skipinnz: true .. but in case your opponent only needs 1 point .. then you would always double at once .. why wouldnt you if it can give you more points and doesnt make a difference for him. to solve this its not allowed to double the first game when one of the players is only 1 point away from winning the match

Andersp: lol :)

Andersp: the question isnt if you would want to roll the dice ... but if you want to double . if you are stuck on the bar you might still want to double ... just to scare your opponent i guess ;)

lets blame it me being blonde and dutch :)

whats 'checker play' ?

Fencer: would it be possible to display the match info to the right of the board (right of the doubling cube) ?

would it be possible to show how many pieces there are already beared off ? (i know i can count ... but i am lazy :))

Fencer: thanks .. lightning fast fix :)

i posted a bug in the bug tracker :

i see the link 'swap dice' in this game while i cant make a move with any of the dice :)

Fencer: great! thanks :)

i added 8 games for a 3 point match with doubling cube to the waiting room (4 with me being black, 4 with me being white)

anyone who wants to play ... they are there to be started :)

Fencer: *nod* thanks :) on another site there was a seperate list for every match option of backgammon .. i dont like that :)

i cant wait to play with the cube :)
(and discover there is much more to it than i thought to know ;))

Fencer: great! we can play the real games then :)

how will the bkr be ? using the backgammon bkr or will there be a separate bkr for cube matches ?

Fencer: yes please! i want to test it :)

frolind: lol *nod* .. i had to look 1 move back as well to fully realize it :)

playBunny: ah i didnt know about wayney .. i think brainking04 is quite suspicious as well

why did black resign in this game?

there are also some reversi games for BrainKing04 in which the opponents resigned

but why did white (brainking04 himself) resign in this game?

thanks filip, working flawlessly now :)

Fencer: ah! i checked for you but didnt see you online .. i guess you heard all our souls cry for help ;)

Hrqls: i posted the bug in the bug tracker

i have another game with the same bug : http://brainking.com/nl/ShowGame?g=1084960

i want to move the 4 first, so i can bear off with the 6

Walter Montego & playBunny: ah thanks, i am glad :) *phew*

i move both dice when i can (even if its to my disadvantage) but i didnt think about this possibility until after i moved

on this move i rolled 2+4 ... should i have moved 5 to 1 and 3 to 1 (leaving a single piece on 3) or was i allowed to move 5 to 3 and then 3 off the board ?

in the second option i only used 5 of the possible 8 steps (which i would have used in total in the first option)

is this allowed ? (or is it just as much frowned upon as on using only 1 die when you can use 2 dice as well)

grenv: sorry .. my fault .. my message directly below your message which was a reply to me (phew! ;)) .. anyway .. that message of me was a reply to peeky

about the other rating issues .. i agree with you ;)

when i want to judge my opponents strenght i look at his bkr, the number of games he played, how many he won, and his graph to see how he did lately (he could have lost a lot by timeouts, and dropped momentarily :)) .. so i combine all those data (and rarely i look who were his last opponents :))

i would love more types of ratings, but i dont know much about the overhead it would create .. that depends on the database structure

grenv: *nod* i have seen that happen a lot as well .. but peeky's question was why high rating would change more than his opponents rating .. as peeky played more games and his rating should change less, and because of their rating, the higher rating should lose more rating points when he lost, than the one with the lower rating (in case he lost) ... this was the case though .. the one with the lower rating would lose more rating points upon losing .. the question was why

about the net gain in rating when you win and lose one game with the same opponent .. its weird indeed and talked about a lot before already .. i think thats a weird result as well .. it will eventually lead everyone (who isnt that bad :)) to a higher rating when they play enough games

in this game i have rolled 2+5 .. of course i have to get off the bar first so i can only use the 2 as my first die ...

i still have the 'swap dice' link though .. when i click on it i get 2+5 again (as i have to move the 2 first) .. and the 'swap dice' link is gone now

this was what i was talking about before

just to let you know .. i will post it in the bug tracker :)

