3 Cg7h5
32. Ri1i3 Qc2xa2
33. g3g4 Ch5g7 (At this moment i had only ~1:30 for the rest 7 moves, but for the first time i saw that i was winning.)

34. Ni5xg6 Qa2a6+

35. Ke2e1 (Clever move to gain time as i was sure it would check me again.)

35...Qa6a1+
36. Ke1e2 Qa1a6+
37. Ke2f3 (I won 2 moves as i played instantly. Now i had 1:10 for the next 3 moves.)

37...f7xg6
38. Aj5xi7 Ki8j7
39. Ai7xj6 Qa6f1+
40. Qi4xf1 Kj7xj6
41. Ri3i5 Cg7i7 (The rest of the game is easy of course....)
42. Qf1i4 Rh8i8
43. Bd2e1 Bf6g7
44. h4h5 Ci7xi5
45. j4xi5+ Kj6i7
46. h5h6+ Ki7h7
47. g4g5 Bg7f8
48. Qi4j5+ Kh7h8
49. i5i6 Bf8xh6
50. g5xh6 Kh8g8
51. Qj5j7 Kg8f8 1-0
--------------------------------------------

--------------------
Game 2:
Me Vs G.V 1.03
1. f2f4 Ni8h6
2. g2g3 g7g6
3. d2d4 d7d5
4. h2h3 Nh6f5
5. Ag1h2 Bh8f6
6. c2c3 Ag8h6
7. Ni1j3 Ah6j5?! (What is this move for?)
8. Bh1f3 O-O
9. i2i4! Aj5h6
10. Kf1g2! Nb8c6
11. e2e3 j7j6 (Perhaps i6 is better.)
12. Ce1i1 e7e6
13. i4i5 j6xi5
14. Nj3xi5 (I don't think black has any defence now.)
14...Rh8f8
15. Ci1j3 Ah6g7? (Perhaps the losing move or the game was already over?)
16. Rj1i1 Bf6xj2
17. Ni5xh7! (The first firework!)
17...Ki8xh7
18. Bf3i6+ Ag7xi6
19. Qd1xi6+ Kh7g7
20. Qi6xg6+!! (I intended to play Qxi7 but the King would escape via f6, so i changed to Ag4 or this. But after Ag4 black would have many otpions (good moves) to turn the board. So i started calculating the 2 replies for black. Since fxg6 is an obvious mate for me i had to think only for Kxg6 and after some minutes i saw that black's King was history, since my ArchBishop,Chancellor and Rook would prevail. After analysing with G.V, i saw that i've missed 2 replies by G.V, but i think if any of these positions really happened i would find them. I can't compete with a computer at tactics so it's normal not to calculate correctly a mate until the end.)

20...Kg7xg6
21. Ah2i4+ Kg6h7
22. Cj3i5+ Kh7h8

23. Ci5j7+ Kh8h7 (Here when i started the Queen sacrifice(move 20), i didn't calculate the move 23...Ki8 for G.V, so if this would be a good defence for it i would lose, but as it turned out, this move also loses as there is the amazing 24.Ah6+! So i wasn't lucky after all.)

24. Ai4j6+ Kh7g6
25. Aj6h5+! Kg6xh5
26. Cj7xi7+ Kh5h6
27. Ri1i6 1-0
--------------------------------------------

---------------------
Game 3:
Me Vs G.V 1.03
1. f2f4 Ni8h6
2. Ni1h3 Nb8c6
3. g2g3 g7g6
4. Nb1c3 d7d6 (Until now all book moves.)
5. d2d3 Bh8xc3
6. b2xc3 Ag8f6
7. Nh3g5 O-O
8. Bc1d2 Af6g4
9. h2h3 Ag4i5
10. Ag1h2 f7f6
11. Ng5f3 d6d5
12. j2j4 Ai5j6
13. Ce1g2 Aj6h5
14. g3g4 Ah5g7
15. d3d4 Bc8e6
16. i2i4 Nc6a5
17. j4j5 j7j6
18. Cg2i1 Na5c4

19. Bd2e1?? (No this is not a joke or an oversight of me, but i saw that the 3+ moves tempo i would gain is worth the risk. Of course and it's a bad move but at the end i won, so i could also claim the opposite.)

19...Nc4e3+
20. Kf1g1 Ne3xd1
21. Ah2g3 Nd1e3
22. h3h4 Ne3xc2 (As G.V spends time capturing my out-of-play pieces, i attack.)

23. i4i5 j6xi5
24. h4xi5 Nh6xg4
25. j5j6 Rh8g8
26. Nf3h4 Nc2xa1
27. Nh4j5 i7i6

28. Bh1f3 i6xj5 (G.V is the most happy computer in the world in this position. It has a +1700 score in favour of it!! How did it managed to lose? I wonder......)

