he's not. mr trice is a lovely man and a genius. he don't mind being second best at all.

ultimately, they'll only be meaningful after many, many games. Looking at ughaibu's stats, top in so many variants with hundreds of games in them, it's tough to dispute him as #1. I don't know if nellaf has left the site. If his rating bothers you, challenge him!

So how do you suggest making ratings meaningful only after a few handful of games Trice?

Which is exactly my point. Why not make them meaningful?

we don't lose rating points on timeout losses within the first 2 moves, I think. Ratings here are meaningless anyway!

The other personal rating is still a provisional rating, and will stay that way until 25 games are complete - During this time the ratings will not be 100% accurate, which is why they are called provisional. Once the other player starts to complete more games, you will see the rating start to move where it is suppose to.

25 games is what it takes to have an established rating here, but I believe it has been said it takes close to 200 games complete before your rating is truely extablished.

maybe you should change your name to LongWait

I am still waiting to be made the moderator............

<>Because of being sued, I'm banning Ed.

You have no right to ban him for this reason. Think about it.....


>I will become a quiet moderator.

I agree.

>No more posts from me.

No, you are a clever person and you should say what you have to say.

>No more ideas from me.

Come on.You really don't have to do that.

>No more throwing more wood on the fire.

As you are a moderator you should avoid this.


My logical wishes:

Walter: Unban Ed.
Walter: Apologize to Ed for your anti-patent statements and your over-reacting behaviour.
Ed: Take back the sue thing.

All of you have to show some good willing, to achieve peace and your heart will feel better. With some good willing everything can happen. Remember you are not lions. You are humans! And when you have different opinions you have to make some logical conversations and not letting your emotions to drive your decisions.
I wonder when our brain will completely escape from our animal past.....

Cerebro is now a moderator.

I can add a little insight, but not much. His seven wins all came in one tournament (and one win was against me). He advanced to the second round, but, thanks to the very slow play of one individual, the second round started months later and it looks like he wasn't even coming to Brainking any more, so all three ended without a move. I believe that those are not included in the ratings (correct?), so his rated games consist of only seven wins against no losses.

Now, does a player who is 7-0 deserve to be ranked above a player who is 126-0-1. Not in my opinion, but that's why there are established and provisional ratings. ;-)

I am still trying to figure out how a performance of 126 wins, 1 draw, and 0 losses derserves a lower rating than someone with 7 wins and 3 losses.

Somehow "Nellaf" is at 2417 after losing 3 games, and I am at 2410 after winning 126 without a loss.

This makes no sense whatsoever.

This guy charges a dollar a year for licenses and reckons that's worth 100,000 in damages. Braindead.

I find the idea of carrying out lawsuits to silence critics rather than uphold the law odious. As far as I know, Walter has not defied the patent in any way by manufacturing or distributing any sets under the name Gothic Chess. The lawsuit sounds like hollow intimidation and a big waste of time and money, more for Ed Trice, whom I think would better serve the chess community by promoting Gothic Chess rather than trying to silence critics. I like CardinalFlight's post, he summed it up well. It's true Walter is in a conflict of interest by criticizing the patent of a game he is moderating, but he agreed not to make any more incendiary statements so I feel he is just fine as mod. As for one mod unbanning and the other banning, that's just ..... smart.

If I was moderator, I would cut taxes, increase welfare payments and ensure that working to survive was only an option and not a necessity

i hope that was a sarcastic post LJ.

Obviously I am the most sensible level headed fair person on Brainking so I should be made to moderate this board

Walter,

You are as guilty as anyone is today with respect to anything that deserves banning. I have unbanned all whom you have banned today. Do not ban anyone else. You are obviously wwwwaaaaayyyyyyy over the line here. The vote is 2 to 1 in favor of you stepping down. Please do so!

Yes, my behavior of late has not been well indeed. I've fallen into the trap I was trying my hardest to avoid. It's frustrating for me, but hey it happens.

I will become a quiet moderator.
No more posts from me.
No more ideas from me.
No more throwing more wood on the fire.
No more anything except if bad or foul language is used.
My last post will be the site link for Ed's lawsuit. After that, you can have your way until I hear from Fencer, Thad. As for unbanning Ed, get serious. I will moderate without posting unless directly asked to and even then I may not post to the board.

Good bye and keep it clean.

CardinalFlight I think keeping Ed banned because he's not coming back is wrong! What if wants to come back? He has a website to post relavent Gothic Chess things...the last time I checked this was the Gothic Chess DB not the website!
The only reason he is banned is because Walter is the Moderator and has a personal grudge against Ed! Who is kidding who here?

