ALL ISRAELI—BUT NO PALESTINIAN–LEADERS WANT TO END THE CONFLICT

“There is no doubt that the new wave (of attacks) in Palestine will wipe off this stigma (Israel) from the face of the Islamic world....Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury (while) any (Islamic leader) who recognizes the Zionist regime means he is acknowledging the surrender and defeat of the Islamic world....As the Imam [Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini] said, Israel must be wiped off the map.”

Sujet: Re: "Nothing will appease the Arabs except for the complete extermination of Israel."

modifié par Papa Zoom (4. Mars 2009, 06:48:39)

The Usurper:

— Speech by <span>Iranian
President Mahmoud <span>Ahmadinejad

AP , October 26, 2005

4. Mars 2009, 06:41:37

ALL ISRAELI—BUT NO PALESTINIAN–LEADERS WANT TO END THE CONFLICT

4. Mars 2009, 06:38:56

Ahmadinejad would like to see regime change in Israel. So would I, for that matter.

4. Mars 2009, 06:36:12

Sujet: Re: "Nothing will appease the Arabs except for the complete extermination of Israel."

Artful Dodger: That is not true. Iran has no national policy of destroying Israel. In fact, Ahmadinejad's comments were mistranslated. Read here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel

"And asked if he [Ahmadinejad] objected to the government of Israel or Jewish people, he said that "creating an objection against the Zionists doesn't mean that there are objections against the Jewish". He added that Jews lived in Iran and were represented in the country's parliament.[27]"

Iran is one of the most non-agressive nations in modern history. It hasn't attacked anyone. Not so the belligerent U.S.

4. Mars 2009, 06:32:03

Sujet: Re: "Nothing will appease the Arabs except for the complete extermination of Israel."

The Usurper:How many copy paste credits do I have? (found some good quotes

)

4. Mars 2009, 06:24:25

Sujet: Re: "Nothing will appease the Arabs except for the complete extermination of Israel."

The Usurper:Well, you didn't know I collectivized until now so that can't be your point about my caricaturing.

What is the national policy of Iran towards Israel?

Total destruction.

one down

4. Mars 2009, 06:17:33

Sujet: Re: "Nothing will appease the Arabs except for the complete extermination of Israel."

Artful Dodger: I don't think you can collectivize the attitude, that is too simplistic & results in caricature. That is my point, really.

4. Mars 2009, 06:13:36

Sujet: Re: "Nothing will appease the Arabs except for the complete extermination of Israel."

The Usurper:I don't think that's a fair comparison. We're talking about the whole of the Arab world and the collective attitude of the group. Which Arab nation openly and regularly supports Israel's right to exist? And which ones openly and regularly support Israel's ultimate defeat? Those that are silent can be placed in the latter category.

4. Mars 2009, 05:48:45

Sujet: Re: "Nothing will appease the Arabs except for the complete extermination of Israel."

Artful Dodger: Krushev (sp) said the same about America, but I doubt most Russians felt that way.

4. Mars 2009, 05:42:10

Sujet: "Nothing will appease the Arabs except for the complete extermination of Israel."

The Usurper:Except that the leaders themselves have said as much.

4. Mars 2009, 05:39:07

Sujet: Re: "But you don't understand the middle east mindset"

Artful Dodger: "Nothing will appease the Arabs except for the complete extermination of Israel."

I think this statement is a mischaracterization of most Islamic people. So I see that as a misunderstanding on your part. I agree there is plenty we both don't know.

4. Mars 2009, 05:34:10

Sujet: Re: "But you don't understand the middle east mindset"

The Usurper:"I believe your understanding of the Middle East mindset is more a caricature of reality,"

You can't possibly know anything about my understanding about he Middle East from the little I've said let alone characterize it as a caricature. lol Neither you nor I fully understand the Middle East to make fully intelligent statements regarding the policies, politics or attitudes they hold. At best we both hold misguided to uninformed to semi-informed understandings. ;)

4. Mars 2009, 05:26:50

Sujet: My Take

No people or religion can be judged by its extremist proponents or leaders, except that we use the same standard for all, and only to the extent that we are all responsible, at least partially, for allowing extremism to take root, whether in America, Israel, Gaza or anywhere else.