29. Rj1xj5 Na1c2
30. Be1d2 Be6f5
31. Ag3h4 Ki8j7
32. i5i6+! (What is going on now? I'm winning or not? I have to analyse this position. When i played the game i was almost sure that i would be able to draw the game.)

32...h7xi6
33. Bf3xg4 Bf5xg4
34. Ci1i5+ Ag7xi5 (Now i have only 3 pieces in comparison with 6 of black side, and no Queen or Chancellor, but i've saw that black King has nowhere to go. One of the best mating net i have ever seen.)

35. Ah4xi5+ Kj7i8
36. j6j7+ Ki8i7
37. j7j8=A+ Rg8xj8
38. Ai5xg6+ Ki7h6
39. f4f5+ Nc2e3
40. Bd2xe3+ Kh6g7
41. Ag6i5+ Kg7g8
42. Rj5xj8+ Kg8f7
43. Ai5h6 1-0
--------------------------------------------

----------------------
Game 4:
Me Vs G.V 1.03
1. f2f4 Nb8c6
2. Nb1c3 Ni8h6
3. g2g3 d7d6
4. Ni1h3 g7g6
5. e2e3 e7e5! (Damn! All my plans are gone with this move. It's a book move.)
6. Bh1f3?! e5xf4
7. e3xf4 Nc6d4! (Again a good book move. Now i have to change my strategy and abandon my attacking plans.)
8. Ce1xe8+ Qd8xe8
9. d2d3 Nd4xf3
10. Qd1xf3 c7c5
11. Bc1d2 Bh8d4
12. Ra1e1 Qe8d8
13. Bd2e3 Bd4xe3
14. Ag1xe3 Nh6g4
15. Ae3g1 Ag8h6
16. Nh3g5 O-O
17. h2h3 Qd8b6! (Nice and unexpected.)
18. Nc3d1 Ng4e5
19. Qf3g2 Ne5c6
20. c2c3 Ah6g8
21. Ag1e3 f7f6
22. Ng5e4 Qb6d8
23. b2b3 f6f5
24. Ne4f2 Qd8a5
25. Nf2h1 Bc8e6
26. Nh1i3 Ra8e8
27. Ae3c1 Be6d5
28. Qg2f2 Re8xe1+
29. Qf2xe1 Ag8h6! (Now i'm in trouble.)
30. Nd1e3 Rh8e8
31. Qe1d1 Nc6e7
32. c3c4 Bd5c6
33. Kf1g1 Ah6g7
34. Kg1h2 Ag7i6
35. g3g4 d6d5
36. Rj1e1 f5xg4
37. Ne3xg4 d5xc4
38. d3xc4 Ai6h4
39. Re1f1 Ne7f5! (Things are getting worse.)
40. Ni3h1 Re8d8
41. Qd1c2 Bc6xh1
42. Rf1xh1 Ah4g3+
43. Kh2g2 Qa5e1! (Nice move. The tactical monster prevailed.)
0-1
------------------------------------------

------------------------
Game 5:
Me Vs G.V 1.03
1. f2f4 d7d5
2. Ni1h3 Ni8h6
3. d2d4 g7g6
4. c2c3 Ag8f6
5. g2g3 Bh8g7
6. Bh1f3 O-O
7. Nh3g5 Af6g8
8. Ce1g2 Nb8c6
9. j2j4 Ce8f8
10. h2h4 (As it is my style when i play against G.V, i never castle and play Pawn moves...)

10...f7f6
11. Ng5h3 Bc8g4
12. e2e3 Qd8d7
13. Nh3i5 Bg4xf3
14. Qd1xf3 j7j6
15. Cg2i3 Ag8e6
16. Rj1j2 Ae6f5
17. Qf3e2 Af5d6
18. Nb1d2 Nc6a5!? (I like this, too tricky.)
19. Kf1g2 (Forced as the ArchBishop could kill my Queen.)

19...Ad6b5
20. Qe2d1 Ab5a4
21. Qd1e2 Aa4b5
22. Qe2f3 Ab5d3
23. Kg2h1 Ad3c2
24. Ag1e2 Ac2xa1
25. Ae2d1 (The Archbishop is trapped.)
25...Qd7c6
26. g3g4 g6g5
27. Ci3h5! (Very well placed!)

27...Rh8g8
28. Qf3i3 Nh6j5
29. Qi3i4 g5xf4
30. Qi4xj5 Bg7h6
31. Rj2j3!? f4xe3
32. Rj3i3 Bh6xi5
33. Ad1xe3 Rg8g5
34. h4xg5 f6xg5
35. Ae3xg5 Aa1c2
36. Ag5xi7 Cf8f2+
37. Kh1i1 Qc6d6+
38. Ki1j2 Cf2h1+
39. Ch5xh1 Ki8xi7
40. Nd2e4+ h7h6
41. Ri3xi5+ Ki7h8
42. Qj5xj6+ Kh8g8
43. Ri5i8+ (After the game i saw that G.V announced a mate in 6 that i've missed it. But it doesn't matter.)

