Ah but look how the good guys whip my tail :(

Well, you only lost 4 of your 30 games of Gothic Chess, you must be doing something right!

Being a persistent loser you should probably choose to disregard this comment, but (for those of you who know me will understand) I couldn't resist myself ...

I find that when the opponent castles it is a benefit to me as I know which side of the board to concentrate my attack on, this is particularly so when castling happens early in the game and piece development is still underway (so many pieces and so many places to put them!). I realise this is a somewhat simplistic assessment, but maybe that reflects my shallow play :(

This is, in part I believe, due to the number of diagonal pieces (four) available which can hone in on the corners (there is even one more in Janus Chess but in that variation there seems to be less castling, but let's not go there right now) and the width of the board makes it easier to position in threatening, yet distant, locations.

So, as a defensive move I try to castle after the opponent and to the opposite corner depending upon where their pieces are ...

and this, of course, relies upon me lasting that long :)

An interesting topic. I just castled on move 16 in my game with GKChesterton, even with my i-pawn removed and the Black Queen capturing onto h3 on the next move! Clearly dangerous for white, but with a lead in material, I could bait this attack then defend easily in later moves. So this is a rare instance of castling deliberately into a 1-move danger situation with a long terms benefit.

Of course at http://www.geocities.com/bow_of_odysseus/deadly_arch.html there are some examples of some castling blunders if you need to see a concrete example of some.

Personally, I have not made up my mind about this as of yet. Castling too early can be deadly. Not castling at all can be deadly, and castling too late can be deadly!

The best solution is to checkmate your opponent before you castle so you don't have to worry about castling!

:)

I personally try to castle early usually within around move 8 and the lastest that I have castled was move 15. It would be safe to say that castling depends on the situation or the board position at that time. There are not many absolutes in chess and this is certainly not one. So, I think its good practice to castle early, but if you don't and position is safe there really is no need to castle. Gothic Chess is still in its infancy and most answers will have to await years of game play but I think this is a safe assumption.

In standard chess theory, it is very strongly recommended to castle, and to castle early (usually within the first ten moves, unless an especially sharp attack is possible), as a matter of king protection as well as developing and uniting the rooks. I am curious to hear if anyone has any strong opinions about castling in gothic, especially in terms of king protection and when in the game it is best to castle.

At this point I am under the impression that, with the number of heavy pieces surrounding the king at the start of the game, the king is perfectly safe for some time right where he is...castling early moves the king away from a pretty solid defense in the starting position. It has felt most natural to me and I have had more success when castling after move 15, usually somewhere between 17 and 22. In games where I castle before move 10, I struggle. (note to self: don't castle before move 10).

Anyone else with any ideas on this?

Thanks so much. And thanks for adding the time stamps in the chat sections. Nice touch.

jetstone: Will be done :-)

This looks great, Fencer & Ed. Would it be possible to show one's W-L-D status on all of Brainking's own lists, instead of mere "counted games"? It would help a lot when evaluating an opponent's standing & strength.

Fencer worked out a way to publish the Gothic Chess ratings on a nightly basis for my website.

Check out:

BrainKing.com Ratings


...where your rating window will now display your win-loss-draw count, and not just the "counted games" column.

Let me know if your rating is correct.

This month we feature The65thSquare as our guest writer, with the link below:

Guest Writer

Inventor's Corner is the link.

Enjoy!

By way of illustrating the surprising power of a lone Janus piece to administer mate with a little help from his enemies, I humbly present 3 recent wins. I choose to show them not for any great or deep play on my part, but as a lesson to new players of something that we all need to be careful about.

Game #89328 might be called a semi-smothered mate.

In Game #92008, White should have played 16. Ke2. But chose the normal action of capturing the checking knight, & overlooked my next move.

Here, in Game #83178, the final position is similar to the preceding example.

Lest you think I only wish to show off my good games & hide my bad ones (of which there are many!), I offer this one: Game #82944. Argh! Now that hurts...

