The Usurper:

I have still honorably stood my ground & debated my point.


Not really... You have based your argument in documentations that debunk the official conspiracy. Then we have given you documents that debunk those debunkings.(I know, its not really a word)

But we have not debated any specifics fact for fact. From what i gather, if we do that, your argument will come down to something like, "well the government refuses to release those pictures" or something like that, right? Or, "its not likely that all 3 buildings would fall straight down like they did", right again?

It doesnt make any sense for us to get into a point by point debate, when in the end it comes down to evidence that nobody has?

Your best bet to win a conspiracy debate is to have someone, a live, real person, who was part of this vast conspiracy, an actual eye witness, and like Dan said, in a conspiracy of this magnitude, it would not be hard to find one. But lacking that, the best you have is a he said she said scenario, and that is giving your side a real lot at this point.

Just watching something on the history channel.... seems there is nothing man or anyone can do to stop the coming of the next ice age

In fact, the best we can do is keep burning fossil fuels and that might slow the coming of the next ice age by up to 15,000 years....

Add to that, eventually the continent of Europe will collide with the east coast of the north American continent, putting a huge mountain range where NY city currently exists.... and ultimately the planet core will run out of fuel and the planet will simply die!

The Usurper: What now then, with Obama as President? Does he expose this, or has he only pretended to be everything that Bush wasnt?

The Usurper:

So, what happened to the flight 77 then, if not crashed in the Pentagon?

I agree about the butts everywhere.... I dont know where or when it got acceptable to use the ground as a place to throw cigarette butts?

People constantly throw them out their car windows, or onto the sidewalks, and it almost seems so common that nobody even blinks an eye at it?

anastasia: Well, that is what we get... a woman has a right to do with her body what she wishes.... but that we can understand that smoking effects more people than just the smoker, i wonder why we cant use the same logic with abortion???? The father has no rights, the unborn have no rights, its all about the woman, without regard to how her choices effect others.

anastasia: you're effecting EVERYONE'S health around you...not just your own


What about abortions?????? You think that effects only the woman who has one?

Artful Dodger: Thanks for posting those.... I was worried that I was going to have to waste my time looking for that stuff myself.

Anyway, i have yet to hear someone like Usurper, who talks about examining the facts of a situation etc, ever read stuff like what you have posted, then come back and admit they were wrong

The Usurper: I have not looked at any of the web sites you posted... but if I get the gist of this post, these are all web sites dedicated to debunking 9/11?????? If that is the case, i am glad I never wasted my time looking... and (well I have looked into this in the past) its too bad for you, but anyone that denies 9/11 like holocaust deniers, doesnt get much of a look when arguing other political topics
Sorry for that bud, but you are a whack job without a credible leg to stand on right now, IMHO!

The Usurper:

My main criticism of Obama is that he's too conservative. :o)


LMFAO!!!!!
Thats great, nice sense of humor Usurper!!!!

Jim Dandy:

I don't care how you judge his stimulus package, at this point it hasn't had time to fly or flop in its intended forum


I am not judging the stimulus package... I am judging his "handling" of it.....Using fear tactics, no bipartisanship, saying things like no lobbyists, except for a couple in my cabinet ETC... I am willing to let his ideas blossom and thrive before condemning them, but it is the process, which was part of his platform, that he has blundered in so far!

Worst fires ever in Australia!!!

Wheres Bush and Fema?????? Bush sucks!!!

anastasia: The thing is, how little time it has taken him to show so many signs of ineptitude! One would have thought that he could have held it together for at least a month without any major gaffs?

Problem for him is he is trying to do too much way too fast, and he keeps tripping all over himself....

Gotta wonder what she is doing with two different PR firms representing her too????

These slime balls are just waiting to get a piece of the huge payday she is going to get because of them... This woman is going to rich selling her so called "story" and so are the PR firms representing her.

Artful Dodger:

Whey did they do that? The US did something similar. We got 1200 dollars from the knucklehead government. They wanted to stimulate the economy. I put it in the bank for a rainy day.


I had heard that a lot of people hadnt spent their money like the government had hoped.... I personally went straight to sears and bought a new lawn mower and refrigerator!!


I dont know what people get from holding on to their money, really??? Its meant to stimulate the economy, and its money you didnt have before anyway, why not help out the economy and spend away???

You say you believe in trickle down economics, yet you horde a government stimulus incentive???


Shame on you AD and bernice too!

Bernice: What are you gonna do with your money?

anastasia:

to bad this board wasn't around for the past 8 years so we could have posted all kinds of republican bashing stuff all the time.....


Believe me, we had plenty of politics on fellowship boards, thats where a lot of this all comes from, a lot of baggage that you arent aware of, and sometimes it comes down onto you, and you arent sure why.

But, we conservatives spent a lot of time the past 8 years defending.... its a relief to finally be done with that, and its nice to throw some of it back now... even if it seems too much too soon.... But the most frustrating part is if the liberals who threw it at us so hard for 8 years, just turn and disappear now that the same things are happening in reverse, well that would be no fun!

