(V): It's not intended to last forever, just long enough to help your country recover.


Thats fine.... just that many think we will recover in a couple or few years anyway, without the government huge spending, some disagree, Bam was elected, so we do it his way, doesnt mean we have to think it is the right decision, all we can do is sit back and see what happens now.

(V):true, JFK wouldnt get elected today with the media

Czuch: I'm not bashing your Pres as he's not shown yet to be an idiot like Bush. If he mucks up through stupid mistakes like Bush I'll make comments.

Charles Martel: Nixon, JFK, etc, etc. I think sometimes people expect your Pres will be like an angel.

Tuesday: If hollywood is where you look for education and or advice on national or world events, then good luck, american idol will be telling you how to vote

Charles Martel: We all knew this would happen.... when you bash bush its because he is an idiot who deserves it... when you bash Bam..... at least everything being said against Bam is true, nobody has lied or misrepresented or taken out of context anything.... its simple disagreement in views and ideas...

Czuch: It's not intended to last forever, just long enough to help your country recover.

Economists will always argue, It's good for job numbers

Tuesday: embarrassing like who?? dimwit Carter, or clinton who I voted for.. who lied to get out of a sex harassment suit, now that was embarrassing!!

Czuch: are you purposely trying to humiliate him, denigrate him, take sound bites out of context, make insulting movies of him like they did for the last 8 years??? gee why not??

Tuesday: does this mean you are going to be supportive of Obama?

What do you consider support??? I am not out with a protest sign against him, I am not calling for his impeachment.... is that support?

(V): Boom periods based on credit never last. It's an economic fact. The Bubble will burst and not nicely.

...and it is my opinion, and others as well, like some you see on fox news, that this new spending spree is only temporary as well, and it too will never last!


Its like giving a kid an allowance... they have money to spend, go to the mall or the movies or a bite to eat, but that $20 bucks only goes so far, and they come back next week looking for another $20.... the reality is that you arent creating any wealth when you give your kid an allowance, you give them something temporary, nothing different when the government pumps a bunch of money at us, its a temporary fix.... and there is absolutely no evidence that we wont get to the same place in a few years without any type of stimulus?

Economists are still today debating weather or not the new deal actually made us take longer to come out of the great depression, than doing nothing at all would have!

by the way what are we getting from the stimulus?? $800.00 or so?? is any one calling it taxcuts for the rich this time like the last few times we got it??? and why not??

and by the way, you got to love his senatorial replacement , Burress, , could that state be any more corrupt???

Tuesday: yes, because my family's future depends on it, but i will blast him for every stutter , every time he misspeaks,every bad bill, and wasteful spending, and any mistake... its only fair

Tuesday: Come and live in the big city for a while, like Philadelphia,, you'll see corruption at its best, handouts
for everyone

Czuch: Yes, but if like what has happened now, this slump occurred from people basically relying on a economic 'boom' to go on for ever based on crazy credit and greedy and as descibed "crazy mistakes that you'd only expect from someone who doesn't know what they are doing"... Boom periods based on credit never last. It's an economic fact. The Bubble will burst and not nicely.

This is not doom and Gloom, this is reality. Fact.

But the question is, knowing that such systems have been used in the past and gone "POP", why on earth are were they still allowed to be used?

Thatcher used the "BOOM and BUST" economic system and it went BANG, so now aka Titanic style (lifeboats) rules are being put in place. People are being called to account for their actions.

It's not your people's fault, they are not to blame.. They are taught the American way and fell in love with a dream that ended in a nightmare by marketing pressure, and certain amount of 'tradition' and peer pressure.

The democrats can't save you. you have to save you by believing in your country again, and rediscovering some wisdom over what is allowed and some learning over 'bad mistakes' by bosses of big corporations. Not poor people, but rich men and women.

And FIX that lobbying system of yours!!

Czuch: I agree Czuch, i didn't care that much for Bush, but He was our president, what happened over the last 8 was disgusting.move on.org and that slob michael moore ran a disgusting smear campaign from day one.I'll say again, I rather would have had Clinton,but I'm glad we had Bush rather than that blowhard Gore and that stooge kerry

(V): Oh I was listening and those who were talking wanted him to fail. I think they are miffed at him being a democrat and President. Bad losing basically


Are you kidding me????? Where have you been the last 8 years, in a cave????? I can find you 10 news stations for every fox news that did exactly what you are saying against Bush!!!!! I never remember you calling them bad losers?????