There are good Jews, good Christians, good Muslims, etc. Take the infamous "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion," for instance. I think this document is "legitimate," in the sense that it partly describes the means & methods for the rise of world dictatorship. But I do not believe it is a Jewish document, but rather floats under a "false-flag," if you will, thus utilizing the age-old strategy of "divide and conquer." Even if it WERE a Jewish document, it would not be representative of the Jewish people as a whole, but only certain elite radicals. Some elite radicals are certainly Jewish, but some are also Anglo-Saxon & many other nationalities.

4. Mars 2009, 04:43:18

Sujet: Re: "But you don't understand the middle east mindset"

Artful Dodger: I believe your understanding of the Middle East mindset is more a caricature of reality, than the truth. Certainly there are some hard right Muslims, just as there are hard right Christians. I don't consider either attitude healthy or conducive to peace. But Islam is smeared in America. Its people are sorely misrepresented. I'd hate to be an American Islamist about now.

4. Mars 2009, 04:37:07

Sujet: Re: Cease fire in Israel

The Usurper:apartheid is a bit strong. If you were surrounded by your enemies, who attacked you on with the intentions of wiping you out, (6-Day; Yom Kippur) and from the moment of Israel's "rebirth," they have been attacked. And if those same enemies vowed to drive you into the sea, and if those same enemies had as their holy book words written in it to kill you where they find you, then you might see things as they do.

It's easy for you with your Western eyes to look at Israel as the agressor. But you don't understand the middle east mindset and particularly don't understand the enemies of Israel. Nothing will appease the Arabs except for the complete extermination of Israel. Israel is NOT seeking their extermination and history has shown that they have put forth multiple efforts at peace. It is always the Arabs that break the peace.

4. Mars 2009, 04:34:00

Sujet: World Apartheid

"Global apartheid, stated briefly, is an international system of minority rule whose attributes include: differential access to basic human rights; wealth and power structured by race and place; structural racism, embedded in global economic processes, political institutions and cultural assumptions; and the international practice of double standards that assume inferior rights to be appropriate for certain "others," defined by location, origin, race or gender."

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20010709/booker

Statistics indicate that global apartheid is more severe than South African apartheid in its heyday.

4. Mars 2009, 04:25:41

Sujet: Re: Cease fire in Israel

Artful Dodger: I agree with you that rocket attacks on civilian targets is as unwise as it is immoral. Both sides appear to be guilty of this...although Israel has a bigger punch and so does more damage. My opinion, in general, is that Israel is practicing apartheid in the Middle East. This is not to excuse other terrorist organizations (Israel's practices "state terrorism") from heinous acts.

4. Mars 2009, 04:04:30

Sujet: Re: Cease fire in Israel

The Usurper: Facts and interpretations of the facts are two different things. Just so we're clear on those parameters. One thing that would have to be made clear to me, how anyone is justified in firing rockets into civilian targets simply for terrorist purposes. Nothing is gained for Hamas by the rocket attacks. They are meant to provoke Israel, knowing Israel will respond with a heavy hand. Then they can whine to the world about Israel's aggressive tactics. If I were Israel, I'd never have given back any territory after the 6 day war and Yom Kippur. The Arabs have promised to drive Israel into the sea and that is what they will continue to try to do. No matter how many consessions Israel makes, and they have made many, the Arabs will never rest until Israel no longer exists. This is a fact to which they themselves attest.

4. Mars 2009, 03:49:35

Sujet: Re: Cease fire in Israel

Artful Dodger: That is true. Some are more related to facts than others. That's always our goal, isn't it? To align our viewpoints with facts? A high calling, not always easy.....

4. Mars 2009, 03:48:13

Sujet: Re: Cease fire in Israel

Tuesday: Thanks. :o)

4. Mars 2009, 03:41:47

Sujet: Re: Cease fire in Israel

The Usurper:there's always an alternative viewpoint.