Walter...everything your doing is wrong as a moderator!!! When the board is lit up like a Christmas tree with all kinds of stupid posts thats when WE need a Moderator...not someone just sitting back until the fuse blows anf Fencer has to step in!!
Or when the Moderator WILLFULLY adds fuel to the fire with his posts which are aimed at provoking others!
You are either an ABSENT Moderator or one that when he posts just makes matters worse, and worse, and worse!!
Scarlet is right...you should step down from your Throne! I say we give Thad a chance!!

This board is getting out of hand. As a moderator, the job is to keep it under control and to maintain order. This board should be clean, but also should be free from angry posts and malicious intent. As a moderator Walter has done the opposite of what a moderator is supposed to do by starting arguments and inflaming situations that he has helped create.

Ed Trice as a player has done a great deal to promote this most balanced yet version of 8x10 chess, has promoted the game in his home city, and has provided interesting games and discussion about gothic chess. But, as a patent holder he has taunted people and has disrupted this board. He shamelessly files lawsuites to which he and everyone else know are not valid because walter proposed to make sets which he will not mention the gothic setup. Ed Trice himself has said that someone else should pattent Bird's chess if they want, which means he does not hold the patent on every setup of 10x8 chess. 10 x 10 grand chess sets have been selling for years.

Ed Trice is only doing this to get even with someone who expresses his opinion challenging him. It is something very low. It is something so _stupid_ that everyone can see. What is the character of a person who acts agressively and is vengeful?

Since Ed Trice has already said he is leaving after he finished his games, and since his presence here we would be better off without, Ed Trice should remain banned. He has a website to post relavent gothic chess things.

Walter should see for himself how he has been acting and should step down himself. He has no right to get involved into his own petty arguments with members of this board. A moderator should be understanding and sensible. Walter does not have the characteristics to be a good moderator.

Think about the forums you have gone to which have very immature users who make flame wars, who insult, and act childish. Is this board going in that direction? Everyone should see to it that they post responsively. The reason I go here is to read insightful and thoughful posts about gothic chess. I hope that is why you people come to this board. If you want to turn it into something ugly, then you should go to some other site. Take a look and see for yourslef when the last time someone posted something good about the game which benefits all of us, and how many posts some trash is posted.

I was one of those who sent PM to remove Walter. As much as I remember after some of first anti-patent messages , Ed insisted to discuss it via private messages but Walter continued it in public. The result was that instead of some nice analysis of Gothic Chess (no doubt Ed is the best player here), we had lots of discuss about law. I think this DB is for chess students not law students.
So the job of moderator was to cut it at first as Ed insisted, but sadly it was moderator who started and continued it.
Please , solve your problems privately , or in the real world.

Assuming Ed is right about bwildman wanting me removed, Thomas Barnes just put in his 2¢ for it as he just stated. That makes 8 for my removal and 3 for my retention. I also vote for myself. So that's 4 for me staying. After the count gets to say a hundred concerned people maybe we can do something about it.

We may see you on America's Most Wanted

From: EdTrice - reading message
Date and time: 24. October 2004, 16:09:05
Subject: The link to my lawsuit against you...

...will be posted noon on Moday. They will be able to see a PDF of the docket. They will be able to see your name. Fencer will give me the address information he has on you, and you will be required to come cross country and prove that I am wrong, that you are marketing something else.

You asked for it, I have members already preparing their notorized depositions.

Have fun Walter

===========================================
As you can see, he really says he's going to sue me.
============================================
====
EdTrice (2434) Re: Ed? 24. October 2004, 15:45:18
Modified by EdTrice (24. October 2004, 15:47:22)
I will have you served. Your text has already been sent to:

Fencer, my attorneys at D,B & R, and my patent agent contact at the USPTO. Even if you do not go through with it, you expressed malcontent and willful defiance, enough for me to go after you for "emotional distress."

See you in court Walter. Hope you have about $100,000 sitting around, this is what it will cost you
===============================================
=
Along with this previous post, I must conclude that I'm quite confused. If his threats are valid, what does he expect to gain? If he is a blowhard, he's picked the wrong person to push around. $100,000. Yeah, sure, I'll just cut you a check my son. I'll be waiting for them papers. When he posts the link, I'll post it here and then the court of public opinion can have first crack at it. My life has been pretty dull lately. Going to court for a patent infringement lawsuit sounds like fun. My neighbors will be quite impressed to see me on the evening news defending myself against a game "inventor". Since I have no money I'll have to search around for a lawyer that'll take the case for free and see what happens. I sure hope he sent his lawyers my posts. They'll look at him and withhold their laughter and tell him he has no case. If they take the case, it'll be Ed's money going down the drain, not mine. This is starting to cause me a lot of emotional distress. I'm trying to have fun with it, but you never really know who you're dealing with here on the internet.

