Artful Dodger: Member of Parliament

(V):   Could you explain again the MPs?  Im too lazy at the moment to look it up but to me MP means military police? 

TheCrazyPuppy: Why the police... because they are having a tantrum.

I recon the papers should all start petitions for a full audit for all MP's!!

(V): if i made claims like this in a job i be shown door very quickly

but this goes to the very top of goverment the Prime Minister himself abusing the system so what confidence does the normal Joe public have in him now


lastest news is http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1178516/Police-called-investigate-leak-MPs-expenses-dossier.html


it dosnt matter how it was leaked we have has tax payers the right to know
so why waste even more tax payers money by calling in the police

TheCrazyPuppy: Should be out of their own pocket!! It's taking the mickey!!!!!!

(V): it beggars belief what some of the claims have been

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5293320/MPs-expenses-A-Z.html


on the day up in my area 3000 are to lose there jobs because Chorus lost a major contract and are moth balling one of there blast furnaces
this news hasnt gone down well at all here

TheCrazyPuppy: Yes, they are... But it's gonna happen for all parties thank EL!!

Because in truth, this scandal has been going on for decades. Really it's UK MP expenses. Also, the simple fact remains... how can we have faith in any MP that has abused the system of expenses, or uses that now boring cry "I acted within the rules".. The rules were slack.

In a company, the person cheating the company would get sacked... But MP's are a different breed!!

are a disgrace
some of the things leaked are crazy
horse manure
tampons for a male mp
broken toilet seat

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8039273.stm

HUH???

Was a bit rude the obscene Delaware trust, wasn't it? Seems interesting these Anglo-Saxon trust thing anyway. Is or should a Delaware Trust be reserved to (wealthy) Americans btw?

Ok let's try a voyaging coffee bean from South America to London. The passport of the bean gets stamped on several different sweet tax havens, cool islands under British control. It makes your cup of coffee cost about awful 70pc more. You know it can be traded differently, and your first thought is that you'd be willing to pay your taxes with these unjustified 70pc. Ever somebody asked Gordon Brown about? But hey, ok, I have nothing to do with it! I even don't know if you ever saw fair traded coffee. It costs about 15pc more than 'conventional' one, allowes sustainable farming and the worker a better life.

So no, I rather use this board for personal purpose. Down with the UBs, arguing should do it IMO.

Amazing

Pedro Martínez: that is just too funny ..........

Artful Dodger: Actually, there's more. The "Youth in Asia" was only a part of a discussion on medical ethics. Diapers on!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UST26RjBXvo&feature=related

Bernice: I'll never be able to go to an Asian doctor again!

Artful Dodger: ROFL........so did I....so nice to have a bit of levity hahahahahha

Pedro Martínez: Please don't post anymore links like that. I peed my pants!

Pedro Martínez: hahahaha...........youth in asia ROFLMBO

Bernice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya_uJHdOtdc

your thoughts on Euthanasia?

Dear Americans! Stop using obscene Delaware trusts and hide your money in good old Switzerland!

Let me recommend the UBS, this ssolid bank with exellent connections to the Republicans.


(kill it pls, a matter of entertainment

Czuch: Yep. I saw those anti-gay Christians on the news yesterday along with the news of the list.

Their website is so crazy... baroque, inaccurate...

And they reserve the right to not respond to emails from those they consider "not learned".

I'll see if they reply to my polite but frank point on that they seem to have forgotten certain core elements from the Bible.

Artful Dodger: It's not only them.. it's the civil servants as well that help keep it going.

Czuch: No, that's what we've allowed it to become. It's time our Governments were fully audited.

And I want Alan Sugar to go over and re-organise the Government here.

As recently reported over here, our 'leaders' have been taking the mickey (again another word is better but PG rating. ) over expenses. It makes me sick that they have been living on the gravy train whilst people are struggling ... But a full report is in place.. Something certain politicians don't want, but the opposition parties as well as members of the Labour party are behind the review.

I mean, an MP rips off the country for over £200k and only has to pay back less then £50k... That's not right!!

(V): In both parties. I'm sick of the Republicans as much as the Democrats.

(V): I don't think the government is the problem.. It's the politics involved that are causing the problem. Too much bickering, worrying about getting re-elected, etc, etc....

I'm sorry, but your emergency response system seems to have too much red tape.




Government is politics, and the red tape intertwined into the emergency response system, that is also systemic of the government. The whole government has too much red tape and other pitfalls..... look at our IRS tax codes etc.... Thats exactly what you will get when the government runs our autos and our health and anything else they run

There is no reason for me to believe they will be any better at doing these things than they are at the FEMA (federal emergency management agency) or most anything else they currently run right now.

Czuch: I think a lot of government systems need..... .... tweaking. And I'm being very understated there!!

As to Katrina... I'm sorry, but your emergency response system seems to have too much red tape. If I get the gist of the delay right.

I don't think the government is the problem.. It's the politics involved that are causing the problem. Too much bickering, worrying about getting re-elected, etc, etc....

As to in 50 years time... it'll be part of history.. as you say.. it will be talked about

(V): unless you feel that they are wrong and their plans just won't work, or are ill thought out.


I think they are ill thought out really....

If you print me a million dollars, I am sure that I can manage to work things out for a few years


Sure we can pump trillions of dollars into the economy and sure that will make things better, at least in the short term (several years maybe) But then what? You might say it is just a shot in the arm, to keep us going until things turn around? All good, except that things will turn around on their own anyway, and without putting us in debt and turning the autos and the banks and the health etc, all over for the government to run.


I love to listen to the people who always complained about the lack of federal response to Katrina and other complaints about the federal government. Yet those are the same people who would willingly put so much more responsibility into the hands of the very same federal government?

