Iamon lyme: It's why Bill O'Reilly is often asked why he interrupts his guests so much. It's because they don't address the point of his question. They often don't venture anywhere near it! So he keeps interrupting and they keep rabbit trailing. Once Barney Frank ask why Bill wouldn't let him finish his point and Bill pointed out that Frank wasn't addressing the question. Frank insisted he was but of course, he wasn't anywhere near addressing the question. For some libs, just making words come out of one's mouth is enough.

Artful Dodger: Do you suppose they know that we know rabbit trails are for children to explore? The darnedest thing about this is that there are some (semi-) valid points they could be making, but don't. I feel relagated to playing the part of wiseguy here, but that gets old pretty quick.

Iamon lyme: It would be nice to see a main point given the treatment it deserves instead of the constant attempts at derailment.

Artful Dodger: lol That occurred to me too, but if you post rabbit trail comments he'll just point out that you are off topic.. they live in two separate realities at the same time.

Drats!

The economy is so bad that: I received a pre-declined credit card in the mail. CEO's are now playing miniature golf. Exxon-Mobil laid off 25 Congressmen. Angelina Jolie adopted a child from America. Motel Six won't leave the light on anymore. A picture is now only worth 200 words. They renamed Wall Street " Wal-Mart Street". Finally, I called the Suicide Hotline. I got a call center in Pakistan and when I told them I was suicidal, they got all excited, and asked if I could drive a truck

Obama bests Bush in finger pointing: Google
Ed Lasky




One of the more annoying characteristics of Barack Obama is his habit of blaming others and pointing fingers to shift responsibility for our problems from himself to well...fill in the blank.

I never recalled George Bush pointing fingers that often to deflect attention from himself.

Just for a lark, I googled Barack Obama and "points fingers" and did the same for George Bush.

The tally : 15,800,000 hits for Obama compared to 12,100,000 hits for Bush.

Obama is the winner (or rather loser).

Now , keep in mind that George Bush served two terms as president and also served as the Governor of Texas for years so there was a lot more time for him to have a record of engaging in this type of behavior. Barack Obama was relatively undistinguished as a state senator before becoming a Senator for a brief period of time-and he has only been president for two and one-half years.

So Obama has hopefully only another year and half to build his lead in such a disgraceful category.

..............The Macquarie Fields riots were a series of disturbances across southwest Sydney in February 2005 which were referred to as a riot by both the Parliament of New South Wales and the media.

The riots were sparked by a high speed police pursuit on 25 February through the Glenquarie housing estate in the Sydney western suburb of Macquarie Fields. The chase resulted in the driver, 20-year-old Jesse Kelly, crashing the stolen vehicle into a tree and killing his two passengers, 17-year-old Dylan Raywood and 19-year-old Matthew Robertson. The trio had been under electronic surveillance for several days beforehand.[1] Certain circumstances around the riots including the fatal police pursuit in a low-income area were seen to be a repeat of the riots that took place in Redfern, New South Wales during the previous year.

.............Bathurst Riots, also known as the Bathurst motorcycle race riots and Easter Motorcycle Riots. These were a series of annual riots between 1980-1985 involving motorsport spectators, motorcycle riders and the New South Wales Police Force Tactical Response Group during the Australian motorcycle Grand Prix.

....................The main anti-globalisation protest was organised by the StopG20 coalition for Saturday November 18.[14] This march stopped at the police barricades in Russell Street where a festive carnival atmosphere prevailed. Some protesters moved to other streets[15], where confrontations with the police occurred, while most protesters who went to the main rally and march went home never being aware of the confrontations on other streets until they watched the news that evening.[16]

On Collins and Russell Streets, barricades were ripped down and pushed at riot police who were called in to help quell the situation. A militant group of protesters known as the Arterial Bloc[17][18], dressed in white clothing with hoods covering their faces, collected industrial bins and dumpsters and used Melbourne's tram tracks to slide them into barricades and police, resulting in minor injuries to several police, the most serious being a broken wrist. At one stage a police riot truck was attacked with its windows smashed.[19] By 15:00 local time, the nearby Grand Hyatt had gone into 'lock down'. The organizers of the protesters had expected up to 10,000 people to come,[20] however the number of people that showed was slightly over 3,000.