Tuesday: and happen to be the type to give a hand up to the people conservatives detest.


Its called a hand out not hand up.....

Czuch: Oh I was listening and those who were talking wanted him to fail. I think they are miffed at him being a democrat and President. Bad losing basically

Well we over here have had our Government save banks rather then let them go under and put peoples savings at risk. Certain other steps are being done, to prevent 'this' happening again. It's cost the UK people billions, but the alternative..... ....

And what is wrong at making savings and creating jobs? There are areas you full well know that are inefficient... Is sorting them out wrong, as in the long term the investment will pay off.

I look at it like a doctor faced by a patient who has an illness that has to run it's natural course as no cure is available. He/She does his/her best to make the patient as comfortable and pain free as possible, care and concern are part of the oath they took.

The voters thought your President's ideas were better. And as commentated by those who watched him speak..... They felt hope at last.

Tuesday: Heck no... I can make $200 to $300 a night for a 5 hour shift waiting tables... I know many people who keep waiting tables even after they graduate college because it pays better than their new careers would!

But do you honestly think someone would turn down a better higher paying job just because they like serving people food so much?

(V): You are talking like you expect a perfect world... It ain't.


Yup, we happen to agree.... it aint a perfect world, our economy will sometimes slump, some people will lose jobs some will lack opportunity, sometimes the markets will rise, sometimes people will get a good job... its an ebb and flow.... like everything.... the economy will rise and fall, the earths climate will constantly change, there is nothing wrong with any of that.... especially nothing that needs us to go into a panic spending spree, liberals are all about panic and scare tactics, they paint everything gloom and doom and then tell us they can take care of it all, just give them a chance and they will save us from ourselves!

Czuch: You seem to forget the Iraq war, when liberals said they support our troops, but not the war????

Why cant we now support our president but not his policies????

(V): You obviously dont listen closely enough.... nobody wants him to fail, we just dont think huge government spending and other parts of his plans are the right answer.

Nobody wants our country to be in economic ruins either, we just dont think that is going to happen, we simply got way ahead of ourselves, and we are naturally correcting, where does it say that we are all entitled to unlimited growth and prosperity all the time????

Czuch: No. I'd say it was more Rupert Murdoch who made Fox news the way it is now. He is well known for creating conservative media with a bias that can leave details out, or play with reality.

The Usurper: Problem with your theory is, fox news didnt create conservatism, its the other way around....

Czuch: You are talking like you expect a perfect world... It ain't.

.... well, it is, but that's do with something else, but at the same time it's recognised it isn't perfect as well.

(V):

Are you saying that only the rich should have babies? Are you proposing a somewhat big brother approach to having families where only approved parents can have children and any poor people who have babies are to be prosecuted and jailed?

Not even close to what I am saying..... Its a personal choice, but dont complain to me or ask me to help you raise the kids you had that you cannot afford to have either! Most minimum wage jobs are for the young and undereducated, stepping stone jobs that arent meant as life long careers for anyone, they arent meant for married couples with a hand full of kids.

Tuesday: Only know one reason, experiance and education.

But this says more....

http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_o/bl_simmons_forty.htm

The Usurper: ... Fox news it appears, or at least the 'editorial' shows would like your President to fail in his plans.

.... But that would mean the USA would end up in such a state that it would make the great depression look like a boom period.

... Funny they want the USA to be on the brink of total economic ruin.

The Usurper: There is the old saying "Life begins at 40"... why... because of an old problem that the Jewish faith found that a certain amount of living is required before certain aspects of Judaism can be taught. For to try to teach before hand would be like planting a seed in barren soil.

(V): You see my point, about how many Americans think. It is so twisted, it is hard to unravel. And Fox News, the content of which you can now examine for yourself, gives you an indication why.

Czuch: lol Those are some interesting points of view you have. Ah well....experience teaches where knowledge is lacking.

Czuch: Are you saying that only the rich should have babies? Are you proposing a somewhat big brother approach to having families where only approved parents can have children and any poor people who have babies are to be prosecuted and jailed?

Liberals rely on the poor and uneducated and the elderly????

Can you explain that? As it seems some capitalists rely on the poor being poor, some parties rely on their voters being 'uneducated' and 'uninformed' to get their votes, and what has the elderly got to do with it?