Peeky: i guess you played more games than he did ... so that would make you lose less (as your rating would be more established

you are lower in rating .. so you should lose less

then only one option remains ... you probably have move variation in your wins and losses ... and thereby your change will be higher .. he might have had a losing or winning streak lately .. and therefore his current game changes his rating less than it would have otherwise

playBunny: ok .. i will post it when i encounter it again :)

Pedro Martínez: *nod* thats how i learned about that rule .. i didnt know .. i made a move which isnt allowed according to that rule .. my opponent told me about it .. now i know .. and i play according to it and just hope my opponent does as well :) .. if not .. ah well .. its just a game :) .. its just one move in a game ... my opponent could have gotten a very useful roll as well (probably some nice doubles) instead of this one .. so it partially up to chance as well .. and might be covered again by some luck from my side :)

alanback: Opponent has 2 stones on your 3 :)

there is a situation .. i am not sure which .. when you still have the 'swap dice' link .. but it wont work

i think the situation is when you have 1 piece on the bar and can only move it out with 1 die (the other die is blocked by your opponent) .. the 'swap dice' link is still there .. but when you click it nothing will change

i dont know if the first die has to be the higher or the lower to make this happen .. will see if i can find an example in any of my games soon :)

should i report this as a bug as well ? or is it cover by what is discussed below ?

AbigailII: ah sorry ... i was responding to If it were illegal, you wouldn't be able to swap the dice

its possible on this site .. so if your opponent doesnt have a problem with it .. you can make the move .. if you want to play according to the 'standard' backgammon rules .. then you play both dice

when i started to play here i had never played backgammon and it took a couple of months before i learned about that rule because my opponent told me about it when i made a move which wasnt according to that rule .. before i would probably have made more of such moves but my opponents never noticed/complained/told me about it

in the rules of this site nothing is said about this issue .. and i cant see the point you were trying to make with the combination of rules as the swapping wouldnt be illegal in other cases .. i read it as if you meant to say that the mere existence of the 'swap dice' link tells us that it is allowed to move just one die when both dice can be used .. i am not sure if you meant exactly that though :)

AbigailII: swapping of the dice is still legal even if you have to move both dice and the highest dice when you can only make a move with 1 die ...

for example you are 3 steps away from a piece of me .. i roll 4+3 ... do i have to move the 4 first and thereby miss you ? no i am allowed to move 3, sending you to the bar, and then 4 with the same piece

so also on sites where the rule is applied you are still allowed to swap your dice

Wil: you should ask sharon about it and how she feels ... if she doesnt even know about the rule .. then do whatever you like :) .. if she does know and has played according to that rule in your game .. then play both dice

tournament games are less likely to be between nicks .. so the check could be applied to normal games alone ..

i am not sure if someone would have a 2 paying nicks .. so maybe the check could be done on pawn games most of the time ?

*nod* at the moment i like it ... but thats just because i only have few games going on :)

its a good thing that i can stop the sequence though ... will have to remember that :)

who are you all on dailygammon ? invite me for a game please ;)

frolind: heh true .. just cutting back on games now because i will be on a holiday soon .. after that i will join more games once again :)

i like to try to remember my plans though ..

i agree with you about the cube decision .. its weird that the site always assumes your opponent will accept ... i would hate to move several extra moves for nothing :)

hmm i never tried it .. but can you stop moving future moves ? can you just stop moving ahead and play your other game ? i guess you can .. will have to try it :)

hmm the computer guesses on dailygammon are nice ... but they might also give me extra work .. as i can move 4 (max) moves ahead ... but my opponent might chose move different in his first move .. i will then have made 4 moves for nothing .. and when i had planned something .. i will have to forget the plan .. which is sometimes difficult as it always seems to reside in the back of my head :)

hmm .. it seems to has its advantages as well as its disadvantages :) (in my opinion at least ;))

lovelysharon: ah thanks ... i have to admit i didnt investigate the site a lot yet .. i started quite some games on several sites and been kept quite busy by them ;)

thanks! i will have a look at it .. its a nice feature .. but confusing for newbies (like me ;))

i recently started playing backgammon other sites as well (as i dont want to start new games on here until i am back from my holiday, and i needed several games a day to keep me moving ;))

i dont know if this is the right board to ask a question about backgammon on another site .. and if i should ask it anyway .. but i will try it anyway :)

i am also playing at daily gammon now ... when i make a move in a game of me on there .. i often get the message 'What will you do if the game proceeds this way?' .. and it allows me to make the next move

does the site predict the most likely move of my opponent ? it isnt always a forced move ...
what i make my next move (in case that situation would occur) i sometimes get the 'What will you do if the game proceeds this way?' question again .. does this mean i made the best possible move (according to the site) ?

