rod03801: I get what you mean.. to say a side is squeaky clean is rubbish. We in the UK saw as much during the Expenses scandal when Conservative and Labour MP's were extorting money from the UK taxpayers through lax rules.

rod03801: Sometimes a movement will take on someone to try and show they are nice guys. It is often called a token character. Such was a popular concept when it came to films/tv even though the politics of the time were still predujiced against that character.

rod03801: I didn't say that.

"he COULDN'T truly believe and feel what he is saying?"

I never said that either. Perhaps you have not watched some of the spoof movies I have.

rod03801: Nope.. didn't say that. I said he seems to have jumped on the Tea Party bandwagon, and as is making a good living out of it. Don't forget to buy his book!!

This Lloyd Marcus being a conservative black American singer... Making a good living being the token black guy in a room/hall of all white folk. Is he getting paid as much as Palin??

The Republic of Nicaragua vs. The United States of America[109] was a case heard in 1986 by the International Court of Justice which ruled in Nicaragua's favor, and found that the United States had violated international law. The court stated that the United States had been involved in the "unlawful use of force", specifically that it was "in breach of its obligation under customary international law not to use force against another state" by direct acts of U.S. personnel and by the supporting Contra guerrillas in their war against the Nicaraguan government and by mining Nicaragua's harbors. The ICJ ordered the U.S. to pay reparations. The US was not imputable for possible human rights violations done by the Contras. The case led to considerable debate concerning the issue of the extent to which state support of terrorists implicates the state itself.[117] A consensus among scholars of international law had not been reached by the mid-2000s.[117]

U.S. foreign policy critic Noam Chomsky argued that the U.S. was legally found guilty of international terrorism based on this verdict, which condemned the United States federal government for "unlawful use of force".[118][119]

The World Court considered their case, accepted it, and presented a long judgment, several hundred pages of careful legal and factual analysis that condemned the United States for what it called "unlawful use of force" — which is the judicial way of saying "international terrorism" — ordered the United States to terminate the crime and to pay substantial reparations, many billions of dollars, to the victim.
—Noam Chomsky, interview on Pakistan Television[120]

The essence of this view of U.S. actions in Nicaruaga was supported by Oscar Schachter: "When a government provides weapons, technical advice, transportation, aid and encouragement to terrorists on a substantial scale it is not unreasonable to conclude that the armed attack is imputable to that government."

Following the rise to power of the left-wing Sandinista government in Nicaragua, the Ronald Reagan administration ordered the CIA to organize and train the Contras, a right wing guerrilla group. On December 1, 1981, President Reagan signed an initial, one-paragraph "Finding" authorizing the CIA's paramilitary war against Nicaragua.[

The main cause I hear for the USA's decline as an industrial power is just one. Those directly effected by WWII (actual harm to the economy or infrastructure from bombs, etc) rebuilt. China.. it changed from a 'communist' country to a mixed economy. Same with the old Soviet block.

Seems a mixed economy is the best.

Artful Dodger: You really do have no understanding of economics do you!! The banks were working via rules that were relaxed by federal law because the financial market wanted it so... A Republican government made it that the financial system could break reasonable laws on risk n' profit.

Your country spends about 40-50% of it's GDP on military related costs.

"Many companies can no longer afford the huge payouts to union workers. Reasonable pay is one thing. But unions force companies to fail with their huge demands and unwillingness to budge in their demands"

The German economy is one of the strongest in Europe.. it has worker representation on the board and vote in the hiring and firing of management.

"don't want fundamental changes to the country. "

... and what if those changes are needed despite what you want?

Artful Dodger: No people stated that it was a foolish policy, it was illegal, it was ill planned, Blair lied, Bush lied. That is not the same as wanting to fail, that is honest opinion.. Many people did not want to send our troops into a war that did not need to be.

As for waterboarding.... IT IS TORTURE. If you support torture by the USA then you cannot condone when other regime's do it. It is considered a crime by most if not all normal people and courts in the whole world.. it is considered a war crime by just about every court in the world.

Tuesday: It does seem to have gotten worse since Obama got into office.

Artful Dodger: !!!!!!

If you were to do the math PROPERLY... then you'd understand that this statement is as accurate as the old idea the Earth is at the centre of the universe.

$1,000,000 234 years ago is not the same as $1,000,000 now. For things like inflation the actual value of something bought, sold or borrowed, has to adjusted to allow for time. The dollar today (same with any currency) just ain't worth what it was back in da old days.

I used an online inflation calculator and it came up .....

... If you bought something in 1940 for $1000 it would cost, due to inflation.... $15,572.21 in 2010...... a rate of inflation change of 1457.2%

http://www.coinnews.net/tools/cpi-inflation-calculator/

Ferris Bueller: Or them using some old 'new deal' law that allows them to have a their cattle businesses graze free on federal land without the tax payers seeing a penny.

Ferris Bueller: I read about them.... going on about not letting people tread on you then getting compulsory sale orders on where they wanted a pipeline.

