It depends how many extras we'd be talking about, BBW! If they could access fellowships and post to/read boards that they couldn't before, then I think they would try to have more than one account. Or start a new name every time the 'freebie' test time ran out.
Its a difficult question really because I think there is already more than enough incentive for people to join. I couldn't imagine only having a pawn membership now. I really have no idea why more people don't join! A couple of people have said to me that they are waiting until there is 24 hour un-interrupted access. But I say its not THAT bad, and we know it is being sorted out. It sure hasn't stopped me from enjoying my membership privileges. I'd encourage everyone to at least try being a rook for 6 months, you'd never look back! Its not so expensive (lets not get on that again, its just a loose comment! lol) and worth it jsut for a trial if nothing else. I challenge anyone to try being a rook for 6 months then be happy to go back to being a pawn!

Yea, I think that Fencer should start trying (if possible) to limit the number of accounts that one person/household can make accounts with.

I mean they should not be a strict as IYT that bans accounts if 2 people use the same computer, but more probable could be done.

Then again, I don't think too many people who keep creating new accounts just to get "extra's" - I'm sure there would be a few, but I would think very few.

Yeah that all sounds good, but maybe much work to make sure that people didn't just sign in under different names all the time and take advantage of having the 'extra things' almost permanently?

Yea harley, I was thinking about that when I wrote it, but I'm not sure how to get around it.

Actually, One thing I would do is not just give them the first month that they sign on with the "extra" things like seeing a Fellowship - since a new user could take a week or 2 just to get use to the site, it would not let them really get to "know" the site. I would let the Pawn decide when to have a "friends of BrainKing" trial - where they can see the Fellowships, possible read more messageboard (if it was limited), use things like the friends/enemies list (if it was limited), etc..... (I hope I explained that well enough)

That all sounds very reasonable, BBW, the only thing I disagree with is the trial of one fellowship.
Suppose they choose one from random because they don't really know any of the people who are in fellowships, then they really dislike what they see there! Its always possible! I think most fellowships have 'slow periods' where there is not much posting going on and a lack of tournament games. If they hit a fellowship at one of those times it could create a bad impression and they may go away thinking they're not missing much.

Goal: Get more people to buy memberships

Ideas I don't like:

1. Limit Pawn moves (example: 25 moves per day). This is one of the things I hear as as the biggest complaint about IYT - and one of the reasons some people come here is to get away from IYT - so to do this may upset more people then get them to pay. Also, it can slow down paid members who play pawns with only a limit number of moves. ++++++ BUT, as a side question - what are some of the Pawns moving a day? Would it be an idea to limit pawns to say 50 or 75 moves per day? Where it would not hurt many pawn EXCEPT for the ones that take a lot out of this site for free?

2. Limit Pawns to 3 months. Like others have said, some tournaments/games last longer then 3 months, and it can hurt the ratings when people have to keep using a new account every 3 months

3. Limit Pawns to only "basic" games. For example, they can play chess, Backgammon, etc..... But they can't play some of the variations like Dark Chess, Atomic Chess, Crowded Backgammon, Backgammon Race, etc.... Only the "main" games". I liked this idea when I first thought about it, but after a little time of thinking - some of the variations do not get many players now - and to limit that even more might really hurt some of the games.




Ideas I like:

1. Limit pawns to how much they can post on the discussion boards. I would limit them to 2 post on most board (and let them post more to the "system" boards like BrainKing.com & Feature requests - since sometimes it takes more then 2 post to say things. Possible also limit pawns to only a few of the "main" boards to read? (This is a game site, and the boards are not part of the "games") Another idea to add to this is not allow them to post to any board except to the "system" boards with problems and such - and possible only give a 1 month "trial" of reading the other boards before they can't even read them either! (again, game site - not a chat site. This will not take any game play away from pawns - just "extras" away)

2. I still would love to see a pawn able to join 1 fellowship as a Guest for 1 month. This way they can see some of the discussion that goes on in the fellowship, plus see the tournaments and such - and possible if a pawn see's what is in a Fellowship, they might decided to pay to do more in the fellowship.

3. If there is a time of day (say between 5-7pm - whatever time zone) that is extremly busy and sometimes puts the server into the "maxed out" area, why not block pawns from signing on during this time period. This will still give pawns unlimited moves and play time during the other 21 hours of the day - but possible block them from even getting signed on during the busiest 3 hours. And if this happens to be the time that they like to play, they may possible pay some money to play during that time.

