I think it could be solved with a link that says "Autopass this game until I can move a piece". Even if the cube is an option you may want to click this link.

grenv: maybe with the vast influx of money with black rook membership fencer will be able to implement such a feature. It seems a lot of people are showing faith in fencer by signing up the black rook membership so it follows that he would return the favour and offer auto pass. Fair is fair

grenv: .
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Yeah! Simple, easy(to implement) and elegant!
As also a general option of "Autopass all games until I can move a checker."

Pythagoras: I counted 17 black rooks which is an influx of $5100 euros. With this financial influx a capacity for auto pass should be quite viable.

SafariGal: .
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maybe with the vast influx of money with black rook membership fencer will be able to implement such a feature. It seems a lot of people are showing faith in fencer by signing up the black rook membership so it follows that he would return the favour and offer auto pass. Fair is fair
I don't see how the increase of black rooks memberships can make Fencer to think more seriously to implement this!?!?!
Also from your words i may imply that you think there is a need for more black rooks to register in order Fencer to make improvements to some features other members ask. So simple(white) Rooks or Knights memberships aren't enough and they don't have the right(or they have it but they will be ignored since they are not black Rooks) too ask things as long as they remain non-black Rooks?


I don't think black Rooks have anything to do with what will be implement here.....

Pythagoras: The implication was that implementing the feature is somehow expensive.

However, I believe it to be a personal preference of the programmer independent of any real cost.

grenv: .
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You speak about cost. I wonder what is the cost of implementing such a feature
I consider it clearly as you say, as a Fencer's choice. Perhaps i'm wrong and there is a big cost for implementing this feature, but i just can't find any reason to have a big cost for that. Not even a small cost....

Andersp: *lol* true :)
it makes you click the link 'roll dice' because you can double as well (try it )

Pythagoras: Doubling when on the bar is not 99.98% stupid. There are plenty times when I pull way ahead of someone, bear most of my pieces off, and then get hit. In those situations, it often makes sense to double, as I will probably still be ahead when I get off the bar, but not so far ahead that I will get the gammon I was likely shooting for before I got hit. Moreover, people will often take HORRENDOUS doubles in situations like this. So auto-pass in a cube game makes no sense at all. But if it were available as an option, I would have no objection (who would?). I would just have it turned off.

My suggestion would be to have auto pass when cubing is not an option. This includes single games, rolls when your opponent owns the cube, rolls when the cube is dead, the crawford round, etc.

But options like "Auto roll until my opponent leaves a shot", "Auto roll until my opponent opens a home board point", etc. sounds like a cool addition.

pentejr: THat is exactly why the link should be there. In the situation you described you could choose not to click it, however in most situations you would.

I dont think anyone would double if there is no chance to come out of the bar, if they manage to get out then they should play the powerball instead of backgammon :)

and Pythagoras,,yes the my link works if you copy and paste it...dont ask me why it doesnt work if you just click it..i havent added anything.

Andersp: Actually I think the only time you'd double is if it's your last piece.

Andersp: As aggressive as you are, I'm surprised you would talk this way. Of course, the sense in doubling would diminish as the strength of your opponent's inner table increases. However, let's say I have three pieces left on the board and my opponent has two pieces back and a locked up inner table. I double in a heartbeat! What are the chances my opponent catches up to me before I get out and around?

pentejr: If one of your 3 pieces is on the bar then the chance of him catching up is very high, i'd say about 75%

Where is the bunny when you need him? Anyone care to do some rollouts on a computer to find out?

pentejr:.
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Doubling when on the bar is not 99.98% stupid.
Probably yes, i gave that number more or less randomly and i was wrong....But still the situations you described are more rare to happen altough not 0.02% as i've said.

grenv:
If your 2 home pieces are on positions 1,2 then the opponent has about 70% to lose.
If your 2 home pieces are on positions 5,4 then the opponent has about 62% to lose.

Pythagoras: Yes, i had it round the wrong way, with 3 pieces you should always win, with 7 you should always lose. With 4-6 it depends where they are... according to the research I just did. :)

grenv: I know you don't mean "always" win or lose. Are you referring to cube decisions?

alanback: Actually the "you should always win" should mean a >50% probabllity for a win.....
Although when people speak about "he should win now, it's clear!" they probably mean something like: "The probability to win is >70-80% "

Pythagoras: how about

you should win more often than lose?

SafariGal: .
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That is exactly the same with probability of >50% for a win.

Pythagoras: I was suggesting different wording grenv could have used

Pythagoras: Ah, I see. "Always should" rather than "should always"!

alanback: surely the use of the word "always" is fraught with misinterpretations

All: I always exaggerate the position for effect :)

Yes, i meant >50%, which is not the same as cube decision by the way.

SafariGal: The word "always" is one of the most unambiguous words there is. Used correctly, it should never be open to misinterpretation!

alanback: obviously in this case it was. So what you are saying then is that if the statement was taken for it's true meaning, it was totally incorrect in this case?

It's incredible how quickly the conversation always descends into pedantry

grenv: I got your meaning grenv

I followed the good advice (-s) to double LOL

http://brainking.com/en/ShowGame?g=1613042

not too smart imo :)

Andersp: But you had 2 pieces on the bar and were 100 pips behind, who gave you such advice??

