The number of Japanese chess players who obtained provisional BKR exceeds 100 today, as you see in http://brainking.com/en/Ratings?ap=1

takodori: How I can know who started shogi games, but not stand in BKR? They will grow this list in future.

YuryShpilev: Well. Though it is time-consuming, there is a way like this.

Click "Raintings" on the main page and then click "Japanese Chess" to go to
the Rating players list. And then click "show all started games" on that page.
Then you can see 9 page of the list of started games with players' nicknames.
Compare them with the provisional BKR players. The difference should be the
unrated players that you would like to know.

takodori: Thank you for information. Here not sorting on players or column name, and it's info very hard for analyze, but it better then nothing.

You can watch and replay the game at
http://www.iijnet.or.jp/shogi/kifu/index.html
Title holder Ryuou Watanabe made a first move. For those who can read Japanese,
Ryuou-sen Blog is available at
http://www.shogi-live.com/blog02/

takodori: Did Watanabe win that game? In 72 moves? I don't read Japanese, so it is sometimes difficult to tell from a final position who has won. It would seem that Kimura had an advantage because of all his pieces in hand. This is one of the aspects of shogi that I am still learning. I always think the player with more peices in hand should win- perhaps I am too dependent on western chess- where a player in that position would most likely win.

Sorry for the off topic. I've noticed there are many Russian players contributing to this board. Is anybody interested in moderating the Russian mutation of BrainKing.com board?

DragonKing: Here black (in Japanese style) made "mating net" around white's king, and they king are out of threat. Now black have mate threat: N-5c= mate. If white do move G-4b, then N-5c+ a)Gx5c Rx2b+ Bx2b S*4b mate! b)Gx4c Rx2b+ Bx2b S*5b mate!
You must enoght pieces in hand for mate!

DragonKing: Watanabe won it with 71 moves. The variation after the final move is as YuryShpilev points out. N-5c+ would be a magical sacrifice.
I've dealt with it in my blog at http://shogi-excitinggame.blogspot.com/

DragonKing: Sorry. One correction. I think YuryShpilev's b) is wrong.
It shoud no be so easy. After N-5c+, Gx4c +Nx4c R*8b P*3b Rx3b G*5a Kx5a +Nx3b S*1b Rx2b+ Bx2b S*6c B*5b R*8a B-6a Rx8b+ N*7b +Rx7c then White could not recover the hopeless situation.

Fencer: I guess, Russian can use English version, Thanks.

Does anyone know of any books on this game;or how to get a board and pieces;not a computer version. I detest computer chess programs of any kind;since I think a person should rely on his own skill and not outside help when playing a game. Using outside help in a game is cheating once a game commences;and I hate anyone who cheats at anything. I never will;it is dishonest and dishonorable.

tedbarber: Here are a couple of suppliers in the USA:
http://www.hirohurl.net/shogi.html
http://ishigames.com/shogi.htm

flummoxed: Have you tried Amazon.com for shogi books? At least two good books for anyone new to shogi.

tedbarber: I've bought this book and it seems to be a good resource for beginners. Moreover, it contains a paper board and pieces.

The Leggett book has some mistakes according to George Hodges. Tony Hoskins' book is the best in english.

http://www.bgshop.ru/search.aspx
ISBN 5-17-025062-2

I thought there was a rule that you could not checkmate by dropping in a piece.

tedbarber: You cannot checkmate by dropping a pawn. Other pieces are allowed to checkmate by dropping.

Here's a link for the Tony Hosking book I mentioned below (sorry for misspelling his name): http://homepage.virgin.net/skp.stratford/

takodori: Aoocrding to kurnik.blog at http://www.kurnik.org/blog/, shogi has been added as a new game there.

I wrote information how to choose symbolic or kanji pieces there at my blog at http://shogi.typepad.jp/eweblog/ for your reference.

<Does anyone have an opinion about the "Stairs" feature on BK? I recently joined the Standard Stairs>>Japanese Chess stairs, and there were only six players including myself. I emailed about 30 players inciting them to join, and now there are 16 players on those stairs. Does anyone else want to join?

