IYT ignores or is unaware of a fact that this site is aware of.most online users are fairly intelligent,liberal.they talk on/off line among themselves.good or bad customer service = the word spreads fast.this is also true for site performance.

May I ask you a question?

Why do you want to "eliminate" IYT? So you think the owner and customer service dept. has an attitude. So you think that IYT has become one of the snobbiest businesses. So you think they have the worst customer service.

Can I make a simple suggestion? Just don't go there no more. I mean if you don't like it that much, just don't play there. Ask any friends you have there to come and play you here.

I'm not trying to start any IYT vs. BrainKing (there is good and bad about each) - but the bottom line is you play where you like.

I think it is really good to let people know about BrainKing - BUT I think it is REALLY bad to talk bad about IYT and recommend another site in the same post. It is just the wrong way to do it. Also spamming different message boards with the same post is also not a good way to do it.

Again, I'm not trying to start anything - I just think you are going about it the wrong way. Suggest BrainKing, and let everyone decided what they like the best! :-)

BBW (BIG BAD WOLF)

no one is "spamming" message boards. Also, you say

"I think it is really good to let people know about BrainKing - BUT I think it is REALLY bad to talk bad about IYT and recommend another site in the same post."

why? I don't see it that way at all. It is a foregone conclusion that Gary and I will not be playing there any more, but we don't feel like leaving it at that-- IYT pissed off a lot of people and now they are paying for it! They deserve whatever bad publicity they get, it is their own fault. you make it sound as if the complaints against them are insignificant, you say

"So you think the owner and customer service dept. has an attitude. So you think that IYT has become one of the snobbiest businesses. So you think they have the worst customer service.
"

I am not sure what you are saying here-- it seems that you are minimizing the importance of these facts, when in fact, those are several major strikes agfainst IYT! Gary and I were paying members of IYT and like many others, we felt jilted by their terrible responses and service. We are encouraging people to play games at Brain King because Brain King has shown itself to be what IYT is not, and that is great!

I guess what I'm trying to say:

It is wrong to make things into a IYT vs. BrainKing. It is much better to say "Hey, there is a new great site called BrainKing. It's growing quickly. Come and check it out at: http://www.brainking.com" - that way you don't make enimies from loyal IYT players, and you get more people to come and check out this place.

BrainKing is a great site - and I think having negative things assotiated with it is just the wrong way to go. And I would think the owners of this site would not want that either. (but maybe they do... I guess I can't really talk for them)

I'm not saying there are not things wrong with IYT, but as a site grows - more problems come. Just wait about 6 months and see if BrainKing is having problems. If it keeps growing as fast as it has in the past few months, I bet you it will. (Hope not, but ....)

So I'm not saying there are not things wrong with IYT, I just think you are going in the wrong direction to get people to try BrainKing. But that is a difference of opinion which neither of us will probable change - so Good Luck in trying to eliminate IYT.

BBW (BIG BAD WOLF)

PS: That last paragraph where you say you are not sure what I'm saying here - I was just re-writing some stuff that Gary Barns had wrote.... that was all! :-)

"PS: That last paragraph where you say you are not sure what I'm saying here - I was just re-writing some stuff that Gary Barns had wrote.... that was all! :-)"

ok, but what point were you making by rewriting them?

as to the rest-- you mention it is not a good idea to offend the loyal IYT users. I have not met a loyal IYT user. If you do meet one, please have him contact me.

Also, you said the owners of the wite (Brain King) probably do not want anything negative associated with them. Who is associating anything negative with Brain King? The negatives are being associated with IYT....

(reply to Dmitri King message from way below)

What point was I trying to make by rewritng them? Well take a look at the very next thing I wrote - "Simple Suggestion: Just don't go there no more". If someone does not like a site, do not go there! (At least I think it sounds simple enough).

It is a game site. If you don't like how it is ran, don't go there. They have non-paid memberships so everyone can try out their site before they pay. If they do not like it, well try another place - there are more and more turn-based game sites comming up (including this great place - BrainKing).

As for the negative thing. When I see a post that puts down one site, and then turns around and tries to promote a second site - I PERSONALY feel that it reflects negativly against the second site! I know not everyone will agree with my view (and that is fine), but to me it just seems like the second site has people go out and destroy the first site. Even though the second site might not approve of what is going on (which I have not heard how BrainKing feels about it) - but to put down IYT and turn around and tell people to come here looks very negative to me.

I mean if you are going to do that, why not also post the bad stuff about BrainKing???? Don't get me wrong, I love BrainKing - but there are bad things here also. Why not include how it is hard to follow threads in the message board? Or how the Backgammon games will let you make illigal moves? Or how they also limit their free users - and you can only join 1 tournament at a time as a free users (and even if you are out of the tournament - you can't join a second one until ALL users in a section are done - not just you).

Bottom line: All sites are different (THIS IS GOOD). People should try all sites and play at what they like best. For example, I do not like to play at GoldToken. But, every once and awhile I will post a message on IYT about different turn-based games sites. I include GoldToken, LittleGolem, DailyGammon, and now BrainKing. Even though I do not like all the sites - everyone should find what they like the best - and if you do not like it, DO NOT GO THERE! (sounds so simple.... but I guess it is not)

And again - I know not everyone will agree with my opinion, and that is fine. Good Luck in your elimination plans of IYT.