Nice... not.

rod03801: To a certain respect I can disagree. Our UK law though respecting freedom of speech also respects that people can go over the top. In that.. you are right ALL sides do it. Yet here in the UK .. criminal prosecution can follow.

Tuesday: ...... that is not a good sign. It also blows to high heaven this board's conservative element and them forever them harking on about how they have so little mediaon 'their' side.. guess for them radio and newspapers don't count.. or that of some strange new invention called "the in-ter-net"

Tuesday: What did happen?

Tuesday: Our last government bailed out the banks as did Obama even though Bush knew it was coming..

.. If they had failed, the entire financial system would have collapsed. Anyone wishing that to happen is either nuts, ignorant, stupid or a combination of all three.

Tuesday: Well if that is the case then the right does not deserve to be in power. Any party that gloats on the failure of it's government when such failure causes suffering to it's own fellow citizens is not worthy of being elected. Locked up in an asylum more like!!

What is this thing of Beck's... The Black Robe Regiment??

Why did the Mormons supply 30 out of 42 million dollars in the Prop 8 ballot campaign in California in aid to outlaw gay marriage??

Artful Dodger: We "libs" (as you call us) did not go to the lengths to disrespect Bush as you do Obama. We had a go at policy, mistakes as you'd expect.

As for free speech.. there comes responsibility.. you cannot moan in the future on how anyone talks about your hero's.. such as Beck and Palin.. or the Tea party.

The Col: Not seen any that I'd recognise by name... Me .. usually Golden Champion.. lovely Brit ale.

Artful Dodger: And Bush didn't.... what about Nixon??? Raygun was incompetent. Blair "sexed" things up in the Iraq war case.

"when liberals have no points to make (none that really matter) then always try to marginalize the opposition."

... Sorry, it could be said you are doing that to any liberal comment "they are left wing extremists".. or are you saying you are a victim of being in the political arena??

The Col: ?? Like we say with Fosters.. just save ya body the trouble and pour it down the loo!! American beers are not popular here. We've got so much good stuff made in the UK and EU.

The Col: It certainly would not win any awards over here in the UK or in Europe.

The Col: American beer.... is it real??

Artful Dodger: Isn't that what you are always doing regarding anything liberal...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11135500

.....Most of the arguments in favour of invading back in 2003 have come to nothing.

Many Iraqis welcomed the overthrow of Saddam Hussein - 50% regarded the invasion as a liberation, according to a BBC poll taken in 2004, while 50% regarded it as an occupation - but nowadays it is hard to find anyone who sees America as Iraq's friend and mentor.

Nor has the overthrow of Saddam Hussein led to a general domino effect towards democracy throughout the Middle East. On the contrary, America's position in the Middle East has been visibly eroded. Some of the things done by the American authorities in Iraq, based in the Green Zone in Baghdad, were sober, positive and practical. Some have become a burden, for instance the constitution the Americans wished on Iraq, which makes it fiendishly hard to create a decent effective government.....

...And because the Green Zone administration was thrown together in a huge hurry back in 2002-03, overseen by former Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld - a man with no interest in nation-building - some of what was done involved grotesque levels of corruption and mismanagement.

Mr Rumsfeld was sent a careful, conscientious 900-page report by the state department containing detailed plans for the post-invasion period. He reportedly dumped it, unopened, straight into his waste-paper basket.

Iraqis, and some Americans, pile a good deal of the blame for what happened during this period on to Mr Rumsfeld's ally Paul Bremer, the temperamental pro-consul who often seemed unaware of what was going on right under his nose.

Former Vice-President Dick Cheney, when asked by the Saudi foreign minister why the US insisted on going ahead with the invasion, answered: "Because it's do-able."

But the problem began even higher up.

A respected Iraqi dissident, who later became vice-president, has described how shocked he was to find, a few weeks before the invasion, that President Bush seemed wholly unaware that Muslims in Iraq were divided between Shia and Sunni Islam.

Nick Griffin says he is a Christian... his followers though are more interested in building walls (actual ones) and living in only white areas. Something about "vital bodily fluids" n' losing what it means to be British.... Apparently according to the BNP immigrants cause the indigenous UK population to be at risk.

The Col: ... were they serving apple pie?

Tuesday: If they were a 'fan'... yes. Beck has been open about his Mormonism for a few years now.. especially on his radio show from what I've heard

... He's not afraid to use God in all three forms to 'draw' people into his thinking. Yet it feels icky when he does it. God n' politics in one hit... that's a no no, ya not allowed to use God.. it's in the Gospels. Not even Jesus was allowed to do that.

Tuesday: I remember quite a few Conservative 'Christians' who said anyone who did not believe as they did ... then they were in league with the devil. Yes.. I imagine many of them who would like Beck.

It's that thing he does when Beck starts acting like he's from the "ministry of truth".

The Col: Scientology... a pyramid scheme.