I announce about online shogi tournament on site Kurnik.org (see http://www.kurnik.org/intl/en/shogi/?pt=1). I invite all shogi players to meet in Kurnik in 3 December. Tournament start in 13:30 GMT (see your time zone http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=3&month=12&year=2005&hour=14&min=30&sec=0&p1=262).
Sign-up for this tournament starts 5 min. before its starting time in the private room named like the tournament id (457136). The room will appear on the list of rooms 15 min. before the start of the tournament. Entering the room will then be also possible from this page (http://www.kurnik.org/intl/en/tour.phtml?tid=457
136).
Organiser: yuryshpilev (http://www.kurnik.org/intl/en/stat.phtml?gid=sg&
uid=yuryshpilev)
pairing: swiss system
parameters: 5 rounds, 20 min, +5 sec after each move (Fisher system).

<Now there are 23 players on Stairs>>Standard Stairs>>Japanese Chess! The chess standard stairs has 30 competetors. We should get more people to make the Shogi stairs become a real forum for BK shogi players.

emmett: Your initiative was very successful

I am happy to see that you joined the stairs, lukulus. 23 players is a healthy competition. Already I have given out Takodori's blog address to four or five people, and have been supplied with some valuable insight into the game. I love to see a supportive and challenging group interact. Cheers to BrainKing, supplying us with an international common language: the game.

Nobunaga's Shogi Revenge

It is time to protect your Han (藩, fiefdom). You are the daimyo (大名, feudal lord) commanding the troops. Put on your armour and your battle helmet. Sharpen your katana (刀, sword). Unfurl you clan banners and fight!

How are the ratings here calculated? Does it relate to the way shogi professional ratings are figured? A similiar system? For example, our best players here are about 2200. So, based on that- what number would Mouriuchi or Habu have? I undretsand how FIDE rates chess players- so I'm wondering if our ratings here relate to the upper ranks of shogi in any way. Thanks!

There's no comparison. Chess has a far narrower ability range than shogi. The strongest players at BrainKing are around 4th dan amateurs. That's below 6th kyuu professional. Professionals need to score around 80% in a continuous tournament to be promoted from 6th kyuu to 4th dan. Likes of Habu could be expected to win a reasonable proportion of games against BrainKing's strongest players giving a two piece handicap.

(Kyuu are negative grades, a player needs to be promoted 6th to 5th to 4th etc, after 1st kyuu comes 1st dan, then the player needs to be promoted 1st to 2nd etc. Professionals have to reach 4th dan by the age of 25 or they're kicked out of the shoureikai -a continuous tournament for apprentice pros.)

ughaibu: Ok- But what is the difference between 4th Dan amateur and 4th Dan pro? I thought it counted down from like 15 kyu to 1 kyu then 1 dan or shodan? Then up tp 9 dan? Like Mouriuchi, Sato, Habu, etc.?

DragonKing: Tatsushi Higuchi, a Japanese shogi fan, carculates and published the rating of pro players on his website.
http://members3.jcom.home.ne.jp/ta-higu/shogi/pro-rating.html
According to him, Top 5 players as of September 30, 2005 are as followings;
Habu 3176
Maruyama 3081
Sato 3080
Watanabe 3067
Moriuchi 3066
His rating list will be updated quarterly.

Normal amateur ranks are up to 4th dan. To get 5th dan I think a player has to qualify for a major amateur national championship (Meijin, Ryuo, Osho) by winning their relevent prefectural tournament. 6th dan requires winning the Ama Meijin three times and there are some homourary 7th dans. Titles can be awarded for other reasons too, for example Tamiya Katsuya, the inventor of Kyouto Shogi has a 4th dan for tsumeshogi composition. Students enter the Shoureikai when they're around 10-12 years old, at that age they are usually already amateur 5th dan, apart from their previous results they have a pretty stiff written exam before being admitted.