BBW (BIG BAD WOLF)

illegal moves in backgammon allowed?please elaborate so I know what to watch for.

(I could be wrong since I'm not a gammon expert, but I'm pretty sure this is against the rules... please correct me if I'm wrong)

Lets take for example if you roll a 6 and a 2. Lets say only 1 of your checkers are able to move 6 spaces (and many to move 2 spaces)

So instead of moving that 1 checker 6 spaces, you move it only 2 - leaving the "6 dice" to do nothing, and you end your move.

I believe the rules are (and again, I may be wrong) - If possible, you HAVE to use both dice when it is possible. So the software should "MAKE" me move that 1 checker 6 spaces, and also move a checker 2 spaces.

I have seen this happen in 2 of my games here so far.

I'm not sure either - here usually we play it
the other way: of course everybody may choose
freely which dice to use first ... but I heard
of a different interpretation as well ... ~*~

A player must use both numbers of a roll if this is legally possible (or all four numbers of a double). When only one number can be played, the player must play that number. Or if either number can be played but not both, the player must play the larger one. When neither number can be used, the player loses his turn. In the case of doubles, when all four numbers cannot be played, the player must play as many numbers as he can.

For more info. on backgammon rules visit
http://www.bkgm.com/rules.html


Backgammon Galore

Goldtoken also allows the illegal move. I would like to note also that a lot of players do not realise it is an illegal move as they have never played on a real board. So they figure if the site allows it, then it should be. I am hoping Fencer fixes it soon :-)

I would suggest to keep both variations
- it's a question of agreement ... not
everything called legal is logical ... :) ~*~

You.."suggest keeping both variations.." but in fact, it is not a variation. It is an ILLEGAL move that needs to be corrected. I'm sure chess and checkers players etc. would not be happy if their opponents could have 'variations' in rules which allowed them to do something illegal.

if those variations are known before
I have the choice which I prefer to join.
as stated, here the move is legal. we even
have 3 legal names for the same game ...
you don't have to convince me though,
for me, software-dice are illegal ... :D ~*~

the thing is, if you are going to have a game, you should have the correct rules, they are rules which the majority of sites and players in the world follow.
So we should not have the illegal move, nor should we have draws in rated backgammon matches. I always figure if you are going to do something you may as well do it right :-)

as previously mentioned no need to convince me :)

I still beg to difer on simply going
with the majority and call THAT correct.

If I want to play a dice game I insist
on the correct way to roll it ... *grin*

that's why I don't play net-gammon,
but I'm no missionary to disrecommend it ~*~ ;)

'

Good or bad different strokes for different folks.I personally have not had any bad experiences with IYT or their custormer service department.In fact only good service... To do away with any one game site or anything else for that matter would create a monopoly, which would be very bad not only for game sites.This is relatively a new site.IYT has over a million players as to a few thousand here. How will this site be if it grows that big? To keep that many people happy is just unheard of.Sure voice your opinion to IYT staff and if you're unhappy don't play there. I'm sure they have a lot of satisfied customers too.Complaining about IYT at BK is useless and would be like complaining about Wal-mart at Sears.Some people like chocolate ice cream, while others like vanilla.If you don't like the chocolate,don't eat it....

I for my part would not state any critics here,
that I haven't directed to iyt support as well. :)

rather would believe that after several
successless attempts of requesting a closer
review of incorrect tournament progress my
12th complaint did not exaggerate reserved
style anymore :) I described that case on the
tournament board, here. did it not for selfish
just for the spirit ...

'don't eat the chocolate if you don't like it'
is missing the point a bit far. as I don't happen
to buy chocolate for one year in advance, we
'ate' promises that simply have not been kept ...

announcements from April 2001 still pending.

I'm certainly not the one who likes to
complain once a week, as founder of the biggest
iyt group at yahoo, always have tried to bundle
requests and to promote patience there ...

and my style forbids also to suggest lindalou
to stay there if she thinks everything is gold.

stereotypes rarely help ...

there are so many players worldwide, for sure
several servers for millions have their space.

may the competition of ideas bring out the best.

good luck yet, to brainking for the time of
the first bottleneck-effects that WILL come
as I am sure aware of its attractivity ... ;)

Happy St Patrick's Day ! ~*~

Lindalou, I must poitn out again that IYT does NOT have a million players. They used ot have the number of games played next to the number of registyered users-- and the number of games played worked out to about 1.8 per registered user. What does that tell you? Some people play hundreds or thousands of games, so the actual number of players is way below 1 million.

You say it is impossible to satisfy that many people?? What a cop-out! That is really lame. They should hire more people, or lowere their rates, NOT raise their rates and not hire more people. ALso, only a small portion of the users were paid members--- and even those people received poor service. They said they would look into a stats inaccuracy for me-- after a week of giving me total B___S__T reasons for the inaccuracy (which I easily shot down) they told me they would get back to me and never did. you say you never had a problem with them-- can you give an example of soemthing they did successfully for you? I know soem people who have had no problems, but they never had to request anything either...

Oh, heck. This isn't going to deteriorate into a slanging match board is it? You pay your money and you take your choice - except you pay your money after you find the site that best suits you.

I'm with loggerhead - who's got the ice cream? Let's party. I can bring a gorgeous brunette, a delightful redhead and, er, a bluehead. Oh, and a blonde I suppose (okay cariad?).