4. Mars 2009, 03:36:45

Sujet: Re: Cease fire in Israel

Artful Dodger: I'll look into it later tonight, and see if I can find an alternate viewpoint with facts to substantiate it. Or else see things in a new light. January 18...that's my birthday. I'm officially old now.

4. Mars 2009, 03:26:21

Sujet: Re: Cease fire in Israel

The Usurper: Looking at the current situation since January 18, where at least two rockets a day have been launched into Israel from Gaza, and Israel has honored the cease fire, what other way is there to see it? The Arabs firing the rockets are the good guys? Sure.

4. Mars 2009, 03:22:02

Sujet: Re: Cease fire in Israel

Artful Dodger: That's one way of looking at it. lol

4. Mars 2009, 03:20:17

Sujet: Cease fire in Israel

The cease fire in Israel goes like this.

Israel will cease.

The arabs will continue to fire.

Yeah, since the ceasefire in January, there have been 100 rocket attacks by Hamas onto civilian targets. That's 2 per day. And what is the world doing about this? They are raising money to give to Hamas for rebuilding. Really. And all that money will go to rebuilding Gaza. Not on your life. Expect to see more of the same. Gaza sends rockets, the US (along with Britain) sends Gaza money, and Israel will once again be alone against the world.

4. Mars 2009, 02:23:27

Sujet: Re: re: Problem-Reaction-Solution

Czuch: "Why bother with messy details anyway????"

You mischaracterize me. I always pay attention to the messy details. I highly recommend doing so, to anyone who wants a clearer picture of the world.

4. Mars 2009, 02:14:41

Sujet: Re: re: Problem-Reaction-Solution

Czuch: "Yes! and the culprits have names as well..... Nancy and Harry and Bam and the whole liberal collectivism movement"

I can understand your aversion to collectivism. The example of the former U.S.S.R. is both terrible & terrifying. But there is also the danger we face from the opposite extreme, i.e., the rise of fascism.

Some recognize the dangers of communism, but not those of fascism. Some the dangers of fascism but not communism. But they both meet in the middle of the political spectrum, as I stated previously. They both strip liberties and are totalitarian regimes.

4. Mars 2009, 01:52:26

Sujet: Re: re: Problem-Reaction-Solution

Czuch: "it is entirely possible to have a problem that isnt created by my government as a rouse to take away my liberty"

Sure it is, and I'm sure that happens. But think about what that means. If your government will use an unforseen accident as an excuse to take your liberties, then the threshold has already been crossed. It will also, if necessary, create "accidents" to take your liberty away.

Again, I don't think you deny that SOME governments throughout history have acted this way. There is Hitler's "Reichstag fire," started by the Nazis & blamed on the Communists, and used as an excuse to shut down civil liberties in Germany.

The bias seems to be that, while other nations might do these things, the U.S. government wouldn't. I have called this thinking "naive," not as an insult, but because it is contrary to the evidence. I have also called it "understandable," not to be condescending, but to express the fact that I realize this idea is very hard to comes to grips with for many of us.

4. Mars 2009, 00:43:10

Thanks Vikings. Wow. It's been a day. Normally I'm not on as much during the day (sometimes not at all) and that's why I put the board on approval. I'm keeping it that way for a bit. Then when I change it back, I'm kicking it up a notch with respect to on topic posts.

I will begin by first apologizing to the group for setting a very bad tone in the beginning of this board. I should have known better. I used the excuse that politics is an emotional topic (and it is) and that a bit of fur flying isn't bad (it isn't good either) and so the decorum was set. My bad.

Since I can't read minds, I can't assume the worst about posts. If they look like they might be directed at someone on BK, then it just might get deleted. The only safe post is one that truly sticks to the issue. There are many ways of doing this and I'm not saying we all have to be 100% polite. Speak your mind etc but stick to the issues. A tactful approach is a good idea.