.............On Friday 26 November 2004 the results of the autopsy report were read to a public meeting by then Palm Island Council Chairwoman Erykah Kyle. Although the autopsy report was medical and did not state what caused his death, it did list possible causes which included that the multiple injuries sustained could have been consistent with him falling on a shallow concrete step at the Palm Island watchhouse.[2][4] The deceased was 181 cm tall and weighed 74 kilograms. Hurley was 201 cm tall and weighed 115 kilograms.[9] The injury may have been caused by Hurley falling on the deceased.[10] The Coroner later stated that the autopsy was "far too sensitive and private" to be publicly released.[11] Subsequent to the autopsy report reading a succession of angry young Aboriginal men spoke to the crowd and encouraged immediate action be taken against the police. Mulrunji's death was repeatedly branded "cold-blooded murder". A riot erupted involving an estimated 400 people, half of them school children.

The local courthouse, police station and police barracks were burned down. 18 local police had to repeatedly retreat; firstly receding from the station to the residential barracks, when the barracks were also set alight they (and their families) withdrew to the hospital and barricaded themselves in. Cars and machinery were driven onto the runway, blocking all aircraft movement. Even the (Aboriginal) volunteer fire brigade had stones thrown at them while they tried to put out the courthouse and police station fires.[2

Bernice: What's GBS? Who tells you it's painful?

1867 is an example of an element in British history ... at that time most Australian white folk were British. British convicts who were at that time brought up in dire conditions leading to ((ok at that time most things were a crime for relocation purposes)) high crime rates.

"Why can't you face up to the fact that POMS are renowned for their rioting...whether it be football, or for any other small minded reason the louts wish to "celebrate""

... we got taught in history classes about the likes of the the 'Battle of Central Station'... where soldiers went on the rampage in Sydney in 1916. Such was the effect (I now read) that hotels in areas such as New South Wales introduced early closing to stop it happening again.

Or the 1996 Parliament house riot described as a "very sad day in the history of the Australian political process"

....Every country has riots from time to time. Just because that's all that hits the news in down under does not make it the norm.

Bernice: This is exactly what I meant about misinterpretation The vid was just a joke actually sent by someone via Pugnacious Pawn
No one said no riots were going on in Manchester
This is one of the reasons why I do not post much on these boards simple because a joke or anything I seem to say gets taken out of context by certain people. I actually thought I wrote pretty good English even though I am probably not as good as explaining things as some maybe.
No one said POMS did not riot. We all know they do and I was actually enjoying myself posting on here for a change. Some people really need to lighten up and read things twice before they get all uptight and get the wrong end of the stick

(V): Yes and plenty of Gin was drank too! Much cheaper than tea! Most of my relatives went out there in the 60s for 10quid and a medical check. My dad was the only one who didnt go. I am now in touch with relatives I have not seen for 30 years thanks to Facebook. I love the internet! It opens up a whole new world for me and others who cannot communicate in other ways Although I think on these games sites a lot of misinterpretation happens.

Mousetrap: Well... they were British until forced emigration. And the UK has a strong history of local breweries. It was at one time safer to drink the local beer instead of water before we learnt about diseases and not to .. um.. do it upstream.

Gotta love history

(V): Not in down under! Yes its all anybody drank in those days.
Not really that much difference now

Mousetrap: I wonder which local brewery will have it's name up above the door. It seems loyalty to a brewery is strong down under!!

"Drunkenness was a prevailing vice. Even children were to be seen in the streets intoxicated. On Sundays, men and women might be observed standing round the public-house doors, waiting for the expiration of the hours of public worship in order to continue their carousing. As for the condition of the prison population, that, indeed, is indescribable. Notwithstanding the severe punishment for sly grog selling, it was carried on to a large extent. Men and women were found intoxicated together, and a bottle of brandy was considered to be cheaply bought for 20 lashes... All that the vilest and most bestial of human creatures could invent and practise, was in this unhappy country invented and practised without restraint and without shame"

— Marcus Clarke - For the Term of His Natural Life, 1867

(V): The next version is Shameless New South Wales or Shameless in down under

Bernice: Are you talking about Shameless or the estate program? Shameless is very funny in spite of the characters. No matter what happens they all stick up for one another.
I was not talking about tht one the Fergie made being funny. She did her best but I dont think she was really the right person to be making that program. It is not as though the people would relate to her even though she is pretty down to earth

(V): Never saw it. But did see the older guy in the movie Fargo.