As for the downtrodden, why are people treading on them? Are some people that empty they need to tread on people to feel good about themselves, or would a gradual process of tackling the problem(s) be a better and greater idea.

The Usurper:

But let's assume two parents are working for minimum wage...that simply doesn't cut it, and by a long shot.


Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place??????????


Its just so frustrating to listen to you babble on about how poverty is because of lack of opportunity, yet you live in the country that offers more opportunity than any other, and when we try to give Iraqis a chance for more opportunities, instead of sending them food decade after decade, actually giving them hope to take care of themselves, then all you want is for Bush to go to jail, and whine and cry about the imperialist nation builder!!!!!


Its kind of like the example where no one breaks any laws, ever.... well, what would the police do, or the jails, what about all the revenue generated from fines and such????? As much as we say we want no crimes, at the same time we rely on crimes to make us money and provide jobs.

Its no different here, you say you dont like poverty, yet what would liberals do if there were no poor to hand out money to, what if there were no one that needed the government to help them, then where would liberalism be??? You rely on the poor and uneducated and the elderly and the down trodden or else you wouldnt even exist, you have no interest in getting rid of poverty, you just want to keep peoples heads just above water, like a drug dealer, you want them to need you, its your only life line.

The Usurper: Dangerously socialist!!!!!!!! Each country elects their own government, from many party's. Right, left, central and oddball!!

Since we changed our digital services provider I can now see what you mean, as we get to see Fox News (owned and run by conservatives) ... The editorials are certainly and talk bits are certainly.... lacking.

(V): Add to that, that our major media are now owned by literally a half-dozen major corporations whose executives and major shareholders have a financial stake in not only distorting the reality of our predicament but also in omitting important news & facts which do not fit their agenda, and the result is that you have Americans thinking European countries are dangerously socialist while here, the poor are blamed for being poor & the system is praised for its "opportunity."

(V): It certainly stinks, and Corporate manslaughter is an accurate way to describe it. The government doesn't stand up to the lobbyists here because the lobbyists own the government. Many politicians move back and forth, from government jobs, to lobbying jobs, and vice versa. We are the richest country in the world, but that wealth is actually accumulated into relatively few hands. This trend has continued very strongly during the last 3 decades, so that, economically speaking, the Democrats are now to the right of where the Republicans used to be. The result is tragic for the working man.

The Usurper: Yes, we have National health coverage as well as the ability for people to buy private policies if they wish.... often though in cases of speciality, it's the same consultant, just he's getting a little extra cash via his private patients.

I heard that the lack of universal health coverage is costing 10's of thousands of lives each year.... I can't understand a policy that kills it's own people through lack of a basic service necessary to peoples well being.

.... One doctor from Africa came over with his team recently to the USA to run a clinic for those without health insurance.... why is such a thing necessary? The USA's current system is inefficient, expensive to run and delivers less service then many many countries less rich then the USA.

Why the waste? Can't the USA government stand upto the lobbyists and tell them to get lost and be ready for change for the better in order to save lives?
Or are the 'perks' that some get from 'deals' to much to resist?

... Something stinks about the situation and that some put money above lives of their own people, basically via lack of care letting them die. Over here we call that Corporate manslaughter, those responsible would be in jail.

Czuch: I was very impressed by it. You are a thinking man and you communicate well.

I would only say a couple of things, that I hope you will think about and perhaps research, in time.

A lot of the poverty that you saw in the rest of the world stems from the neo-colonialism of exploitation from the Western powers. America is now the strongest neo-colonial power in the world. There are no working standards or protections at all there. That's why our companies build there, and employ child labor, etc. We also destroy democratic movements (it is one of the missions of the CIA), replace them with strong men who benefit personally by our removal of the natural resources of the countries in question.

The other thing I would say is, I believe that other nations see America more truly than we see ourselves. They are those who are impacted by our foreign policiy They do not believe that we are spreading freedom or building democracy. They see that those countries we oversee become poorer & more politically corrupt, for the most part. We have overseen the countries of Central America for ages now, for an example. We've done some truly terrible things there.

What people in other countries may misunderstand, however, is that the American people themselves do not perceive their country as corrupt, as you rightly said. They feel we are doing good in the world. If they didn't, they would demand things change. The hard part, from my perspective, is getting the American people to see what a bad world citizen our nation has become. As an American, I feel that to be my duty, as unpopular & unthankful a task as it is.