43...Kg8f7
44. Ri8i7+ Kf7e8
45. Ne4xd6+ Ke8d7
46. Ch1xh6 Ra8f8
47. Ri7xe7+ Kd7c6
48. Re7xc7+ Kc6xc7
49. Qj6i7+ Kc7b8
50. Ch6e6 Ac2h7 1-0
--------------------------------------------

-----------------------

It depends on the definition of the "balanced game" of course.......

In Januschess the i/b pawns are not protected.
Is this game not "balanced" even so?
The chances are equal for both players.
Is not this fact deciding for balanced game?

As George and others have noted, opinions vary, so it is a good time to state facts first, then offer comments on the facts afterwards.

1. In Bird's Chess, after 1. Ch3 Black has to defend against 2. Cxh7# since the h-pawn is undefended. Checkmate results if it is not defended, so there is clearly no arguing this point!

2. In Capablanca's chess, the push of White's d-pawn will reveal the attack of the Archbishop against Black's undfended i-pawn.

3. In "Wrong Bird's" chess, 1. Cc3 requires Black to respond to the threat against the undefended c-pawn.

4. In Gothic Chess, there are no such 1-move threats.

I think we can all agree to the above.

The question remains, is 1. Ch3 a "good move" in Bird's chess, since after defending the h-pawn, Black may be able to gradually build up pressure against the misplaced White chancellor. Same for the other variants mentioned.

I think we can all agree there is nothing wrong with 1. d3 or 1. d4 in Capablanca's chess, yet Black still must react against the i-pawn "attack". I don't think a natural move such as 1...Nh6 can be labeled "forced" since it is a move you might want to play anyway.

But, given all of the above, I think it is also safe to say that in the other variants, the scope for play in the opening is reduced as a direct result of the initial configuration of the board.

In this sense, we might loosely refer to Gothic Chess as "having the most balance."

<>A balanced game is where the starting position is such that:(1.)all pawns have at least 1 >piece protecting them;(2.) Indian formations are possible;(3.)neither side has a definite >advantage on move 1(as is the case in Bird's and Capablanca Chess);(4.)Quick lines of >developement are fluid and available(only Gothic Chess meets all these requirements.

This is your definition of a balanced game. I have another. Another person has something different. So you see that you can't really say that a balanced games has..... as this is not a fact but only an opinion.

Anyway i agrre on 1).
I do care for 2) but i don't find it necessary for a balanced game.
As for the 3) it's wrong. How do you know that at Chess or Gothic Chess white or black hasn't a definite advantage at move 1? If you mean "obvious" advantage then i think that at Bird's variation this is not true.
I don't think 4) has nothing to do with a well-balanced game.

You're quoting EdTrice, aren't you? Anyways, Gothic Chess is only perfect within the context of its creator's goals (Indian formations, protected pawns, shorter average game length, etc.). Some chess variants aim for different goals; players who prefer those goals will prefer those variants. No one variant will satisfy everyone.

A balanced game is where the starting position is such that:(1.)all pawns have at least 1 piece protecting them;(2.) Indian formations are possible;(3.)neither side has a definite advantage on move 1(as is the case in Bird's and Capablanca Chess);(4.)Quick lines of developement are fluid and available(only Gothic Chess meets all these requirements.

Yeah and someone should patent this treasure of a game since it has not been claimed yet.

simple solution. get the 'bad bird' game on here and see how many play it.

<>1.Cc3 probably is not the best move for White,like Edtrice` move sequence shows.If it >proves something than the contrary of his statement.
>This move is not a threat for Black`s weak point and he must not fear it.

I didn't say it should fear it. In fact it's a bad move for white to play.
BUT what is the important and what i've said is that WHEN white plays it, then black have only 4 playable moves. Have you seen this at Gothic Chess or Chess? No. At Gothic chess and Chess whatever move white plays, then black has at least 15-20 moves to play or to be more correct at least 9-11 moves that are good theoretically.

>Again I must say I see no decisive disadvantage in this variant,at best a small blemish.

Me too but as i've said, this is not the important thing. The important is that it has this small weakness while it's brother Gothic Chess, hasn't. So we should prefer Gothic Chess if we had to choose between these 2. But we haven't, so we can play both! But as our time is not infinite we should stick with the better one and this is G.C.

I cannot agree with you Chessmaster

"When white plays: 1.Cc3 then black should immediatelly has to play one move to reject it! He can not play from the King's side as he would lose(or anyway he would have an important disadvantage). This restriction of freedom for the black's choices, is a huge drawback of this variation."