Bernice: This video contains content from Channel 4, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.

Mousetrap: I suppose it could be funny as long as it wasn't happening to you....personally I can't see anything to laugh about...sad mentality those people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKloG5xyhKM

Mousetrap: ... http://www.channel4.com/programmes/shameless-usa

Bernice: Its nothing new. Been like that for years in Wythenshawe. That program goes back a few years and I think it may have improved somewhat but you ever watch the program Shameless? That is supposed to be based on people in estates like that. Very funny program though Not all council estates are like that. I have lived on one for first time ever for a while now and the people are absolutely the best. I have made loads of friends and it is a great community. It is the people that determine how good or bad an estate is.
It is the same the world over.

"....Fifty years after the US supreme court passed the landmark decision of Brown v Board of Education, which concluded that the policy of separate schools for white and black children was unequal and unconstitutional, thus outlawing segregation, Milwaukee is the most segregated city for blacks and whites in the country, according to the US census bureau. The November 2002 report measured residential segregation in the nation's larger cities using five indices, calculating clustering, concentration, centralisation, isolation and dissimilarity in the living patterns of different racial groups. The most widely used was the dissimilarity index, which determined what proportion of a minority population would have to be dispersed within a given city for each neighbourhood to have a representative racial make-up. In Milwaukee, 82% of the black population would have to move for each area to reflect the city's racial diversity.

Milwaukee narrowly beat Detroit to finish top of the nation's segregation league. Most black people shrugged at the news. "Not much has changed here in the last 40 years, so it didn't surprise me," says Allison. ....

....The local congressman declared he would call for legislation to provide greater scrutiny of the census bureau. "We don't want a federal agency coming out with skewed data," he said.

John Gurda, a local historian, does not share that indignation, but questions a survey that places Milwaukee so far ahead of other cities he knows with strong levels of segregation, such as Boston (17th) and Washington DC (23rd). "It depends how you skin the cat," he says, referring to data selection. "But there's an American racial problem, and it's obvious here. To some degree, perception drives reality."

If the differing perceptions of April's mayoral elections are anything to go by, it is difficult to see how the city could be any more racially divided. The two candidates in the run-off were Marvin Pratt, an African-American who was already acting mayor, and Tom Barrett, a former US congressman who is white. Eight days before the election, Pratt was charged with five civil counts of breaking campaign finance rules, primarily, it seemed, due to sloppy accounting.

Both the local paper and his opponent seized on the charges, which Pratt described as "mistakes not misdeeds"; he was fined $2,500. Most African-Americans regarded these attacks as racially motivated; most whites saw them as justified. On polling day, the vote split almost entirely along racial lines, with whites voting for Barrett and blacks and Hispanics for Pratt. Milwaukee has a population of around 600,000 - 45% are white, 38% are black and 12% are Hispanic. Pratt lost the election, 46% to 54%. His campaign slogan had been, "It's Time." ...."

Knowing American history as it is taught in the UK... I ain't surprised.

Former Delaware Senate candidate Christine O’Donnell walked off CNN’s “Piers Morgan Tonight” Wednesday night after being grilled on her thoughts about masturbation and same-sex marriage.

The interview opened with clips of O’Donnell’s appearances on MTV’s “Sex in the 90′s.” Asked about the appearances, O’Donnell stood by her statements on sex, but denied that they remain relevant.

“Well they’re not [relevant],” O’Donnell said, “because there aren’t laws outlawing sex, and if there are they should be on the local level, as I make the case for local control as opposed to federal control.”

Morgan then asked, “are you still a supporter of total abstinence?” O’Donnell responded: “are you the pro-masturbation talk show host?”