Artful Dodger: yeah, its true, and i think Obama has finally figured this out as well.... I guess he had a meeting with some congress members and pretty much told them to get the pork out and to look closer at some of the Republicans ideas, like some of the tax cuts plans, and to get this bill in shape to pass ASAP!

This whole economy issue is bigger than politics, and politics must stay out of it!

I think the original version had only something like 20% that actually went to infrastructure! This is supposed to be mostly about pumping money into our infrastructure, wasnt it???

coan.net: okay, thanks, I am sure the information I got was at least somewhat biased, since it came from a Catholic nun cousin of mine...

Czuch: I mean.... I have a right to plaster myself with tattoos too, or plaster myself with booze, or even plaster my walls..... but does the government give me money to do it??????

President Obama is planning to sign the FREEDOM OF CHOICE ACT. (FOCA)
This is something he promised to do if he got elected.

Very briefly, FOCA would:
- Eliminate any regulations that currently protect women from unsafe abortion clinics.
- Force American taxpayers to fund abortions.
- Force every state to allow partial-birth abortions. (They are not forbidden.)
- Oversee the conscience rights of doctors, nurses and hospitals that oppose abortion.
- Strip parents of their right to be involved in their minor daughter's abortion decision.


Many people believe that abortion is murder..... and even though the laws say that a woman has a right to choose abortion as an option, where do we(our government) get off saying that people who oppose this should be forced to contribute money towards it????

Bernice: I use the word broke not to mean monetarily broke, but broken, as in it doesnt work anymore... that our system itself is fine, a blimp on the radar doesnt mean we need any radical changes like socialism will bring.

Bernice: ..Im only trying to stir him up because Ive found over the years it don't take too much

damn, I fall for it evrye time too!

Bernice: i hardly care... someone else mentioned they didnt like it to me, and I thought a bit about it, and just wondered if anyone else had felt like that... then I thought about the canadian anthem, which is the next most familiar to me, and i ddnt recall it ever being anything than the stoic version we all know...

I dont mind change either, but I like the saying " if it isnt broke, dont fix it" the US has come a long way on the back of capitalism and free markets, with many ups and downs along the way, whats the point in changing that? I dont mind a tweak here and there, changing times and technology etc, but socialism isnt a tweak, its a radically different direction... we are not broke even close to that bad, IMO!

Artful Dodger: no, you arent sure???

Artful Dodger: The point is that its a traditional kind of song... what if the army started doing it to their marching songs??? You sure you arent a closet progressive liberal?

Artful Dodger: so you think it is something to celebrate.....something succinctly American, that makes and helps us stand out as a cut above the rest?

Artful Dodger: Any recollection of another countries anthem being done like this?

Jim Dandy:

erratic weather patterns are example enough.

Erratic patters are common, there is no science to them, thats why the scare tactics about everything melting is a better tactic

Is it just me??? When did our national anthem become a pop song, ripe for the interpretation of these pop artists who sing them before events???

Sometimes they sound okay, but if you think about it, really, its our national anthem, there is one way it should be sung, and there should be no changing it with artistic impersonations!

BTW, do ever hear the Canadian anthem or any other anthems done so differently every time??? NO, you dont, and I dont like it being done to my anthem either, am I over reacting???

Jim Dandy: Thing is, its another example of democratic no win arguments.... global warming is really a misnomer, what they really mean is that man is responsible for all kinds of climate changes, that include snow and cold, not just warming..... so while they use scare tactics telling us that NY will flood when the Ice caps melt, they also tell you that the ice storm is a result of global warming as well... they just cover everything, and there is no way to prove them wrong, when every weather even is global warming related.


I just cant wait to see what they are saying in 10 years, long after their "tipping point with no return", and see what they are saying then.... I am certain they will say that they were wrong, and keep moving the tipping point back more and more... and they have the nerve to call republican the "scare mongers"?

The first Aussie to play in a Super Bowl game!

Artful Dodger: yeah... but the fun ones, like the bleeding heart girls, and the fence sitter moderates who always support the liberal agenda, the ones who cant support their beliefs in any logical discussion, those are the ones I miss!

But, their absence and silence says volumes about their opinions.....

On another note, it is amazing that all this history talk and most everything about this election was based on race and voting in a black man for the first time...... just another example how liberals are all about "feelings" over substance and policy... as long as everyone feels good about themselves, who cares about anything else!

Artful Dodger:

unless Obama has turned things around

I just dont think its going to matter.... the economy will turn around with or without Obama... but I think he will end up making it take longer than it would just leaving things alone, not to mention all the debt we will incur getting there.

I am still waiting for some anti trickle down, big bad oil company liberal to explain to me how giving the Banks and other big companies butt loads of my cash in a bail out isnt exactly what they complained about for years under Bush?

Artful Dodger:

Its the same ol.... biased to the left, main stream media... and sheeple (no, not she people, but sheep people) who blindly listen to the left wing media... and liberalism, that subscribes to the "government will take care of you" philosophy.... and again, sheeple, who again fall for the left wing garbage that the government will take care of them, and that it is the governments(federal) responsibility to take care of them... and again, biased media, that tells the sheeple that conservatives dont care about them, and will take away their social security and their welfare checks, and their affirmative action... blah blah blah...

