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Pente & its variants.

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30. Mars 2003, 03:45:43

Pioneer54

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Sujet: Pente Versions & Validities

I learned to play Pente about 20 years ago or so, (on the 19x19 board, of course). It was a novelty among my friends and me for quite some time, but it wore off when we discovered that the first player usually wins, barring serious error.

So, I gave away my board and set and forgot all about Pente until I started playing Keryo at IYT, as it seemed to be an improvement. (However, I wondered why they used a smaller board.)

I find the keryo13 version fascinating, and while the first player has some advantage, I do not believe it is insurmountable or anywhere near as great as in all the other Pente versions. I do not know what my won-lost stats are as to colors; I've lost from both sides, but only two players at IYT have won more Keryo titles than I have, so these stipulations should carry some weight. (In contrast, I also played some pente13, and it is enjoyable, but I believe the first player has a much more marked advantage.)

Another appealing aspect of keryo13 is the possibility of edge play, which I find makes many games quite interesting because it can cause fortunes to reverse quickly!

I have also tried Keryo(19) here, and it is an even better version, although I don't believe this would in any way undermine the charm of Keryo13.

30. Mars 2003, 04:09:20

Dmitri King

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Sujet: Re: Pente Versions & Validities

pioneer54 does have more Keryo pente experience than I do. But, some opints remain true:

The game was not intended to be played on a 13X13 board. the edges do come into play, but that is more of a nuisance than anything else, for both players, I would say.

The existence of Keryo on a 13 by 13 board is a rsult of IYT's ewrror when putting the game on their site.

Player 1 has as advantage on the 19 by 19 board and on the 13 by 13 board. The opening restriction is essential, and it should be in place REGARDLESS of the size of the board.

I hate the 13 by 13 board, but I recognize that It is needed for web TV users. But, there is no reason not to have the restriction.

GOing back to what Pioneer54 said " It was a novelty among my friends and me for quite some time, but it wore off when we discovered that the first player usually wins, barring serious error. "

Well, I (and Gary Barnes alogn with me) maintain that without the restriction, it takes a serious error for player 1 to lose in Keryo pente. Gary and I ahve thousands of pente games experience, but not nearly asm uhc Keryo pente experience. Nonetheless, now that we do have some experience under our belts, we are willing to back up this claim. We are already engaged in playing several games as P1 (without the restriction) againast Walter Montago and Dangerous Mind, and we are probably willing to accept more such challneges (I would have to check with Gary). BEtween the two of us, we believe we can avoid the "serious error" mentioned and therefore always win as P1 (wiothout the trestriction).