(V): you sound as tho you are having a "nasty" against USA

Bernice: Nope.... Just read alot of history and watched documentries about in the ins and out over the last 60 years. I mean... how many people know we've come close to full scale Nuclear war twice?

(V): well there was definately Russia under Boris Yeltsin, and I don't know why but cuba comes to mind.....but please feel free to enlighten the "unread" of us LOL

Bernice: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis

Pedro Martínez: Thanks for that :) I didnt search because it was only 6.15am Saturday morning and a bit heavy to get into before I go to work ROFL..........

Bernice: 1983... The russian sats thought high altitude clouds for missile launches, if it weren't for a guys gut feeling that it was a false alarm.. well. ... ...

plus many times The USA's systems have 'malfunctioned' .

(V): BUT...to follow up on your how many people know we've come close to full scale Nuclear war twice?

more people than you realize I think

Bernice: Possibly, and possibly not. It's a cat situation.

Artful Dodger: ?? Which ones, the ones who need help.. or the ones who don't but it'll be good to have an enemy of your enemy on your side?

Yes.. Jobs will be lost no doubt. But how many and for how long, and maybe it'll give some of your corps more time to think together.

Artful Dodger: I think one problem with the bankruptcy route could be that most people probably don't want to chance buying a car from a "bankrupt" company, and if sales get even worse, there is even less chance of recovering.

I'm against the bailout though, but I do worry about that.

rod03801: the banks were bailed out...the auto will be given a loan they are saying (saying) they will pay back.
Why are the banks (AIG) not being held accountable that after the big bail out they sent their CIO's on vacations,not once but twice...and the banks used the money to buy out other banks....why is nobody raising hell about that??

I'm just going on things I heard or read - sorry I don't have examples - nor am I sure this is 100% correct, but I will try to post what I know about the automobile bailout.

As anastasia has said - it is more of a loan then a bailout.

Also, as I understand it - the UAW in their last 2 contracts have already given in on many things they had in the past, and as I understand it - the president of the union has also agreed that the union will take more cuts. As I understand it, the Senate wanted the union president the other day to promise exact cuts that the UAW would take, and even though he agreed that the UAW needed to do that - he could of course not give specifics since things like that would have to be voted on by all UAW union workers.

The Union president has also said that (as I mentioned about, the union already took cuts and willing to do more), that he also believes that the union should not be the only one giving back. The CEO's and upper management of the car companies should also give back. Also the majority of car parts are made by non-union companies, and even though the UAW has taken cuts in the past - management and other outside sources have only gained in the past. So as he said, the union is willing to do their part - but they also should not be the only ones.

Plus just to let people know - I believe unions today are almost pointless. I believe I lost my job 6 years ago because of the greed and uselessness of a union - so it's not that I'm pro-union... I'm just posting what I understand of the situation right now.

... and again, I say "as I understand" a lot since I'm not 100% sure of all of those - it is just things I have heard and read - so it might not be correct.

coan.net: I'm pretty much on ya with everthing you said...that is what our news is also reporting to us as of 6 pm today..
I agree unions are pretty pointless today,I know alot of people would string me up for that one,but I laso worked for one up till about 1 year ago and all they did was take my dues every week.
Upper management SHOULD give back....why the people for these compnaies make MILLIONS of dollars a year is beyond me

anastasia: unions is australia are practically null and void....thank the Lord for small mercies LOL

anastasia: thanks to the Iron Lady we dont hear much from the unions now in the UK

Snoopy: Ohhhhhhh yes we do, just certain practices are now illegal that they use to do when it came to strikes.

There have been quite a few one or two day strikes in the last year by various unions which they take if the membership do so vote in the majority. Plus all the lorry driver protests over fuel prices specifically 'duty'

... I've seen teachers and experianced the consequences of teachers striking, seen council workers strike, fireman strike, tube drivers strike, and many threats of such unless a compromise could be met over the unions demands (supported by the members) which would lead to a resolution to the problem or dispute at hand.

anastasia: Greed and the ability to give themselves wonderful pay rises.. It's the golden handshakes that get to me.... where some get it even if they've done a bad job and are having to resign or get sacked.

... In those conditions I don't think they should get a penny extra except what is owed to them under the same laws as average John by state law. Usually paid till the end of the month or what ever pay period is used.

anastasia: Upper management SHOULD give back..

If I were in congress right now, I would tell them that I would not listen to one word they have to say until each and everyone there begging for us to help them survive was to quit!

Only then would I be assured they have the best interest of the industry in mind and not their own well being!

coan.net: As anastasia has said - it is more of a loan then a bailout.


I dont have to read more than that right there to know it is a bad idea! If this was really a loan and a good idea, then there would be hundreds of private banks etc lining up to give them financial help! The fact that they are asking the federal government for help tells me straight away that they have no banks or other private institutions that think this is not a huge risk! Why should we take a risk that nobody else thinks is worth it?

What thet are asking for, pure and simple is a bail out, it is notever going to get paid back, using the word 'loan' is a bunch of crap!

Artful Dodger: I, personally, understand that.

For most people, a car is one of their biggest purchases. When foreign cars are already better (in many peoples' eyes), I think a majority of people will say, "Why chance it?" and buy from other companies.