The host pressed further, asking, “have you committed lust in your heart?” O’Donnell laughingly said, “lets not even go there.”

The interview grew tense when O’Donnell was pressed to explain her position on gay marriage. After unsuccessful attempts by Morgan to get an answer, O’Donnell said, “I’m not running for office, ask Michele Bachmann what she thinks.”

Morgan inquired further, asking, “Why are you being so weird about this?”

“I’m not being weird, you’re being a little rude,” O’Donnell retorted. “Don’t you think as a host, when I say ‘this is what I want to talk about’ that’s what we should address?” Morgan replied, “Not really, no. You’re a politician.”

Artful Dodger: relativity... Interpretation.

Bernice: Maybe we in the UK know that is a cherry picked extreme. Probably the area is one of those experiments in housing developed by some architect on coke that now generally are being torn down.

out of the 100+ of shops in the area I live in (which was built and owned by the council originally, only 3 use shutters.. One being a chemist. There is very little crime, a great community, and we look out for each other.

(V):

Artful Dodger: Saying that x is not expected because of y is not answering a topic. That knowing some social dynamics and how some social reactions within communities is expected is not an answer and may explain why something is not big news?

Bernice: we have communities like that as well. Where many in the community absolutely trash the place and ruin the efforts of those trying to make it a better place to live (or just trying to earn a living).

Here's a news flash for the Libs of the world: Obama is on his big bus tour. He's not scheduled even ONE visit to the black community. NOT ONE! That's because he gets their vote for just being black. Which just goes to prove how utterly racist some blacks (many blacks) are. And it's an attitude perpetuated by the liberals of American society. Never mind that Obama has done NOTHING for blacks, all that matters is that he's black. (and only 1/2 black at that! What about his white half!!!??)

Many black communities are being destroyed by blacks themselves (while the powers in the black community blame the whites). More black die due to abortions than those that are alowed to live. Drugs, unwanted pregnancys, cycles of poverty, violence, murders - characteristic of the black community. And "THE ONE" has done NOTHING to address this growing problem. So much so is his lack of leadership in this area that even blacks are now starting to complain about him.

(V): Staying on point would simply mean addressing the current topic. Bringing in another topic seems to me to be a tactic to avoid answering questions.

Artful Dodger: Isn't that relative? Just as I think you'd classify the UK Conservative Party as being liberal!!

as for point.. who does stay on point? N' my point from my knowledge is likely to be different from your point due to a different environment politically. Some points I don't just get as they don't look like points rather than just expected reactions to actions... Newton's law of motions do apply to humans in some ways.

Have you got that point yet?

(V): I referenced your overuse of the charge of "paranoia." and to think this talk of communism stemmed from an aside remark that had NOTHING to do with the context of an article I posted. I should just post rabbit trail comments and you'd likely stay on point then.

Artful Dodger: He did flush out some communists out of the closet. He might have even flushed a real threat communist sympathiser out.

...... yet he still persecuted many regardless of what you say Americans have the right to..... freedom of speech and the right to think.

"but elsewhere you meant it as an attack on other thinking people. It's not parinoia if someone is really out to get you."

thinking about what.... their next book or DVD? Since 1949, war between the two main camps of the civilised world was not possible. First strike was an automatic third strike and out.

(V): Some say McCarthy wasn't parinoid. some even say he had it right. Apparently he had some pegged rightly.

But you use the term "parinoid" too loosly. You may have used it properly here, but elsewhere you meant it as an attack on other thinking people. It's not parinoia if someone is really out to get you.

Artful Dodger: I did know you know.. Thankfully the McCarthy paranoia that the US gov did back for a while has long gone. That degree of persecution in the USA over being "..a leftie...", "...socialist.."...or a "..lib.." died thanks to McCarthy's rabid OTT fanaticism.

fyi... The communist party was made out to a loony left group here by the establishment... but in the end, most in the UK worked out it was propagandist talk. Nukes didn't care what party you belonged to. N' the UK like Europe was bang in the middle.

(V): yes

Artful Dodger: Yes?

Artful Dodger: well then it is subject to your bodies hydrochloric acid, and dissolve.. just like a fly in a jug plant.