I'm a new bloke to Gothic. But before I lay me down for sleep I gotta put me pennies worth out. Down with Walter, aye to that!

ScarletRose, if there's one person here who's doing the provoking it would be you. As for a feeling of power, I'm feeling rather weak right now. Nothing I say or do falls on Ed's deaf ears. So I'll take the hard line as he would do. It ain't the first time he's been banned from this board. If there's not a pattern or history of him being a problem shown through these actions, I guess you're oblivious to it. I've tried what I consider logical and well stated opinions on a subject. I've also tried to interject humor or analogies into some of my other posts only to have them picked apart and completely turned on their head. Now I'm being threatened with a lawsuit from some blowhard that you say is a nice guy and all he does is stir up trouble. He had his say. Let him take it Fencer. In the meantime, I'm banning you too.

Walter.. you know what you were implying with your statement!!.. How can you feel good about that..?? for all these outsiders now.. you try to cover up your taunts.. and in doing so you discust me..

You Should be taken off your throne!

Wow - I never knew Trice had the "power" to sue someone for making other games, I thought he only had the patent on the rules of "Gothic Chess". I will be interested in how your lawyers spin this!

But I guess it was bound to come - Trice having "emotional distress" over other games that he feels he needs to get money from. If it's emotional distress, heck - many of us should sue Trice.

I just hope this event will final clear this site of Trice and his ramblings.

Step down from the position dear.. and let me take over for a bit..

Then.. when there is those moments of stress floatin around.. I can make sure to use strict discipline.. without anyone getting angry..

why is it.. that boys feel they have to keep resisting and pushing til it gets to this!!

Can't you all get along??

A simple convo turns icky.. and so you Ban Trice..

Proves my point.. that you go on provoking the subject.. and when you tire of it.. you can just lay the ban down..

Feel all powerful now!??

Because of being sued, I'm banning Ed.

ScarletRose. I never said I would market Gothic Chess. I said I would market an interchangable board going from 8 X 8 to 10 X 10 squares and would supply extra pieces to play Bird's Chess and Ultima. How you or I guess Ed have misconscrued that into some sort of patent infringement lawsuit is beyond me.

Ho Hum.. You just still don't get it do you Walter..

I am not arguing with you that you wouldn't make a good moderator.. perhaps maybe on another board.. but, you blatantly get upset and start showing jealousy towards Ed due to his ability to patent a chess variant.. of course.. let's not forget all the time he studied each individuals values and strong points of each little square.. So.. due to his time and effort.. is he really at fault??.. It is not to say that someone can't just make a chess board and the pieces.. themselves.. but, to print the rules and use the positioning strictly on that board.. and then sell it as That particular game.. YOu will be challenged.. especially if you try to profit from it..

Similar to writting up a story or producing a movie.. that has already been written or thought of.. and then trying to earn the rewards for someone else's hard work..

And this bird dude.. whoa.. he had every right to patent his positions as well.. Just as I have a right to patent the one position I do.. that many men find they enjoy.. ;) *thinks to self ~ Am I allowed to say that?*

Perhaps I will after I do some indepth research! LOL

Sounds like a implied threat to me. Actually it sounds quite blatant. Supposing you had my address, just what are you planning on doing with it?

Yawn. OK, OK, I'll write the patent office and find out what the deal is and why they granted you the patent. Perhaps I'll spend the $2600 or so it takes to fight the patent, but I really don't see what's in it for me, even if I was to win. I suppose I might get some satisfaction in watching you eat crow, but is it worth the time and effort for me? And what if you're right? I'll have wasted my time and money. Instead I think next year I'll finish the garage and instead of the welder and metal working equipment I was going to put in it, I'm going to get wood working equipment and start putting out chess boards and sets. After I start to market them (Interchangable 8 X 8, 8 X 10, and 10 X 10 boards, with lots of extra pieces to play lots of games like Bird's Chess and Ultima), I'll post to this board where they might be purchased at, then you can get your court order delivered to me Ed and I'll read it at my leisure as I profit from my craft and see that my lawyers have the ability to get a cease and desist order on you.

I support Walter as a moderator, I think he is the best mod this board ever had :)
And I am interested in reading about those patent things, because I dont like the fact a board game (in fact a game setup because the pieces, board, combination of both except certain starting placement were invented earlier) can be protected this way, at least in U.S.
And in last Trice's post I smell something closing to personal attacks against someone who just stated another opinion.
But I think Ed Trice would be a great candidate for U.S. presidency, may be he should try next time, he certainly has a fighting spirit and can convince other people about truth of his ideas :))

...just an opinion of some non-paying member :)

I said I had stopped talking about the patent unless someone else comments on it. As you'll notice, all these things that Ed has chosen and picked from are dated October 15th or earlier. And how 'bout that link that Ed shows in the long post attacking me? It goes to an article written by himself!