By the way everyone, Matthew recently reminded me that he and I had actually met once in Philadelphia at JFK Plaza. At lunchtime, I would often take my Gothic Chess set out in the park or the plaza, and play some games with other local members of the Association. Although Matthew is now living in Spain and flies the Spanish flag on his profile, he just happened to be at the right place at the right time 2 summers ago.

:)

Felix--The Gothic Chess Association sells tournament-sized pieces with a board most often described as being made of mousepad material. Solid plastic pieces, standard weight for plastic tournament sets, very durable floppy board...very high quality, price around $30. www.geocities.com/bow_of_odysseus has pictures of the set and order info--mh

I like the idea of a Gothic tournament on line, but I don't know if I can make any commitment for a live setting. I do not have two daytime hours during the week or on the weekend. For me it would have to be something like this 5-day BBW tourney in progress. Most moves get made once each day anyway. Even in this format, I lost one game to time out because I got too busy. (BTW: beware of Dredger's Archbishop!) Real life has to take precedence to chess, for me. If I had to figure on getting up in the middle of the night once each week to be sure of not timing out, it would make me less effective in the play on that game by its drain on my enthusiasm. I only get excited about games when I don't play them too much, and if I'm not excited, I make bad moves. Oh, yeah: I still can't find a source for a heavy-weighted Gothic Chess set, and trying to study moves is very frustrating with little salt shakers for Archbishops and pepper shakers for Chancellors. Who sells a good Gothic Chess set? I want a vinyl board, too. I prefer one that lies flat on a table, not one that has little humps and divots. /Fx/

I think the entrance fee of $50 will be firmly established, and the prize money will be distributed as follows:

1st Prize: 50% of all monies received
2nd Prize: 25% of all monies received

Brilliancy Prize: The game judged to be the best of the tournament will receive 10% of the prize money.

The other 15% will go to the Federation.

What will this mean in terms of $$$

10 entrants
1st = $250
2nd = $125
Brillancy = $50

20 entrants
1st = $500
2nd = $250
Brillancy = $100

40 entrants
1st = $1000
2nd = $500
Brillancy = $200

100 entrants
1st = $2500
2nd = $1250
Brillancy = $500

Remember I will sit out of this event and just direct the tournament. I think there is no reason to believe we would have fewer than 100 participants if this event is announced widely across the various websites. I am hoping for about 200 actually. That would make things very interesting!

Since this is a prize money event with the prestige associated with being the National Champion, I will be directing the event, but not participating in it. The tournament is open to all players of Gothic, with the entrance fee a function of whether or not you are a member of the GCF. Existing members get in for the flat fee, non-members pay to joing the GCF at the same time they enter the tournament.

I think it would be better to make the time controls cumulative for the entire game. Maybe 24 hours for the entire game, with the idea that most moves are made in real time as you face your opponent. I am not sure if Brainking is capable of implementing such a time control.

I agree with Matthewhall.It would be fine to play a tournement online but in realtime with a shorter timecontrol.On the great chessservers (ICC,Fics,Chessnet,USCL,Chessbase) some chessvariants are played but nowhere variants on bigger boards,nowhere Gothic or Januschess.If Gothic Chess in the USA is so big as Ed told me and so many people are playing this variant it is sure not difficult to initiate Gothic Chess at least on one server.But surely you can organize a championship as email tournement.This is an other category of chess and I think brainking is an ideal platform therefor.Perhaps we can suggest fencer to implement some shorter timecontrols like 1 hour and 30 minutes/move?
To the theme of Live-chess look to my note in the section of chess.

The problems we had in the past were pairings. Many people were not playing in local events, just waiting for the national, so about 60% of the field had a rating of 1500. This included international masters from the USCF who were playing Gothic for the first time.