You think this country is in bad shape right now???? This is nothing but a long over due correction, it is a good part of an economy that is basically doing what it is supposed to do, and there are no fundamental problems that can be, or should be fixed by throwing good money after bad....

You want to see a country truly in bad shape, truly in need of reform and change, just give us a few more years to see what social liberals will do to us!!!

Artful Dodger:

We had ice storms up here recently too, and a really big one about 10 years ago, people without power for 5 weeks!!

Thing is, we are a self reliant lot up here, we have generators and plenty of deer meat in the freezer (hahaha) and we look out for each other.....we are not a bunch of cry baby whiners (except for those liberal elitists down in the big city)

But we got nothing in the way of Federal help, and media sympathy.... 1 because it was under a media democrat, 2 because we werent out there pissing and moaning about how screwed we got for living below sea level and still refusing to evacuate when a hurricane is on the way!?!??!?

Hey wait???? I have an edit button??? Means only one thing... someone bought be a membership????

Ok fess up, who was it????

Artful Dodger: hehehehehe... we have a blog with one crazy Aussie lady as our only subscriber!

Vikings: Between "I am not a partisan Pelosi" and "taxes are voluntary Reid", its a toss up?????

Czuch:

new era of "social capitalism" in which government intervention and regulation feature heavily.

That is where we are heading here too with Obama and the socialist liberals....

How anyone can bitch and complain so much about our crappy government, year in and year out, and then support a system that features more government is beyond my understanding?????

Bernice:

seriously I don't know enough about your politics to comment without getting myself in a terrible mess...


You and half of our elected officials!!!!!! :)

I was just getting bored talking to myself and AD, good to hear your voice...

Bernice: HA! I knew i could get you going here!!!

But dont try to change the subject back on us....

I heard one republican trying to make a law where no ceo of a bailed out company would make more than our president.... Its funny, seems like liberals have turned with their power to republicans and visa versa???



Anyway... hot down under huh???

Artful Dodger:

As for the Bush haters, they are still there.


Im talking about the ones on here, like BBW anastasia and the like...

Artful Dodger:

Whats really funny / strange, is that typically I would expect democrats / liberals to want to hand out money to the poor helpless people personally..... IE give money to people to help them pay their mortgage or their heat or something like that... like you said, people could keep their homes and the banks could get paid back, and home prices would not fall so much due to the huge glut in the market because so many homes were foreclosed on!

Also, they spent years telling us how trickle down economics doesnt work, and years complaining about the big bad oil subsidies, and now look at them go!!!!

Pouring all this money into the big bad banks and hope it trickles down to the little guy.... have they really lost their minds this time??? Or have they been lost forever anyway??? ( I vote for the second one)

Well one good thing has come from this election.... at least we are finally finished listening ad nausea about Bush... I just wish they would stick around longer to get a taste of their own medicine.... but they arent interested in defending their chosen one.... because they just dont know how to do anything but complain!

Artful Dodger:

The House Democrats' bill includes $335 million for sexually transmitted disease education and prevention programs at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention


335 million dollars in an economic stimulus package for STD education??????

I hope there is a logical liberal around to explain this one to me????

Artful Dodger: Dont you see.... more abortions equals fewer babies equals fewer costs.... and I said liberals werent logical??????

Artful Dodger:


Well AD.... sorry to see you scared all the liberals away when I was gone for a few hours.

The thing they just wont seem to admit, and the reason they cant hang with the big dogs in any kind of debate, is that liberalism isnt built around logic, its built around "feelings" and "compassion", for which there are no logical end.

We can debate to no end, and without ever running away, because our ideals are based in logic instead of emotion, and in the end, that is what will eventually win any debate!

Just reading back a bit further...... I guess you might not be reading here anymore.... but when the UN gave Saddam another final resolution and backed it with the words "serious consequences", maybe you can remember, what it was the UN had in mind?

To me, the UN had technically backed the force able removal of saddam for breach of his UN agreements, but th ey just hand wrangled over it for so long... its like the child ready to jump into the water, and they stand there for so long, it takes a slight nudge to get them to actually plunge in!

We realize that this was a far more complicated issue than simply Saddam breached another UN agreement, and the serious consequences that followed..... the US was glad to see him breach the UN agreement, and there were a multitude of other reasons besides the UN breaches that the US had for wanting to get Saddam out.....

Anyway, to me, it is a far more complicated and complex situation than some in here make it out to be... its not clear cut on either side.... but just the fact that the Un had agreed to serious consequences for one last failure to comply, gives their technical "backing" of the US and coalition efforts to remove saddam.

Pedro Martínez:

I see, we agree, except that they were not reclassified before their capture?

One of the naked realities here is that the only reason they were actually captured instead of killed on the battle field is because of the intelligence we could gain from interrogating them.... take that option away, and given the send them all to court option, it is very likely that we will find far fewer prisoners of this type ever anymore!

The battlefield tactics will become far less forgiving....