And from what I gather, it is not about a head hunt for Cheney, but about the secrecy of a program that some are saying that congress should have never been kept in the dark and as such were misled.

gogul: Which hell?? 4 types in the Bible. .....well at least in the original texts.

(V): I observe that it is the very choice of individuals to face hell [soon]. I'd go with the saying that they don't know what they do, and a slap will make the gate to heaven for some of the terrorists.

gogul: Ahhh so you mean the misinterpretation of certain verses regarding what happens to those who engage in suicide bombing and other activities involving attacks on civilians.

IE... they won't go to heaven for suicide attacks, and attacks on civilians is forbidden....

Like with all religious books it's a matter of interpretation.
... And those Muslims who pervert the Qur'an will face the same problem that those who pervert Christianity or any other religion.

... Separation.

(V): The Sharia is the same for the Muslims as the Malleus Maleficarum for Europeans. It doesn't take much to understand that, and Muslims better stop expecting that Allah is happy with them. For living in the past and not in the present, it's a Muslims choice to arrive in the present here and now. Yes, I consider the Qur'an as a nice piece of literature, that's it. If it can teach the Muslims decency, so be it.

gogul: ??? fairy tale???

(V): Honestly, who cares about the desert jokes bin bum laden and the fairy tale they are reading their lessons from.

gogul: Lots of people want Bin caught... unfortunately the USA started the Iraq war as a distraction.

.... was it due to Bin's family calling in a favour?? Who knows!!

There is a huge problem with trickle UP in Basel Switzerland. The rich here (nasty companies and the government) make to silver what is holy to the youthculture, and this with spiteful stubbornness since 20 years. What a joke to know these people still sitting on their chairs while everybody knows that they are no more able to watch them self in the mirror. If that continues, burrying will be just a matter of hygienics.

Some pseudo clever jokeheads want to hunt Cheney now for trying to eliminate some of the top terrorheads? I for my part want to see Bidens head r...d off

Czuch: Study economics, you might see why I see a difference.

... It'll end all those question marks

Czuch:

you are all over the map,

could that be called evasive action?</i>

(V): And we are not talking about trickle down, we are talking of uncontrolled collapse.




R u kidding me?? really???

Thats exactly what trickle down is.... when big companies support smaller companies who support their employees who again support other small businesses... and if the big guy falls, so too does the rest of them!


That is exactly what trickle down is!!!!!

and when Raygun was doing it, you said it was bogus, but now when bam is at it, well all of a sudden you think it is the best economic policy ever invented?????

Tuesday: So u 2 are not in favor of bailouts for the big dawgs because if they dont the little dawg will die too?

Czuch:  Trickle down usually means trickle on.

Czuch: I'm not others.. I'm just me. And we are not talking about trickle down, we are talking of uncontrolled collapse.

Don't you know the difference

(V): Anywho... my only point was originally, that when I used to complain that you cant take from the rich to give to the poor because we need the rich to create jobs for the poor, all I heard from you and other like minded people was how wrong I was, that trickle down was all hog wash..... and now all I hear from you is how we cant let the big guys go down, because it will effect all of the poor people who make a living because of these big guys!


Its all a bunch of contradictory crap from you all... saying one thing when it conveniences you and saying the exact opposite now, because it conveniences you now!

(V): it's a matter of economics and real life, rather then ideal models.


Well the problem I see with your way, is that now you bring too much subjectivity to the equation.

Who then decides what is too high or too low, maybe it is someone you agree with or maybe it is not anyway, its always a subjective call made by fallible and mortal humans, and you may like the decisions they are making right now, but how do you guarantee that will remain as such?

Czuch: it's the reasons why it's not good. I gave a hint by referring back to Pres Raygun.

Again... it's a matter of economics and real life, rather then ideal models.

and Btw.. if regs are in place no-one needs to micro manage from the government. As the auditors/accountants/lawyers by LAW will do it as part of the yearly accounts.

Do you understand that?

(V): Why... boards, cycles, and other things like Madoff.


So, boards are bad, but you trust some government bean counter to make better choices for us then? ...and what if the bean counter is Bush, for example, and has his head in the butts of oil? Then do you still want the government to make the decisions about where to use trickle down and where to not use it?

You just get into too much trouble when you start trying to micro manage everything... of course the free market has its pitfalls.... like you said with a democracy, its only the best we have found so far, but I dont see anything that tells me that a free market economy isnt the best we have so far, or that a socialized, micro managed economy is any better

(V): Trickle down..... Not good




Okay, now we are getting somewhere..... if trickle down economics is not good, it doesnt work, then why is it, in your opinion, something that will work in a bail out situation?

Bernice: I don't know... I can't talk for everyone or know everyone... do you??

And btw..... If you are against state benefits then I suppose you are against state pensions??

If you are.... then are you for the re-introduction of work houses?

(V): Or do you feel Parents don't work in looking after kids

of course parents work in looking after kids......BUT....why cant the "bludgers" do what the average man- woman does that has a family.....go to work, earn money and stop bludging off the system.....there is way too much of it...

Bernice: Bludge?? Those that are genuine, or those that are not? Those that are not get caught over here... But that are genuine....

... let's just say one lady looking after 3 kids found out that red tape had made her lose out for several years over a 'tick' in a small print box. Even though nowadays what she missed out on is automatically included. It's only because she was inspected that she found out what she was missing out on.

... The inspector said she deserved all the help she was due for the job she had to do.

You see you can be unemployed and still be working hard. Or do you feel Parents don't work in looking after kids?