A complete beginner is amateur 15th kyuu, a full strength amateur is 4th dan. Amateur 4th dan is weaker than the lowest (beginner) pro rank, which is 6th kyuu.

ughaibu: Are chess clocks used in professional shogi matches? What is the standard length of one tournament game for professionals?

There's a couple of score keepers, recording the moves and keeping track of the time with a stop-watch. Typical time limits in qualifying rounds are 5 or 6 hours each for the game, in title matches 9 or 10 hours with the play over two days. If a player uses less than a minute it's counted as "no time" and nothing is deducted from their allotment, so when a player has used all his time he carrys on playing within a minute per move.

ughaibu: Slight correction, to get 5 dan, it requires to be the second best player in a national ama tournament hosted by Japan Shogi Assosiation. To get 6 dan, it requires to win a national ama tournamnet hosted by JSA. And winning a JSA hosted tournament three times will be entitled 7 dan.

Okay, thanks for the correction.

This is a question regarding Shusai (Takodori, maybe you can answer it...)
In Kawabata's "Master Of Go", he writes of go master Shusai (Kitani Minoru), who is described as "twenty-first in the Honnimbo succession". I was not sure what the Honnimbo succession exactly was. I looked it up in Google, and found only two references (to the Kawabata novel). I also looked it up in Wikipedia and got nothing. I think Honnimbo was the original go master. Is that correct?

I believe you misspelled:
http://senseis.xmp.net/?Honinbo
http://senseis.xmp.net/?HoninboShusai

Fwiffo: Those links provided an excellent response. Thank you Fwiffo...

I’ve been translating in Italian the page about rules of Shogi and I found this statement, in my opinion partially incorrect: “Because of the drop rule, a stalemate (which would mean a draw) is highly unlikely to reach”. A stalemate is surely highly unlikely to reach, but if it happens I think that the player who can’t make any legal move doesn’t draw, as in “western” Chess, but he loses the game, as in Chinese Chess. I wait the opinion of players more experienced than me. Thanks for your attention.

Niccar: Correct, an illegal move in shogi loses whereas an illegal move in chess is impossible. The way in which shogi is conducted in Japan, at amateur tournament level the player would normally capture the king.

ughaibu: I'm confused by the king capture you mentioned. Are you talking about when someone has mad an illegal move and accidently left their king in check? Or are you talking about where white (for example) as gotten black into a position that would be checkmate in western chess, then black makes a move, then white captures the king?

At normal amateur level, if a player makes, for example, a nifu (dropping a pawn on a file with a pawn already on it) if the opponent wants to claim the game they need to do so immediately, once the position of nifu on the board has changed there is no violation, this is different from chess. In shogi the king is a piece that like any other can be captured, it's not "illegal" to put it where it's in check, however it can seem that way as if a player points out that it's check they are effectively announcing that they will capture the king, so the opponent will resign and in professional games the score-keepers will stop the game.

Has everyone read Headius' suggestion concerning BK getting Tori, Wa and Chu variations? What do you think? His suggestion can be seen on Discussion Boards - Requested Features...

emmett: I would like to have Chu shogi- there are a few good sites with game kifu and other information about Chu on the net.

In his diary, the piece maker Minase Kanenari (1514-1602) says that he had produced with his son 618 sets for Sho Shogi, 106 for Chu Shogi, 2 for both Dai Shogi and Dai-Dai Shogi, 3 for Maka-Dai-Dai Shogi and 4 for Tai Shogi between 1590 and 1602.
Are there more contemporary terms for these shogi variants? (because I've never heard of Maka-Dai-Dai shogi before...)

I found the answer to my own question. Check this out:
mddshogi

emmett: Do you know that you can play all these variants using Steve Evans' Shogi Variants software? It's invaluable because there is complete information on every variant, including the pieces and rules. The only drawback is that the playing strength of some of these larger variants is a little weak- but since everyone is really still a beginner with most of these variants- the strength isn't that important at first anyway.