Snoopy: Yep. That was a step to far. But the democratic right of a group of people to hold a peaceful protest is still much used.

Ghandi changed a country and ended a war through it.

(V): what i meant was we dont have Winters of discontent and the unions holding the country to ransom esp the miners anymore has we did in the 70s

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7598647.stm

"The White House said a disorderly bankruptcy in the motor industry would be a huge blow which the US economy could not withstand."

anastasia: Greed and the ability to give themselves wonderful pay rises.. It's the golden handshakes that get to me.... where some get it even if they've done a bad job and are having to resign or get sacked.

... In those conditions I don't think they should get a penny extra except what is owed to them under the same laws as average John by state law. Usually paid till the end of the month or what ever pay period is used.

Snoopy: Ohhhhhhh yes we do, just certain practices are now illegal that they use to do when it came to strikes.

There have been quite a few one or two day strikes in the last year by various unions which they take if the membership do so vote in the majority. Plus all the lorry driver protests over fuel prices specifically 'duty'

... I've seen teachers and experianced the consequences of teachers striking, seen council workers strike, fireman strike, tube drivers strike, and many threats of such unless a compromise could be met over the unions demands (supported by the members) which would lead to a resolution to the problem or dispute at hand.

anastasia: thanks to the Iron Lady we dont hear much from the unions now in the UK

anastasia: unions is australia are practically null and void....thank the Lord for small mercies LOL

coan.net: I'm pretty much on ya with everthing you said...that is what our news is also reporting to us as of 6 pm today..
I agree unions are pretty pointless today,I know alot of people would string me up for that one,but I laso worked for one up till about 1 year ago and all they did was take my dues every week.
Upper management SHOULD give back....why the people for these compnaies make MILLIONS of dollars a year is beyond me

I'm just going on things I heard or read - sorry I don't have examples - nor am I sure this is 100% correct, but I will try to post what I know about the automobile bailout.

As anastasia has said - it is more of a loan then a bailout.

Also, as I understand it - the UAW in their last 2 contracts have already given in on many things they had in the past, and as I understand it - the president of the union has also agreed that the union will take more cuts. As I understand it, the Senate wanted the union president the other day to promise exact cuts that the UAW would take, and even though he agreed that the UAW needed to do that - he could of course not give specifics since things like that would have to be voted on by all UAW union workers.

The Union president has also said that (as I mentioned about, the union already took cuts and willing to do more), that he also believes that the union should not be the only one giving back. The CEO's and upper management of the car companies should also give back. Also the majority of car parts are made by non-union companies, and even though the UAW has taken cuts in the past - management and other outside sources have only gained in the past. So as he said, the union is willing to do their part - but they also should not be the only ones.

Plus just to let people know - I believe unions today are almost pointless. I believe I lost my job 6 years ago because of the greed and uselessness of a union - so it's not that I'm pro-union... I'm just posting what I understand of the situation right now.

... and again, I say "as I understand" a lot since I'm not 100% sure of all of those - it is just things I have heard and read - so it might not be correct.

rod03801: the banks were bailed out...the auto will be given a loan they are saying (saying) they will pay back.
Why are the banks (AIG) not being held accountable that after the big bail out they sent their CIO's on vacations,not once but twice...and the banks used the money to buy out other banks....why is nobody raising hell about that??

Artful Dodger: I, personally, understand that.

For most people, a car is one of their biggest purchases. When foreign cars are already better (in many peoples' eyes), I think a majority of people will say, "Why chance it?" and buy from other companies.

Artful Dodger: I think one problem with the bankruptcy route could be that most people probably don't want to chance buying a car from a "bankrupt" company, and if sales get even worse, there is even less chance of recovering.

I'm against the bailout though, but I do worry about that.

Bernice: Possibly, and possibly not. It's a cat situation.

(V): BUT...to follow up on your how many people know we've come close to full scale Nuclear war twice?

more people than you realize I think

Pedro Martínez: Thanks for that :) I didnt search because it was only 6.15am Saturday morning and a bit heavy to get into before I go to work ROFL..........

Bernice: 1983... The russian sats thought high altitude clouds for missile launches, if it weren't for a guys gut feeling that it was a false alarm.. well. ... ...

plus many times The USA's systems have 'malfunctioned' .

Bernice: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis

(V): well there was definately Russia under Boris Yeltsin, and I don't know why but cuba comes to mind.....but please feel free to enlighten the "unread" of us LOL

Bernice: Nope.... Just read alot of history and watched documentries about in the ins and out over the last 60 years. I mean... how many people know we've come close to full scale Nuclear war twice?

(V): you sound as tho you are having a "nasty" against USA

Artful Dodger: ?? Which ones, the ones who need help.. or the ones who don't but it'll be good to have an enemy of your enemy on your side?

Yes.. Jobs will be lost no doubt. But how many and for how long, and maybe it'll give some of your corps more time to think together.

Artful Dodger: .... The American government has been sticking it's nose into various things around the world and in it's own country for ages under both parties...

Cold war... even though there were alot of wars, and even thinking of using a possibly unsafe element called agent green on it's own soil.

.... And it's the governments job to help the people as best it can, it won't stop all the "chips" falling, but taking the edge off is like a doc given you painkillers for a cracked rib..... You know it's gonna take time to heal, yet at least you don't have to feel the worst of the 'pain'.

"the automobile industry can file bankruptcy and then restructure in such a way that they will truly be competitive on the world market."