Czuch: Trickle down..... Not good, it didn't work for Ronald Raygun

Why... boards, cycles, and other things like Madoff.

It's in reference to those who just work for a living,

really??

well what do you call people who bludge off society and live off the Govt?.......Tiny wee people?

(V): Then where is your answer about trickle down economics? Its a simple question, yes you believe in and like the concept, or no you think it is a faulty economic policy?

Czuch: I'm not..... You are just thinking I am. That's your fault not mine.

(V): See... I ask you about trickle down economics and you start talking about education?

Czuch: Well maybe you were looking to hard and missing my answers. I mean I studied economics at school... did you? Is your ed system the same, do you get taught the same history??

Nahhhhhhhh

Czuch: There are expressions and there are labels.

What is a liberal Czuch? Parties vary from country to country and from day to day in the political world.

eg Maggie set up the expenses system that our MP's have been abusing. Labour despite being in power for many years has not sought to reverse such a decision, and now all parties MP's are saying it's bad and they are sorry... but it was within the rules.

Figure it!!

Vikings: I extend from centre to which ever feels right by my own mind, by my conscience.

I see no destruction in that. There is more, but that is difficult to explain as it cannot be explained.

Organisations like this joke: www.gfdaf.org. Smudo and Eminem do more for American/German friendship as the idiots in there.

(V): Now looking back over the last 100 posts or more, I can see why its so difficult to debate with you... you are all over the map, you never seem to stay on topic, I still havent found where you answered my question about trickle down economics?

I wont even use the word liberal.... but many people who have debated with me about how trickle down economics doesnt work, are now the same people who tell me that you have to keep the big dogs alive to protect the little dogs.... do you see any contradiction there?

(V): ....I missed a lot here....

Are you black? Is it a stereotype to call you a black or a category? Its just what you are.... and if your views align themselves with liberalism, then you are a liberal

You Americans really accept Joe Biden as vice? Vomit factor is all I can say. At least we can say, we told you so.

Vikings: Isn't Bill Gates Californian? If so, I might be wrong, and he got robbed, then why Arnold Schwarzenegger feels to call California broke? 'Bill Gates $ 80 billion' should be pure comfort (I don't believe Gates ever owned something else than digital numbers). No, Bill Gates got broke down, because the anonymous leaders who at times let their ridiculous voices appear on faked radioshows don't want people around who could solve problems. They (the hiden leaders, lets demask Biden) don't want anybody above them, that's why bill gates get neutralized. I want their faces, their names, their organisations, not just their ugly voices on faked radio shows. Soon as that happens, soon as these cowards are unhiden, their end is done. And thanks God they'll suffer.

(V): this is why you get a liberal label

where it says promote, you want to provide, and where it says provide, you want to destroy

gogul: London and Manchester have pockets where violence can be bad, and the figures for violence are going down thanks to concentrated efforts involving communities, the police and the government.

I use "little people" as a term, not a label. It's in reference to those who just work for a living, yet businesses are reliant on for their success.

Imsoaddicted: How can I, when what they stand for keeps changing from day to day. I think Torchwood's last episode this week says it better then I.. you know... the PM trying to spin the potential loss of 10% of kids in the UK.

Vikings: In 5 words... and you missed it.

I need say no more, your constitution says it.

Liberals and socialists can fight all they want, but leave us conservatives doing our own stuff

Artful Dodger: Democracy is a form of government, like kings and lords, etc.... Just now we have elected 'lords' and 'kings' rather then lifetime ones.

It's just crazy that we elect our kings and lords without proportional representation.
Also it's crazy that we let them split ourselves into "us and them", which allows them to control us.

How much money has been wasted over "us and them"? how many WMD's have been created over "us and them"?

Artful Dodger: No... They are not liberal, they are just pre doctrine.

So there.

Pedro Martínez: "Liberals are conservative"

Wow finally. Over here even a radical can be a conservative. Taken by the roots of the words, I'm not ashamed to walk and talk with conservativism. I know enough so called leftists who have a conservative heart, allthough a rather nature loving like conservativism, things like fairness, let live and let die, stay cool, breathe before you talk. Of course it is appropriate to tickle the bourgeoisie. The bourgeoisie is willing to learn btw, yes yes I can see that, I'd call that a miracle if I didn't know it is bad conscience

(V):"what happens to the millions of little people"

They'll be big enough to worry about them self and their loved ones. It is now these days where people slip through the crack so badly, while others shamelessly profitate. If you got enough for your self, then why not take responsability for somebody else? Why attempt huge academical constructs like socialism or liberalism when in fact it is so easy? I don't worry about little people, I worry about the label "little people". Great Britain is strong in "producing" little people, a real shame how your government (no matter who governs) have let fall people. Great Britain is very fragile at the moment, go a pay some Liverpool kids train tickets to London, Manchester, and then see the anger.

Via the Wall Street Journal - Obama;s poll numbers are below where George W. Bush was in an analogous period in 2001:

[...] Overall, Rasmussen Reports shows a 56%-43% approval, with a third strongly disapproving of the president's performance. This is a substantial degree of polarization so early in the administration. Mr. Obama has lost virtually all of his Republican support and a good part of his Independent support, and the trend is decidedly negative.

A detailed examination of presidential popularity after 50 days on the job similarly demonstrates a substantial drop in presidential approval relative to other elected presidents in the 20th and 21st centuries. The reason for this decline most likely has to do with doubts about the administration's policies and their impact on peoples' lives.