(V): BTW, the communist party is alive and well in the US.

(V): Not if you eat it right away

Artful Dodger: Milk keeps better in cold.. so does meat.

(V): It's simple. If your not right (as in correct) then your left (as in out in the cold)

Marching.. left right... left right..

Is it a communist conspiracy

Artful Dodger: Anything is left to you

(V): man made global warming has been debunked and the left is pulling out all the stops to keep their lie going.

It ain't a gonna work

An Unverifiable Mess
Time and time again, I have had emails from researchers who have taken random samples of names from the list and Google searched them for more information. I urge others to do the same. What you'll quickly find is either no information, very little information or information substantiating the fact that the vast majority of signers are completely unqualified in the area of climate change science.
For example,
"Munawwar M. Akhtar" - no info other than the fact that he is a signatory on the petition.
"Fred A. Allehoff" - no info other than the fact that he is a signatory on the petition.
"Ernest J. Andberg" - no info other than the fact that he is a signatory on the petition.
"Joseph J. Arx" - no info other than the fact that he is a signatory on the petition.
"Adolph L. Amundson" - a paper by Amundson on the "London Tunnel Water Treatment System Acid Mine Drainage." [PDF]
"Henry W. Apfelbach" - an Orthopedic Surgeon
"Joe R. Arechavaleta" - runs an Architect and Engineering company.
And this is only names I picked in the "A's." I could go on, but you get my point. The list is very difficult to verify as a third-party, but this hasn't stopped the Petition from bouncing around the internet and showing up in mainstream media.
Given all this it seems to me that anyone touting this as proof that "global warming is a hoax" completely misunderstands the process of scientific endeavor or has completely exhausted any real argument that rightfully brings into to doubt the reality of climate change.
Or, then again, they could just be in it for the money.

Artful Dodger: Anything is left to you

(V): typical nonsense from the left.

The petition first emerged in April 1998 and was organized by Art Robinson of the self-proclaimed "Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine" (OISM) [their headquarters are the Photo Inset].
Along with the Exxon-backed George C. Marshall Institute, Robinson's group co-published the infamous "Oregon Petition" claiming to have collected 17,000 signatories to a document arguing against the realities of global warming.
The petition and the documents included were all made to look like official papers from the prestigious National Academy of Science. They weren't, and this attempt to mislead has been well-documented.
Along with the petition there was a cover letter from Dr. Fred Seitz (who has since died), a notorious climate change denier (and big tobacco scientist) who over 30 years ago was the president of the National Academy of Science.
Also attached to the petition was an apparent "research paper" titled Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide. The paper was made to mimic what a research paper would look like in the National Academy's prestigious Proceedings of the National Academy journal. The authors of the paper were Robinson, Sallie Baliunas, Willie Soon (both oil-backed scientists) and Robinson's son Zachary. With the signature of a former NAS president and a research paper that appeared to be published in one of the most prestigious science journals in the world, many scientists were duped into signing a petition based on a false impression.

(V): atmospheric, earth, or environmental Ph.D. scientistsatmospheric, earth, or environmental Ph.D. scientistsatmospheric, earth, or environmental Ph.D. scientistsatmospheric, earth, or environmental Ph.D. scientistsatmospheric, earth, or environmental Ph.D. scientistsatmospheric, earth, or environmental Ph.D. scientistsatmospheric, earth, or environmental Ph.D. scientistsatmospheric, earth, or environmental Ph.D. scientistsatmospheric, earth, or environmental Ph.D. scientistsatmospheric, earth, or environmental Ph.D. scientistsatmospheric, earth, or environmental Ph.D. scientistsatmospheric, earth, or environmental Ph.D. scientistsatmospheric, earth, or environmental Ph.D. scientistsatmospheric, earth, or environmental Ph.D. scientistsatmospheric, earth, or environmental Ph.D. scientistsatmospheric, earth, or environmental Ph.D. scientistsatmospheric, earth, or environmental Ph.D. scientists

Artful Dodger:

(V): the KKK was never part of anything I posted. You just like to pull out your favorite logical fallacy: the non sequitur