.... Jedi Knight is better. At least you get to dress up in weird stuff

(V): No worse then all the others I've seen recently calling themselves 'prophets'. Jay and Silent Bob were so much more respectable!!

N' last I heard.. Conservative Christianity and Mormons didn't mix.. One 'born again' Conservative type use to go on and on and on about how The Mormon prophet was a big fat liar and his followers were deluded and on the road to hell.

Is this true anyone??

The Col: Well Beck has to do something about his future.. His ratings ain't what they use to be!!

Artful Dodger: He didn't.. He didn't retract and then pushed what he said into some weird pseudo religious thought.

We call that in the UK a NuTtEr!!

Tuesday: It reminds me of Brown during the run up to our General Election...

And he lost BIG style!!

Artful Dodger: The anti Iraq war rally here drew about 2 miilion.

Btw.. everyone thinks the actual attendance of the rally was in the mid to late tens of thousands. Those big estimates.. propaganda.

Artful Dodger: Sooooo.. everyone is allowed to have an opinion... true. Then anyone who isn't .. as it were.. 'in your camp' is allowed to disagree as per free speech. But you seem to be against that!!

The Col: Glen Beck is saying the spirit of God is wanting us to buy Gold through Goldline??.. Beck's sponsors!!

Artful Dodger: Does the article include all the costs involved in Iraq, or are they just (as it seems) using the war related defence budget spending figures.

.. there is also the contractors costs, the cost of all the equipment the US Military want serviced, withdrawal costs


..etc,etc.

Some argue that high US military spending allows other nations to spend less. But this view seems to change the order of historical events:

* During the Cold War, high spending was common around the world.
* High spending was reduced by allies such as various European and Asian countries as the Cold War ended (almost 2 decades ago) not because other nations felt they would be protected by the US — a dangerous foreign policy choice by any sovereign nation to rely so much on others in this way — but because they perceived any global threat from the Cold War had diminished and simply didn’t need such high spending any more; globalization of trade was supposed to be ushered in and lead to a new era.
* It was only the US as the remaining global super power that maintained a high budget. Many argue this was to strengthen its position as sole super power and that its “military industrial complex” was able to convince their public to maintain it.

Past empires have throughout history have justified their position as being good for the world. The US is no exception.

However, whether this global hegemony and stability actually means positive stability, peace and prosperity for the entire world (or most of it) is subjective. That is, certainly the hegemony at the time, and its allies would benefit from the stability, relative peace and prosperity for themselves, but often ignored in this is whether the policies pursued for their advantages breeds contempt elsewhere.

As the global peace index chart shown earlier reveals, massive military spending has not led to a much global peace.

As noted in other parts of this site, unfortunately more powerful countries have also pursued policies that have contributed to more poverty, and at times even overthrown fledgling democracies in favor of dictatorships or more malleable democracies. (Osama Bin Laden, for example, was part of an enormous Islamic militancy encouraged and trained by the US to help fight the Soviet Union. Of course, these extremists are all too happy to take credit for fighting off the Soviets in Afghanistan, never acknowledging that it would have been impossible without their so-called “great satan” friend-turned-enemy!)

So the global good hegemon theory may help justify high spending and even stability for a number of other countries, but it does not necessarily apply to the whole world. To be fair, this criticism can also be a bit simplistic especially if an empire finds itself against a competitor with similar ambitions, that risks polarizing the world, and answers are likely difficult to find.

But even for the large US economy, the high military spending may not be sustainable in the long term. Noting trends in military spending, SIPRI added that the massive increase in US military spending has been one of the factors contributing to the deterioration of the US economy since 2001. SIPRI continues that, “In addition to its direct impact of high military expenditure, there are also indirect and more long-term effects. According to one study taking these factors into account, the overall past and future costs until year 2016 to the USA for the war in Iraq have been estimated to $2.267 trillion.”

http://www.globalissues.org/article/75/world-military-spending#InContextUSmilitarybudgetvsotherUSpriorities

Tuesday: I think it's just normal human recognition that as 'white folk'... we really did screw up.

Tuesday: Murdoch will come up clean... as always. I thought the Patriot act was supposed to stop this kinda activity. If this Kingdom group has any links to terrorist funding... how did it go unnoticed.. I thought being a 'pro USA' organisation that if there was any suspicion (I'm sure Murdoch knows who his major stockholders are) they would have gone public.

But from observations on similar events over here... good stock movement means increased stock prices. Sky over here has been found to break rules.

Artful Dodger: ... Is that meant to mean anything?? All our major news channels over here include on a current event show, people of different views.

Jim Dandy: By getting her face seen. N' being 'blonde'

Snoopy: I can read the facts, just as I read about the reforms in the UK healthcare system re GP's and budget spending.

Snoopy: I've not said there are differences.. I've said our NHS works.

It's not down just to postcode. I've had problems with one service due to me complaining. But I got given the CEO's number...

Snoopy: You are saying the more seriously ill people get treated first... So?