We solved this one year by playing an email double round robin at time controls of 1 move per 24 hours, but it took 7 months to conclude that portion of the tournament. At the end, we had a fair idea of people's ratings, and we held a closed tournament with a plus score in the round robin as the qualifying criteria to enter.

I was thinking of something similar for 2003. Maybe do a double round robin online at accelerated controls, facing one opponent each day. After playing everyone, we will have an idea about how to do Swiss pairings.

Otherwise, you might have the undesireable result where strong players are being paired against other strong players early in the event, knocking one of them out due to the nature of the Swiss system.

More feedback on this is welcome.

I agree with Mattewhall on this...an online tournament would just drag itself out! I miss OTB games, but I realize many of you are not from the Philadelphia area. I think the Championship would be played at the Adam's Mark Hotel on City Line Ave. but I think that would have to be determined by availability. Maybe in the future there can be regional tournaments with all the winners going to one location to play for the chanpionship....or some format like that.

Certainly the online format makes the competition open to more people, which is better for the game...but I also feel that the turn-based nature of this site allows games to drag out a bit, and playing a full group's worth of games simultaneously is not my ideal way of playing a tournament...if it could be set up so that the games are played live, at a time mutually agreed by the opponents, with time limits, and so that there's only one game at a time to concentrate on, I would so go for online.

Perhaps there could be a deadline for each game...the first game must be completed by a certain date at a certain time, and if not, neither player receives points. That could keep the pace of the competetition moving along.

By the way, what are the dates for the tournament, and where in Philadelphia is it usually held?

I was wondering if the 2003 Championship should be made an online event this year? Traditionally the national is played over the board in Philadelphia. Also, the entrance fee from previous years has been $50, with 50% of all collected fees going to the winner, 25% to the second place finisher, 10% going for the brillancy prize of best game, and the rest to the federation.

I would like everyone's thoughts on this.

I just finished a game with our esteemed moderator (Whisperz) that shows how powerful a J can be on a relatively open board. It is Game #76758.

and the 25-move limit is down from 40 when i first started in IYT 6-7 months ago. since i only play 4-5 reg chess there now, i didn't notice the reduction.

The German Janus Chess Championship was happening in Saarbrücken 14.-16.03.2003.It was played with a time control of twenty minutes and nine rounds.The champion has been Stephan Becking (Anderssen St.Ingbert),the second and the third place IM Viesturs Meijers and IM Leonid Milov.The comlete results you can find here:

http://www.saarlorluxopen.de/freizeitmesse/frei2003/index.htm

or you come to the JanusChess-Homepage:

http://www.janusschach.de

[Mod: Note both sites are in German not essential but it helps :)]

yeah, i just found out that IYT limits non-payers to 25 moves a day... so you cant finish games fast... so for now, i would rate brainking as one of the better server-based game sites around right now. Except that it is down at around Zero Dark Hundred [12 midnight] EST nearly every day.

Site owner to figure out how to update without switching off the site for a while?

I'm "Juan Grande" on IYT. I'm working on all of my opponents (other than jestone, who's already here) to play Gothic Chess on BrainKing.com.

Hi, Felix! Yes, I got your question about Professor McFarland; unfortunately, I am not acquainted with him (even though the web page I referred you to regarding the opposition was part of his Finite Mathematics chess course - what a cool coincidence!) By the way, if you go to my profile and then to my list of finished games, you can play through the game via BrainKing's interface.

Thank you, Whisperz for the legend

I will present you two short nice Janus Games of the last time I have played outside Brainking without comments:

[Mod: Bauer=Pawn | Turm=Rook | Springer=Knight | Läufer=Bishop | Janus=Janus | Dame=Queen | König=King]