And the jobs lost in the process right now in the midst of a depression, when jobs are harder to find... And what if the all American car makers get bought by foreign companies?

.... How would that look and feel to proud Americans?

anastasia: Billy Mays seems to think we're all deaf.Vince takes it to a whole other level of consciousness

Democracy is not perfect, but it's the best of all the government types tried so far.

Artful Dodger: Sounds like a time when we had a conservative gov.... or those private companies who price fixed building public works.

Artful Dodger: Nice story AD! About sums it up doesnt it?

anastasia: We take them to the drugstore and they dispose them.

Artful Dodger: ohhhh!! good topic!!!!

Artful Dodger: HA! NEVER!! honestly,I didn't see that you had changed the topic on the board,hehehe...you have your work cut out for you keeping up with changing that!!

that was a good debate you guys!! Now what topic will we argue about!!??? lol!!

I think it already has run its cycle....

But the answer is, a little bit of both?

coan.net: You got it.... sell them on the streets, thats the best way to get rid of old drugs, and profitable as well

Haven't you heard it's not all doom and gloom??

The boffins have already worked out a 'quick fix' if necessary. It's based on what happens when a volcano erupts. One of the chemicals pumped in to the air is sulphur which blocks the sun a little (or alot depending on the quantity)

So put some into a load of rockets......

Snoopy: Yep. That's the advice. Good one advice also.

anastasia: this might help
http://www.dep.state.fl.us/waste/categories/medications/default.htm


http://www.ecoearth.info/shared/reader/welcome.aspx?linkid=110440&keybold=Wilderness%20Roadless%20Forests%20Rainforests%20Indigenous%20Endangered%20Species

Snoopy: I THOUGHT we should eb able to take them back to the pharmacy here too,but someone once told me no...I should double check that tho...wonder how they get rid of them?? lol

anastasia: in the UK were told to take any unwanted meds back to a chemist for them to dispose of them

anastasia: Some "druggies" will take anything - and they will process the old med's in their bodies until it comes out as less harmful waste.

Foxy Lady: my sister in law use to dump her old paint down the sewers...OMG!
any clue on how to dispose of old meds???

Just curious how many throw old meds down the toilet? Stop and think what it does to your drinking water.

Eriisa: aww,ya don't like Vince..I mean"come on,we can't do this all day" lol

Jim Dandy: ROFLOLOLOL @ Sham Wow.

I think the Sham Wow guy would be more than happy to be Governor. and I used to think Billy Mays was annoying......

Vikings: we already have some here in the house..I do like the light they give,but really...how DO you get rid of them when the burn out?? recycle I would assume...but if they recyle them the way they are recycling on that story Nirvana posted then it is kind of a moot point....(I have been waiting to use that word,hehe..lil things make me happy :)

Pedro Martínez: I believe I had actually never commented on this issue here.

I know I am losing my mind now... I would have sworn... must have been Gogul, or Andre or someone like that who told me what an idiot I was for not supporting it (the kyoto)

anyway, I have debated with so many for so long on so many topics, no wonder I confuse myself!

Oh yeah, you supported invading Iraq too right?

anastasia: Well get used to it as it is already a law that all light bulbs here have to be those energy savings bulbs by I believe 2011. oh and you cant throw the new bulbs away either away

Pedro Martínez: maybe they will say...working with the knowledge that the people had then (meaning US right now) they tried doing what they thought was right.
You guys HAVE to use certain light bulbs?? I am not 100% sold on the new ones here,sure they save energy and help reduce energy costs to the people using them...BUT what alot of people don't know,I never knew till the news report is that if one breaks,say in my kitchen I drop it,I have to have speacial haz mat stuff to clean it (I'm sure EVERYONE has some of that in the pantries,right?)
because the lights contain mercury and everyone knows what murcuery does

Czuch: I believe I had actually never commented on this issue here. Simply because I didn't have enough information back then. People are being "massaged" by the environmentalist propaganda and it seems to me as if it has become some new sort of religion, at least here in Europe. Governments keep adopting new and new "green" laws just because it's popular and even if they see and know it's just not right to limit people's freedoms only for the sake of some unfounded catastrophic theory, they do not dare to oppose the prevalent opinion. I'm already sick of this. I'm not free to use the bulbs I want (because they're not "environment-friendly"), I have to pay more for diesel fuel (because it's not "environment-friendly"), my taxes are higher because the government needs more money to fight the global warming, etc etc. Where's the reason? Can you imagine the laugh, the blast, people will have in some 200 years from now, looking back at what we're doing right now?

Czuch: I do believe in global warming...I do know that the earht goes through it's natural cycles....I'm REALLY ok with people having different opinions as I do...I amvery glad to hear that even tho alot of you don;t agree there is a global warming problem you still recylce,and try to reduce what you throw away...and I know about all the posts,I added this one to my favorites list so that I never get to far behind on the posts,lol!!!

anastasia: Sorry, I kind of respond to them as I read them, there were 25 unread when I got here... I thought I remember a few days back on gen chat you were surprised that I didnt agree with the global warming crowd? Anyway, from what I read lately you seem to have moderated more on the topic, and although you are for environmental protection, you arent out there saying we need to ruin economies to keep the glaciers from melting and the sea from flooding NY.

Pedro Martínez: My bad memory I guess... seems to me you used to be one of the biggest supporters of the Kyoto Protocol and a huge proponent of 'global warming'?