3. Mars 2009, 23:41:01

Vikings

Sujet: Post Deleted

I have deleted some post, some were mine, none had anything to do with politics

3. Mars 2009, 23:30:14

Vikings

Sujet: Post Aproval

All post must now be approved until AD decides to change it back.
This board is for political discussion and debate.
IT IS NOT A BOARD TO CARRY OUT FEUDS
This has been going on for a couple of days with multiple people, If you cannot discuss or debate a topic without getting personal, I'd suggest you take it off your favorite list and not visit here
Also, not every statement that people make are personal jabs, if you're that over sensitive to remarks (from other cultures) maybe this isn't the board for you.
Remember that people from all over the world visit here and what is rude in one place may not be in another or vice a versa and if we went pc to everybody's sensitivities, all post would probably have to be deleted

3. Mars 2009, 23:18:55

I'll be back

3. Mars 2009, 23:09:46

"GERRY"

Sujet: Re:

Tuesday: I got a link off anglestar profile & it takes you any where.I was at wallmart on it today its a great link & alot of place's take pay pal.I'll look for it there Thanks:)))

3. Mars 2009, 22:52:17

"GERRY"

Sujet: Re:

Tuesday: LMAO really LOL:)))

3. Mars 2009, 21:15:57

anastasia

Sujet: Re:

Tuesday: that was deep....think I will meditate on that one tonight,LMAO!!!

3. Mars 2009, 20:29:01

3. Mars 2009, 14:53:54

Mort

Sujet: Re: "II think the great "heresy" that wove its way into Christianity is the idea of "separateness," that God is external from his Creation acting upon dead matter,

The Usurper: Well they can't have read the Bible if they say that.

In Genesis, it is very clear that we are animated with the breath of life from God, that we have a soul and spirit. It's also very clear that God created everything and as such El is in everything. It is also evident very clearly that this is a wise creation from Proverbs.

Yeah, I know the RCC in it's early years messed up by formalising the Bible, not so much in the formalising, but in the destruction of scriptures not included from the various churches around. King James then made matters worse.

Though they didn't do a complete job. Some old scriptures have been found and some records and works by various Christian thinkers still exist. Unfortunately alot was destroyed in order to maintain control.

But not all. eheheheheheheh

3. Mars 2009, 14:51:31

Sujet: Re: re: Problem-Reaction-Solution

Czuch: I see you're bright & bushy-tailed as ever this morning, Czuchers. :o)

Would like to chat, gotta run. Please continue & I'll come back & learn at the feet of the Master. lol

3. Mars 2009, 14:35:19

Czuch

Sujet: Re: re: Problem-Reaction-Solution

The Usurper: I'm not familiar with the details of the Port Arthur Massacre so have no opinion whether it constitutes an example of the Problem-Reaction-Solution model.

LMAO.... come on surp... go out on a limb on this one eh? If it walks like a duck, must be a duck right? Why bother with messy details anyway???? Go ahead and say it, and dont forget the part where Bush masterminded it as well

3. Mars 2009, 14:31:02

Czuch

Sujet: Re: re: Problem-Reaction-Solution

The Usurper: How does Katrina fit into you theory models?

Point is... it is entirely possible to have a problem that isnt created by my government as a rouse to take away my liberty...

3. Mars 2009, 14:26:31

Czuch

Sujet: Re: re: Problem-Reaction-Solution

The Usurper: The Problem-Reaction-Solution model postulates that we DO have unscrupulous government actors, even in Western democracies, who would like to reduce our freedoms and, if possible, move us into a dictatorship where their needs would be met at the expense of liberty for the people.

The best method for this, however, would be through subterfuge...i.e., get the people to choose less freedom in exchange for more security. This is where Problem-Reaction-Solution comes in as an effective means.

Yes! and the culprits have names as well..... Nancy and Harry and Bam and the whole liberal collectivism movement

3. Mars 2009, 08:21:00

Bwild

Sujet: Re:

Bernice:

3. Mars 2009, 07:50:24

Bernice