Kreuzer Uwe – Rühl Klaus
Freie E-Mail-Partie 2002

1. Bauer e2 - e4
1. Bauer e7 - e5
2. Läufer d1 - g4
2. Janus b8 - c6
3. Springer h1 - g3
3. Springer c8 - d6
4. Bauer f2 - f3
4. Läufer d8 - h4
5. Janus b1 - c3
5. Bauer f7 - f5
6. Bauer e4 x f5
6. Springer d6 x f5
7. Springer c1 - b3
7. Läufer h4 x g3
8. Bauer h2 x g3
8. König e8 - b8 Turm a8 - c8
9. Springer b3 - a5
9. Janus c6 - d8
10. Janus c3 - b5
10. Janus d8 - e6
11. Janus b5 x a7
11. Koenig b8 - a8
12. Dame f1 - b5
12. Springer f5 - d6
13. Dame b5 - a4
13. Bauer b7 - b5
14. Janus a7 x b5
14. Springer d6 x b5
15. Springer a5 - c6
15. König a8 - b7
16. Dame a4 x b5
1:0

Rühl Klaus - Kreuzer Uwe
Freie E-Mail-Partie 2002


1. Bauer e2 - e4
1. Bauer h7 - h5
2. Läufer d1 x h5
2. Janus i8 x e4
3. Springer h1 - g3
3. Janus e4 - f6
4. Janus b1 - c3
4. Bauer e7 - e6
5. Springer c1 - d3
5. Läufer g8 - i6
6. Dame f1 - e2
6. Janus b8 - c6
7. König e1 - b1 Turm a1 - c1
7. Janus f6 x c3
8. Bauer d2 x c3
8. Läufer d8 - f6
9. Janus i1 - h3
9. Springer c8 - b6
10. Janus h3 - f4
10. König e8 - b8 Turm a8 - c8
11. Janus f4 x i7
11. Springer h8 - g6
12. Janus i7 - e3
12. Janus c6 - b5
13. Springer g3 - e4
13. Springer b6 - a4
14. Janus e3 - d1
14. Läufer i6 x h5
15. Dame e2 x h5
15. Bauer d7 - d5
16. Springer e4 x f6
16. Bauer g7 x f6
17. Bauer f2 - f4
17. Bauer c7 - c5
18. Läufer g1 - e3
18. Bauer c5 - c4
19. Springer d3 - f2
19. Turm c8 - c6
20. Bauer f4 - f5
20. Springer a4 x c3
21. Bauer b2 x c3
21. Turm c6 - a6
22. Springer f2 - d3
22. Bauer c4 x d3
23. Bauer c2 x d3
23. Janus b5 x d3
24. Turm c1 - c2
24. Dame f8 - a3
0:1

Cool with me then, send them that link :)

Ed, my favorite page to introduce Gothic is your page "So why change chess?"
http://www.geocities.com/bow_of_odysseus/why_change.html
I liked the historical background, plus the 2 photographs of the Gothic sets.

Great, Jestone I see you are a big Janus Chess Fan! And I know that we need a possibility to download the finished games!

Sure, Ed. In fact, I've already brought one gameknot friend from England here -- bdk1. I'll try some others then.

I think it would be a good idea if everyone "invites" your chess friends from those other sites to play a game of Gothic Chess here on BrainKing. You can give them the "Game of the Month" link which is http://www.geocities.com/bow_of_odysseus/gotm.html which should get them interested in Gothic Chess.

Will you do this Terry?

When to resign & when to play on against greater odds is the eternal dilemma in chess. In this rematch vs bilal (he won the first one), I was considering resigning at about move #25, but decided "what the heck, a few more moves wouldn't hurt. After all, I do have my 2 januses." Well, I'm glad I decided to play on.

Game ID #62195

A few comments near the end...

25. Kb1 Je3 [I was afraid of 25…. Ra1+]

26. Qf3 [pure panic & blunder, due to unexpected fork. Better is 26. Qe1.]

26…. Nxf3
27. Jxf3 Qc5
28. Rc1 Nc4 [bad move, helping White get back some material.]

29. Rxc4 Jxc4
30. bxc4 Qb4+
31. Kc2 Qxc4+
32. Kd2 Ra2+
33. Ke3 [White K is running scared, & knows it.]

33. … Qb3+
34. Kf4 O-O-O
35. Ji5 g5+
36. Kg3 [Ah, a little haven for rest at last.]