4. Drop the limit of NON-tournament games for Pawns to 10. And also allow them to still join 1 tournament at a time. (So if they happen to join a tournament with 7 games, the most games they can have at one time is 17) This will also help Pawns who try to join a tournament then find out they don't have enough game space.

5. Take other NON-GAME functions away from Pawns. For example, don't let them keep friends or enemy lists. Don't let them save boards. Don't let them see things like who is on-line. Limit the amount of "data" they can put in their own profile. No auto-refresh. Maybe even NO vacation for Pawns. (possible some other things that I can't think of right now) - But the idea to not take away any "game" things - but to take away other non-game things.

OK, that is all I can think about now.

BBW (BIG BAD WOLF)

for those virtually living on the site can't change simple arithmetics
i.e. less messages = less traffic
I don't mind them btw, as long as they also play board-games here ... ~*~

PS guess even 12 msgs per day should be enough
- they merely use a parallel messenger - bingo ...

I still say limiting number of games on the go will do the trick, less games = less moves.

Gubbe: Don't worry. If I like it, it does not mean that I want to implement it :-) It is only my first impression. Actually, there is one more drawback - if a strong non-paying player will create a new account because of deleting his old one, his default BKR will be set to 1300 [as for each new user] and it will negatively affect BKR of his opponents who lost a game with him.

Some observations on tony and una's points made (i hasten to add that i play here and virtually nowhere else and will continue to do so)

nobody wants to discourage people from coming to the site, and tony is not suggesting we try to.

the economics of this site appear to be such that fencer is struggling with both time and money resources to keep the site going in a smooth fashion at all times.

we therefore need the site to generate more money to support its operation, and one major way to do this would be to encourage non-paying members to become paying members, and certainly not to discourage them! the incentives to become paying members rather than non-paying need to be looked at, it appears to me that we are giving away an awful lot of bics to sell a very few and as a result the service being provided sometimes suffers.

tony's suggestion is one way to increase the incentives for pawns to upgrade. three months is a long time and pawns would get to play all games for free during that time. as una says, there are plenty of other sites which offer free games, so they are free to play wherever they want. if however the site gets so full of non-paying members that it struggles to provide a correct service to paying members, then that is not right, and that will discourage everybody!

it may be that fencer could consider some of the other facets of the site which could be made available only to members once they have upgraded to paying membership, without excluding non-payers who want to play games. it is already possible to create tournaments for paying members only, fellowships are only available to members. maybe 20 games is too many for non-payers, after all, they are getting to play for nothing - but then as una says, they enhance the site for all users so nobody wants to exclude non-payers at all.

at the end of the day i don't know what causes the problems with the site, fencer must do - is it just a question of money? how much money are we talking about? does the rate of increase in membership mean that fencer will get enough money to achieve his new server aims in 6 months? a year? 10 years?? be nice to know what you think about it fencer, you know what the problems are better than we do.

I'm a relatively new member here, transferred from IYT. I had two reasons to leave IYT:
1. regular down time (propably due to heavy usage)
2. restrictions for us non paying members (20 move limit).

This site isn't much better in aspect one, but I've enjoyed the possibility to really play here, not just hang around for 10 minutes a day. And I know I'm not alone...

I also know that us non paying members dont seem that important, but if we leave... A site like this needs a certain amout of players to work, and I think that brainking is hanging on the edge here already. I mean there are only 95 players online at this very moment.

So I advice you to think very carefully any changes to policy that might lower the amount of users on the site (I work for a company that gives advice on such matters - this one's free :D).

Anyway, good site (not perfect, but good). Keep it going. :)

Worries me that Fencer likes this idea. Does it mean that you dont see a solution to improve the site?

tournaments last longer then 3 months in many cases ...