Not one of your points Ed show why I'm a bad moderator. They just show that you dislike me being the moderator. You even quote me when the whole context of one of the quotes was in support of your patent. And so what if I make mistakes. We can't all be perfect like you. But hey, perfection ain't all it's cracked up to be, is it? Now when are you going to show us those court cases and get the matter resolved. I already said I'd apologize and get on with life after they come to light. Yet, you call me names and say other things in your posts (hand holding, wallowing, let's remove Walter campaign, obfuscate the issue with meaningless links to the patent office, and other things). IS it because they don't exist? Surely you can direct me to the court itself and I can read it myself?

Here are some reasons, in Walter's own words, why he is a bad moderator.

1. Dissemination of false information

Post reference date: 15. October 2004, 03:01:05

The game itself is a good game, regardless of what name it or the pieces have. Since Bird invented the game, I think it should be named in honor of him. Let Ed promote it and make his money, but give credit where credit is due."

Errors: Bird did not invent the game, I did. Walter refuses to acknowledge even the most irrefutable of facts.

Do we really want this guy to be moderator?

2. Lack of true knowdlege about what he posts

Post reference date: 15. October 2004, 03:01:05

...I doubt if we'll ever really find the true answer about the patenting and rights because it doesn't seem like there's that much money in it.

Well we sold 30,000 sets since December of 2000, which we were required to furnish backup for to the International Computer Games Association
Journal (including tax returns and general ledger entries) before they would put that it print.

PDF file mentioning sale of 30,000 sets

That PDF file is from the ICJA website and we distribute it freely on ours as well.

Errors: Poor assumptions by Walter, not asking for information but instead fabricating his own version of events.


Do we really want this guy to be moderator?

3. Jumping to conclusions

Post reference date: 15. October 2004, 03:40:32

It's hard to imagine that he'd be able to get a court to pull the plug on BrainKing for that reason.

Errors: Blatant lie and willful mispresentation.

Where did I ever say I was going to do something even remotely similar to what is being suggested?

Do we really want this guy to be moderator?

4. Babbling

Post reference date: 15. October 2004, 03:35:49

What's the point of having a United Europe if each state has seperate patenting laws? That'd be like California having different patent laws than Nevada. Though in fairness, a lot of California's laws are different than Nevada's, let alone Utah's!

Errors: Straying far off topic, babbling.

The ninth and tenth admendments to the United States constitution deal with the powers of each state and how they relate to the Federal governemnt.


Errors: Straying far off topic, babbling.

I'm sure the powers that be and other interested parties are duking it out in Europe over the very thing. I suppose it's all in the details and who has the sovereignty when it all gets worked out. I'm just glad I don't have to go through customs each time I cross state lines on the way to Canada and my United States money spends in each state without having to be exchanged.

Errors: Straying far off topic, babbling (maybe just liking to "hear himself talk?")

Though California has the Agriculture stop point on the way back. It's been there since atleast the 1930's. I saw it in a movie called the "Grapes of Wrath". If Ed gets a European Patent, I'm sure you'll be the first to know.

Errors: Babbling some more, then including me into a "summation" with no supporting facts.

Do we really want this guy to be moderator?

5. Far flung speculations involving governments

Post reference date: 15. October 2004, 03:35:49

There's one thing you might be overlooking about the enforcement of foreign patents: treaties. It is possible that our governments have worked out a deal covering this situation.

Errors: Obvious over-reaching, lack of factual data.

This post says a lot. Walter wants to get governments involved in order to satisy his whim.

I will pause here, there is more I can add, but what's the point?

Do we really want this guy to be moderator?

I had seven people contact me via PM expressing their interest in having Walter removed as moderator. Three of them have posted their opinions here too. I agree that Walter, as a moderator, was way out of line with his anti-patent posts. I suggested to him that he resign as moderator and then he wouldn't be in a position of conflict of interest. He would be free to post and say whatever he liked as the rest of you are. Seems things between him and some others have heated up again!

So I guess that's five more votes for Walter to step down, the four who contacted me privately who haven't posted here yet, plus myself. Everyone, please add your votes.

Walter seems to think the entire U.S. Federal Court system has online links, so I will allow him to wallow in his ignorance. All court cases are a matter of public record, so he can go to his local jurisdiction and request acess to a search engine and do his own diligence. As for the upholding of the patent, it is easy enough to find at the USPTO site.