36. … Rg8
37. Jxj7+ [A little spite check to feel good going down fighting at least.]

37. … Kj8
38. Ji5 [Threatens mate on 39. Jxh7 #.]

38. … Qf7
39. j4 h6 [A blunder, allowing mate in 2. The strange powers of the Januses.]
40. Ji6+ Ki8
41. J5j7#

my Gameknot name is ttrotter. for IYT & atlanticchess it's kaprekar. for worldchess.net it's tomcat.

-Terry Trotter, jestone

Whisperz is Whisperz generally everywhere except at Yahoo where Whisperz is Whipserzq (Monty Python fans will understand).

Does anyone here also play on GameKnot or IYT or some other site? If so, what are your names and which site?

--Ed

I would like to play this out, but I don't have a gothic set. It would be nice if we could play it out on the computer, though. If that is what was being said earlier, I'm sorry for the repetition.

Also, did you get my question about Professor McFarland at the Univ. of Wisconsin/Whitewater? I have a neighbor who teaches math at UCLA, and he says that a colleague of his is a graduate of UW, and that they are world-renowned for their excellent math teacher training program. I told him about McFarland's use of chess in his Finite Mathematics course, and he was impressed.

The professor may be interested in the math on this discussion board.

So true, seen in retrospect. As it turned out tho, I managed a single J mate. I just didn't quite know how to manuevre my forces well at that time. Thx for the tip.

OK, since we've started showcasing games (and mating patterns), here's my submission. The game is also accessible via my profile. (I would provide the link, but since Ed's link to Terry's game didn't work for me, my link probably wouldn't work, either.) I also won't claim that the game is "high-caliber", but the mating combination at the end is an interesting Knight-Chancellor mate.

good7972 vs. juangrande
1. d4 f6
2. e4 Ac4+
3. Ae2 Axe2+
4. Qxe2 Nc6
5. c3 d5
6. g3 Cd6
7. exd5 Na5
8. g4 Bd7
9. Bg2 Bb5
10. Cd3 Bxd3
11. Qxd3 Cf7
12. b4 g5
13. bxa5 Nh6
14. Qe2 Bg7
15. Nh3 Qd7
16. Bf3 O-O
17. O-O Nj5
18. Rg1 Nh4
19. Be4 Ch6
20. Nd2 Ci4
21. Bh1 Nj3+
22. Kj1 Cxh2#

You certainly had Munwest on the run. You could also have tried:
29. Bb7 ?? (move doesn't matter)
30. Ja6#

While I'm at it, learning how to post games to the DB, I'd like to show my first example of a one-piece (Janus) mate. Go to Game #49611.

here is the link to Terry's game.


BF_vs_Jestone

With only 7 Gothic games completed, I'm under no illusions about being good yet. but, hey, we all gotta start sometime. Here (Game ID: 67668) is perhaps my most satisfying win so far. It's vs an old friend & combatant, Blind Fury, who I met on IYT last fall. We've had many a tussle, he usually winning ... except in Gothic, where he has yet to beat me in 3 games. (Hooray, for Gothic!) I hope it is seen as good by others.

--Terry (jestone)

as a newcomer to Janus chess, I'd like to share with you all what, for me anyway, was a very pleasant & gratifying win, my latest, in fact. It features the powers of the 2 Janus pieces working together to produce a mate. I also gave up my Q & sacrificed a N to get to the final position. It was played vs ArnieTxx (Game ID: 67619). I hope you enjoy it.

-Terry Trotter (aka jestone)

I don't see why we can't have a "Pawnchucker's Mate" since there are mating patterns in chess!

Look at:

Morphy's Mate for a look at a Morphy Mate from 1859. I am thinking about having a mate with an Archbishop against a king not in the corner named after me :)