wayney: ah true .. i forgot about gammon and backgammon which are still counted in the crawford round :)

alanback: the score in the match was 1-1 at that time, because he declined he arrived at 1-2 though in a crawford round (which is what i wanted to achieve with the double)

how do you get to the 30% .. i am often puzzled by the % used in cube considerations

how do you know a % chance of winning in a game while you are playing it ... there are a lot of moves to go ... is there a simple rule to follow to calculate your % ?

playBunny: *nod* i expected him to decline although i thought the game was quite balanced myself .. he was playing quite defensive leaving no single pieces when he didnt have to .. at one time piling a lot on 1 position .. so i doubled to scare him and hoped he would decline

i would have accepted though :)

on playsite.com i was playing a bg match for 3 points, the score was 1-1 .. my opponent was slightly ahead in pips .. and he had 2 pieces at my #1 and in a few turns would probably have a chance to capture me while his home was completely blocked ... i didnt want to risk this and offered a double as i hoped he would decline and give me a 2-1 lead with a crawford round, so i had 2 rounds to score a point

in his case i would have accepted the double though .. as the game was (imo) quite balanced at that point and i would have hoped to win the match with it

he declined though .. and i won the next round, and the match

what would you have done ? any suggestions ?

bumble: ah! thanks .. that makes it clear :)

do you have to play the highest die first ??

what if you throw 6+5 when you have one piece back in your opponents home .. the rest is in your home already so you cant move those .. one opponents piece is single 5 steps away from your piece-to-move ... do i have to move 6 first and then 5 .. and thereby not capture my opponents piece .. or can i move 5 first capturing him, and then 6 with the same piece ?

playBunny: draw and play again would be the easiest ... but this would make you both start at 0 .. losing the advantage wayne might have now (although with his piece captured, he must be lucky to cover his other 2 advanced pieces)

the most fair option would be to ask fencer to move the game back in time, and give you 1+3 (but i dont think thats possible, the dice cant be edited i think?)

or play on and have a game with a confused move in it ...

i made a few of those moves in bg when i started playing it (i never played it before i came here), because i didnt know it wasnt allowed (wayne of course did know which changes this case slightly) .. so it wont be the only game with this type of move

anyway .. when both parties agree on any of the options .. then noone else would be needed to offer opinions

(i sometimes am a referee in squash and use the rule that if i doubt but both players agree on something .. then i wont change that agreement ... unless i am 100% certain of an error :)

WhiteTower: *nod* as i said before i can understand your situation :)

pawns arent that lowly though .. not in my point of view .. they can beat me in any type of game ;)

WhiteTower: when we are playing a game while i have to be away i will have to rely on my (automagic) vacation days :)

what i am trying to say is that draw offers are available for various reasons ... but you dont 'have to' accept the offer, you can simply make your next move and ignore it if you dont want it .. its just an extra feature :)

danoschek: some censoring will always take place in social aspects ... to keep things social one would have to be able to think from another persons point of view and determine what reaction might be most likely and decide if thats the reaction one is aiming for, if not then one should censor himself, or when one is mistaken and the reaction would certainly not be one which would be building a social aspect which could be desired in the environment then another censoring could take place

(where is juetland ? i never heard of that ;))

danoschek: woohoo! you want me to be the tournament creator :)

WhiteTower: thats a method to play by .. although i wouldnt do it myself i can understand you would :)

but for people who dont play by that method .. the draw feature is available :)

WhiteTower: agreed : the game itself is never a draw

but would you as a pawn accept lost games due to holidays or other, and unforseen, circumstances .. you can always try to take action and see if your opponent is nice enough .. you might decide to draw and play the game again later ?