1.Cc3 probably is not the best move for White,like Edtrice` move sequence shows.If it proves something than the contrary of his statement.
This move is not a threat for Black`s weak point and he must not fear it.

"This means that on a game, whatever first move white will make, black should have the option of making many various moves and not be restricted to few."

1.Cc3 is not the only move,with 1. . c7-c6 Black has another good answer to defense his position.Moreover Black can try 1...Na6!?, 1..Ce6!?

Again I must say I see no decisive disadvantage in this variant,at best a small blemish.

Amazing that in this "fun" game you claimed to be winning but now admit you're losing yet have offered a draw when it's your move?!?

Right George, I was looking for some "lively" play on CCC and there was much talk of the "Double Muzio" which was a known loss. I wanted to play it anyway since I saw lots of inferior play in the opening books.

I found for 11. Qe2 some good play for black which I elect to keep private for now. The 11. Be5 move compounds the pins and guarantees the recovery of at least one piece. It had not been played before so I decided to see what it would bring.

Again, it was a "fun" game for me, mostly to improve upon the pawn-to-g4 line which is "book" that gives black an easy win. I think my analysis shows better play for white.

I still don't know what Caissus is complaining about. It is not him I am playing, or is it?

Reza, the guy who created the tournament, is moving much slower, only on move 13 in my game with him in the same event. I am on move 27 against AlexII.

What the hell has that got to do with gothic chess??

Atfer many games that he was sleeping Kramnik woke up! He would almost win the last game, but Leko found the nice...Rb7! Now Kramnik has a good position in order to win(very hard though).

PGN so far.......:
1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 Bf5 4. h4 h6 5. g4 Bd7 6. Nd2 c5 7. dxc5 e6 8. Nb3 Bxc5
9. Nxc5 Qa5+ 10. c3 Qxc5 11. Nf3 Ne7 12. Bd3 Nbc6 13. Be3 Qa5 14. Qd2 Ng6 15.
Bd4 Nxd4 16. cxd4 Qxd2+ 17. Kxd2 Nf4 18. Rac1 h5 19. Rhg1 Bc6 20. gxh5 Nxh5 21.
b4 a6 22. a4 Kd8 23. Ng5 Be8 24. b5 Nf4 25. b6 Nxd3 26. Kxd3 Rc8

Nothing odd about Caissus having that quote, I've read it myself from two different sources.

Seeing the game Ed Trice Vs AlexII, what i understand is that it's really an experiment of Ed at an opening he discussed at CCC some weeks before. Playing King's Gambit, Muzio gambit is really a suicide in my eyes.

What i really can't understand is the 11.Be5? move that Ed played. He was a Knight and a Bishop down, and gave his most powerful piece. I think 11.Qe2 would be MUCH better for white that is in an already lost position.

Excellent point Thomas. He did post as if he was reviewing the entire game, even claiming to know exactly where a losing move was made early in the game. I think Caissus is AlexII. Good observation!

And another thing, where did that direct quote that Caissus made about AlexII come from? Does AlexII send information to Caissus about his own games against me? That is odd isn't it?

..or more probably Barnie is Eddie...

sounds to me like cassy is alex.

<>I cannot see any imbalance in this setup only because the early attack with the chancellor against the "weak" point c7 is not a good plan.

Right this is not the reason, but there is an imbalance in this setup for another reason.
When white plays: 1.Cc3 then black should immediatelly has to play one move to reject it! He can not play from the King's side as he would lose(or anyway he would have an important disadvantage). This restriction of freedom for the black's choices, is a huge drawback of this variation.

This means that on a game, whatever first move white will make, black should have the option of making many various moves and not be restricted to few.

>I would say better : Black is okay ,no fast refutation is possible and the setup is playable.

Right, no fast refutation is possible, and the game is playable but since there is the aforementioned inaccuracy in this game, something Gothic chess doesn't have, we should prefer the second for playing.


>Show us a plausible move sequence which is suitable to force a win for White.And only than you perhaps can substantiate,that the setup is inplayable.

As i've said the game is playable, but it is inferior to Gothic Chess since the lack of freedom in black's 1st move when white plays 1.Cc3 is decisive.

Your message makes no sense Caissus. Why are you concerned about a "regular chess" game of mine with another player? That was a wild King's Gambit game where I gave up 2 pieces just for fun.

And what am I going to tell Fencer when I move fast in that game and you move slow in our Gothic Chess game?

You don't make any sense and I am putting you on HIDE, ignoring everything you type from now on.

Bye bye Caissus!

I will move in my games with you so fast or so slow like you move in your game against Alex2,in which you have a lost position since move ten.(cit from one of your messages :"You are losing, not me, you just don't know it yet. You cant stop the pawns.
The game will take about 1 year to finish, maybe more now. I will move with 1 minute remaining.").
You are a really fair player!

i agree with Ed's posts. just makes sense.