U.S. Patent 6,481,716 which showcases links to the summaries of the cases that were won if you look hard enough.

I think that's enough hand holding for now.

Well my opinion is simple. When a moderator of a board continuously puts firewoods to the fire with his anti-patent opinions is not suitable for a moderator. He can of course say what he think but disagreeing for a USA law about patents, is in my eyes not right. I don't want to be suspicious but his behaviour is not honest for me. Just my opinion of course........

I'll stick to using the word people when I type, but now I'll know what you mean when I see the word.

Peeps means people in chat lingo

ScarletRose, I never made anti-Gothic Chess remarks aside from the naming of it and the ownership question. The game itself is a great game. A rose by any other name would smell as sweet, right? Why should that be grounds for removal? You can disagree with me, but that's your opinion. It surely isn't nitpicking if it elicits some of the responses I've seen from you and others. Why be so defensive about it? So now you've gotten know him on a more personal level. I haven't, and I also haven't done anything to attack him, either. Unless you consider disagreeing and debating attacking. Then yes, I've mortally wounded him. :)
Perhaps when Ed responds with the court decisions and we can read about the cases it'll calm the whole issue down. As for your defending Ed's previous moderation of this board, you've really glossed over how he ran it and treated people. Especially those he disagrees wtih or dislikes.

By the way, what are "peeps"? Sounds like quite the conspiracy to me. I must have missed some interesting times back them.

Everyone knows I am not running for moderator. I have said before, I am not taking on new games, I am finishing what I have, then leaving. I had one person recently beg me for a game of checkers, so we played a quick one, and that was that.

Out of respect for Terry Trotter, I will participate in the Remembering Jestone event, which should go quickly at 1 day per move.

The people who contacted me I just redirected to Thad. I know at one point there were a total of 14 people who expressed opposition to the anti-patent remarks.

They are being asked to post vocally now here in this board.

As I see it now, we have "publicly" 3 votes to remove Walter.

Bwildman, ScarletRose, and myself.

I think it is safe to say that ChessCarpenter and tedbarber will add to this, as they were one of the first to call the post by Walter to my attention.

So we have a conservative 5 votes to remove Walter right there.

I second Walter Montego as a moderator of the Gothic board.He is a good moderator and there are no "anti-Gothic Chess" remarks,only "anti-patent" remarks.
A patent of a game,which would not be allowed here in Europe.
Edtrice:"People contacted me after your "anti-patent" posts".
How many people? Two or three?

To answer your question Walter, on why Ed doesn't moderate the board could be due to peeps not really giving themselves a chance to know Ed on a more personal level.. Some are so intimidated by his posts and his level of intelligence that they simply shy away, or gang up on him.. A while back Ed Tried to help this site.. peeps took it as though he was wanting to take control of it.. He actually ended up losing quite a bit of money due to the outcome.

Peeps assumed by his posts.. that he was a real monster because at the time he was also aware of wrong doings of the KM. Which was a group formed similar to the groups now with UE and Mastermind.. most people were tagging their names with KM (and it was a large group, I included) just to do it.. not knowing what actually was going on at the top of the KM.. When Ed commented that he was going to break down the cluster of KM's then of course.. he ended up getting a lot of peeps angry at him.. Cause they new the leader of the KM to be such a kind person.. Wanting to help others.. And offering friendship and advice.. While he and a few others managed to lure passwords out of others and do some not so nice things. It finally came out around a year ago.. So I don’t care to go into much more details.. But, since that incidence.. There HAS been biased opinions from most at the site towards Ed.. Which in turn when he tried to do the moderator position he would get down right attacked..

Now Granted.. I do not mean to say Ed wasn’t tempted to come down to everyone else’s level.. Cause he is only human.. And he did at times.. That is when I started chatting more with him.. Seeing his side of the playing field.. And I learned that I was one lucky gal to have pushed the feelings aside that were openly stated throughout the site and actually get to know who is he rather than cast judgment on him for his type written words.. I am glad to call him a great friend. I have learned he has a wonderful sense of humor, is very intelligent and very real.

So please.. Don’t nit pick and try to belittle him with this.. “Why aren’t you moderating this board?” BS..

I simply have a problem with Walter Montego's anti-Gothic Chess *patent* remarks. I think it's ridiculous that he is tolerated to continue doing so.. he should be removed as the moderator I feel. Isn't it double standard when a moderator nit picks to create a flame responce.. yet, is continually allowed to do so?

Especially when they end up hushing others or omitting posts..

edit remarks ~ *I put the Patent into it!* LOL