Reagan said it best.... the government cant solve our problems, they are the problem!

I think that in 50 years it will be the same argument about this recession, and how it was handled, as the great depression is today.

Nobody today can agree if it was the government stimulus, or if that really made it actually take longer to recover than doing nothing?

Czuch: Czuch.... I you remember my concerns with Iraq, off the reconstruction it was because of the lack of a plan.. which your Government of the time freely admits from what I remember. And if you feel it'll take decades for Iraq to be stable, then I feel sorry for the troops who will die from the lack of planning.

As the old saying goes "Victorious soldiers win first then go to battle, others just go to battle and hope to win." (paraphrased as I can't remember the exact wording )

Also one of my concerns was the need, I find it strange that Bin Laden and the Taliban did not get the attention Iraq got in terms of troops and logistics. That war would probably be over now, the one to get those who planned and executed 911!!!!

And if you feel things take time, then give your current Admin more time, unless you feel that they are wrong and their plans just won't work, or are ill thought out.

But.. the current feeling in the EU is that it'll be some time before we see daylight from this recession.

Bernice: Own it. borrowing it.

(V): But Rome was not built over night!!

You expect perfection, you expect things to fixed in 5 seconds flat.

Unrealistic.



My how your opinions seem to vary based on the circumstances....

Those are some of the exact same messages I have tried to use in regards to Iraq.... where you and many others have consistently over the years have complained how the US has made Iraq worse, and "where is this so called wonderful democracy" in Iraq etc etc.... I have always maintained that some things take time, even decades to change, and sometimes they get worse before they get better, and that the Iraqi people will not see, feel or appreciate (many of them) their new democracy (or democratic ways) for a generation or two.

But for you and your like minded buddies, its always been naysaying naysaying naysaying..... just try to remember..... Rome was not built overnight

Pedro Martínez: I agree with you....I was talking about something quite remote from what Jules was trying to change the subject to.......

Murder in the suburbs/schools, not children bullying, but I will stop now because he cant see past the end of his own street.
...........subject closed............

(V): ***Just in your case I would imagine you'd have to go through alot of hoo haa to get it sorted and lose money in the process.***

no hoo haa to go through here....if something is broken I get the proper person to fix it and I PAY FOR IT.....I don't live under priveledged, I own my spot on this earth.

TheCrazyPuppy: I'm not a politician.. I don't get fact finding missions paid for.

As I said, show me stats that prove that the Gov and other orgs figures are wrong.

And if the papers thought they were wrong, surely the ones I've read would report that!!

Pedro Martínez: yes your right
i was side tracked there sorry

Aren't there some fellowships designated for flamewars? The "discussion" below has nothing to do with politics, let alone serious argumentation.

(V): oh very funny
you know exactly what i meant
get out from behind your pc for once and go see for yourself

TheCrazyPuppy: You can see the whole of the country with those eyes then? Hooked into all the CCTV systems are you?

TheCrazyPuppy: Look for yourself then... DOH!!

TheCrazyPuppy: Try reading several sites like I do... The figures are not fixed. But you'll have to look into various statistical sites on crime to do that. Not just government ones.

TheCrazyPuppy: Of course you'll say all figures are fixed.

Bernice: the trouble with Londoners they still dont beleive theres life past Watford gap
they have everything handed to them on a plate so to speak

Jules should try visiting some of the areas i mentioned
and actually SEE for himself
not go by goverment stats which we all know are fixed to look good

TheCrazyPuppy: Mmmmm are you saying there is no news, no reports, no studies, no government papers...

Please.. I can read.

Bernice: They are fixing what was not done correctly. That's nothing to do with living in an "under privileged area", it's to do with cowboys who our landlords no longer use. And they are not cleaning our 'living area' up. They are making good to their contractual obligations. Just as you would expect if anyone did work at your place. Just in your case I would imagine you'd have to go through alot of hoo haa to get it sorted and lose money in the process.

We don't.

(V): i dont expect anything
im just saying that you cant know what goes on in the rest of the country

TheCrazyPuppy: You expect perfection, you expect things to fixed in 5 seconds flat.

Unrealistic.

Generations of bad habits cannot be turned around in two seconds. Generations of bad decisions cannot be undone in two seconds.

Bit by bit, day by day.

And please.. a global recession is a global recession.

TheCrazyPuppy: Nope... never said that. Never said there were no problems, never said the UK was perfect. If you read my posts completely you'd see that.

Good and bad in any way of life... that's a matter of opinion. IMHO some 'bad' things are problems to be solved, and such 'bad' things are just manifestations of problems we have ignored and brushed under the carpet in order to make life look 'prettier' for the sake of politics, etc.

As some people say.. how can you know there is a problem if you don't see it? It is not good or bad, it just is. And that you can see a problem gives you the opportunity to solve it. But if you just treat the symptoms, then you'll never solve the problem.

TheCrazyPuppy: yes, yes and yes......try telling them.....

TheCrazyPuppy: and yes.......I remember you saying that you thought you and Jules lived in a different country.....perhaps he is one of the idle rich and doesn't have to worry about things.........NOT......he knows what it is like to live in an under priveledged (sp) area, having admitted they are still trying to clean his currently living area up.....

as I said down the board.....there are none so blind as those that cannot see.

(V): try telling the thousands of ppl who have lost there homes in last few months
try telling the pensioners who have to decide whether to keep warm or eat that day
try telling the thousands of schoolchildren who are still bullied
try telling the thousands who live in fear of violent crime
try telling the thousands of ppl who have lost there jobs in last few months

that we live in the best country in the world

they will break down every piece of your argument into tiny morsels