Andersp: That's not even close to the position I was describing, so I hope you're not talking about my "advice."

pentejr: I usually resign in that position so i could as well double :)

Big Bad Wolf is right. If you win a game and then lose a game, your rating will be lower than if you lose and then win.

Hi, to 'The Best and The Fast Gammon Players,

This is an opportunity, check your weight against to other best players if you inside the top 10% any of Gammon Games.

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Match type: 3 points match with doubling cube
Tournament type: one match for each two players
Maximum number of players per section: 8
Final match type for two players section: 5 points match with doubling cube
Time control: Time: 2 days, Bonus: 3 hours, Limit: 9 days, no days off (red signed)

(That means after beginning you have 2 days (48 hours) for your first move. Per your another move, you'll have 3 hours bonus for your other move time. 9 days is limit time for the opponents, after the move of other side.)

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With your join to this Tournament, hope to play good matches and enjoy!

*********************************************


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2006 April : Top 10% - Fast Backgammoners 2006-04
2006 March : Top 10% - Fast Backgammoners 2006-03
2006 February: Top 10% - Fast Backgammoners 2006-02
2006 January : Top 10% - Fast Backgammoners (Invited)

Thank you!

I was having a conversation about luck and backgammon in a game recently.... I am told that luck plays 90% roll in backgammon. But to me luck is a 50 50 thing and even if it is a 99% thing in this game, it shouldnt matter, since we will all be equally lucky, and its the other 10% or 1% of the game that really matters? How are there world class players if the game is all about luck? I understand that luck can allow someone like me to beat a world class player in a game, which isnt possible in chess, for example. But it seems to me that luck is not as important as skill in backgammon, since luck will even out for all players in the long run?

Czuch Chuckers: The doubling cube takes away much luck of the game and usualy finals are played to 21. A Backgammonmaster introduced it once if I´m right. I think that the realy better player can be determined in a 11 point match up. Indeed there is much decided by luck in backgammon, that makes this game so pleasant to me :). Actually I think that luck and scill is balanced to 50/50 but it depends on the scill finaly, the more you have, the more you can risk a beeing lucky.

Every turn is a new cube decision. Always. Never forget. The biggest error you can make is to fail to double at the appropriate time.
Kent Goulding, 1991

A player who is savy with the cube will have an advantage over an opponent who moves the checkers slightly better but makes inferior cube decisions. Thus, it is vital to understand cube decisions in order to be a winning backgammon player.
Kit Woolsey, 2002

The doubling cube holds the key to being a winner or a loser. Good checker play will never compensate for serious errors of judgement on doubling. A good part of the skill is accepting or refusing doubles lies in being able to recognize which positions are gammon prone and which are not. In any position where you are under attack and have no anchor in your opponents board, you risk being closed out and gammoned. Many seeminly inferior positions can be taken when you have an anchor.
Paul Magriel,

And someone said I dont know who: you win games with checkers, you win matches with the cube.

Yes cube is too important, but i would not put its importance higher than that of checker play! Ask a simple question: Can someone that doesn't know to play a good checker play, have any possibilities to win anything good, even if he knows well when to double and when not?
The question of who has the advantage, someone with better cube play but inferior checker play against someone, is simply not well defined....
Anyway a general idea is: Checker play + Cube play are impartible! No one can go to the success room if he is good only to one of these....Both are needed.....

Pythagoras: Yes, both are important, but I would rate the cube higher. And the more "luck-dependent" the variant, the higher premium I would place on the cube. I've won multi-point matches of hyper on this site where I've won as few as 1/3 of the rounds.

pentejr: I agree the cube is very important, but even a good cube decision can be undone by bad checker play.

Hyper checker play is not all that difficult, so the cube seems very important here. I've found that many people miss an obvious double which ends up costing them.

grenv: Yes, I agree with everything you just said. I also found that when the cube was first introduced, hyper players would take the most outrageous doubles, sometimes giving up 4 (or 6) points where they should've given up just 1.

pentejr: I think that once you reach a certain level of checker play, the cuve becomes more important. A person who is horrible at checker play will not beat someone who is great at checker play regardless of skill with regard to doubling. But when the skill level of the two players are both high, the one who is a better cube player will often beat the better checker player.

grenv: good cube players double their effectiveness, where good checker play only gives one point

(all this combined with the actual value of the cube of course)

therefore i think good cube play is more important, as it the importance is double by the cube itself

luck can make up for bad checker play, its hard to make up bad cube decisions by luck i think

Hrqls: .
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They don't double their effectiveness! Imagine they double and the opponent accepts and they lose because of their inferiority at the checker play. So they have a double loss.....

Pythagoras: hmm true ... but isnt a good doubling decision also based on knowing ones capability to finish the game, and to know the difference in skill in the game ?

Marfitalu: true .. the whole game stands with analysis, both checker play as well as cube decisions depend on that

is anyone interestd in playing a live game of BG? I'm game

Marfitalu: That's what I meant. You can't make a good cube decision without being able to play the checkers.

I just won a game in hyper against someone with the exact same rating as myself. We both had established ratings. Somehow, I gained 10 points, and my opponent lost only 8. How? It's no wonder ratings inflate over time on this site, with stuff like that going on.