I dare to remind of my idea to decrease the amount of daily
moves ( to 30 ? ) granted, after 3 months 'extended trial ' for pawns
- even allowing to join ONE fellowship for sniffing at all features ...

after those three months also the amount of discussion-board postings
per day should be restricted (to 20 ?) ... optimizing traffic as goal ... ~*~ ;)

I am totally against the idea of deleting pawns as has been suggested. A site such as this needs a certain amount of players to keep the tournaments and games fresh and exciting. Non paying pawns accomplish this, if you discourage people from coming to your site then the pool of new players disapates.
I am a member of the 65thsquare club. I spend, as do others lots of time promoting chess. Within our club we sponser and organize tournaments and play them out on sites such as BrainKing, ItsYourTurn, GameKnot and others. For every new member we bring from our club to BrainKing we bring a potential paying member. If a structure is established such that has been proposed I will drop my paying membership here. Chessworld for example was a site that offered a certain amount of chess for free to attract paying members. They cut the free stuff down to the point where you could not even play chess, so now I don't spend money nor play at their site anymore.
What it boils down to is a matter of economics. Sometimes you have to give away some free bic pens in order to sell them by the dozen. I feel there are enough benefits to paying members that it is worth it to me to have the membership. Others who may not be quite the chess enthusiast may not consider a value here. Just depends on what you want out of your chess games.

If I can't organize and invite members from my chess club to play at a site, I simply find a site where I can. Though this is a great site, it is of course not the only one in the world of chess.

Regards

Una

I see one obvious drawback. Say a member is in a game with a non-member at the time the non-members 3 months expire, this means the game is terminated. If I was the member playing the game I would feel I'm being denied the opportunity to complete a game based on a policy directed at non-members. I still say limitation on the number of games played as a non-member is the best incentive to become a paying member.

At Gameknot.com, where only chess is played, there are 12400 players, of which I estimate 10% are members. This 10% appears to apply at IYT also.

I like this idea. But it must be discussed though before I'll make such a significant change to the current system.
Anybody knows about possible drawbacks?

As a postscript to the previous message, if Pawns were restricted to 3 months registration, I would make them feel as welcome as possible, play many games with them, make it as hard as possible for them to be leave the site!!

Fencer - please would you consider this request.

Brainking.com seems to have reached a paying membership plateau of around 250 paying members. All of us payers need more members so that we may be sure that your excellent site will continue forever! I beieve that will happen so long as you get a decnt income from your site.

Therefore, you need to turn many more Pawns into Knights and Rooks.

Would you consider deleting Pawns after 3 months registration, with all their games and statistics. Even if they sign back on under a new name, they will have lost any ratings, etc. This loss may well be important to them and cause them to take out a paying membership.

I do hope that other paying members will support this request.

Ooops didnt work, just very happy:)

What does that say, TT?

How long are you going away for, Massimo? Don't forget weekend days are already holidays so you only have to put in week days. That will give you 7 days where you will not time out.

ok I think I will lose many games on time:-(.anyway thanks to whom replied and for the wishes.

But as Brain Pawn you can set only 5 days per year.

Yep, just double checked for you, its 'Settings, Calendar, Vacation and Weekend days'.
Just tick the days you will not be here and have a great holiday :o)

Go to settings, and there you will find a holiday page, where you can tick the days you want as holidays. On these days you will not time out.

hi everyone!may I postpone my games?I am going on holiday for 15 days and else I will lose all of my games on time.I am leaving tomorrow so please let me know.thanks

I had about a dozen games to be played and here i am 25 minutes later and I have played them all :)
Thank you so much and you deserve a round of applause....
"CLAP, CLAP, CLAP"

Observations: There were two deadlocks last night, probably caused by infinite loops due to non-synchronized threads in one internal Java function. It's gonna be the subject of the third test for today.
Average CPU load was about 15-20% which is very good [until a deadlock has occured]. It only confirms my theory that BrainKing application is very fast but it occasionally gets jammed because of multithreading and related issues. Good news are that it is not hard to fix, once I know where the problem exactly lies.

It looks good; thank you.

Thanks Fencer.. today no problems in resolving the page; it has been a smooth day.. Wonderful :-) Keep the good work going; we´ll enjoy each day more!

In g:):)d fellowship, ~*Radiant*~

For all your hard work!!

All I know is ... I'm impressed with all that Fencer has done here. I know that sometimes I'll get the 'server is full' screen, but usually if I hit the back button and then submit again, it'll go through.

thanks fencer for doing what you can, I sure appreciate it as I know a lot of us do.

I've just started the second test. Let's see the performance tonight [when the load is usually the biggest].

Good luck with your work Fencer, but we all know, or should know, that anything worth having, is worth waiting for. Thanks for all your hard work and a wonderful site.

Yes, according to my CPU and network meters, there was no big downtime tonight. But the work is not finished yet, I will continue today and tomorrow.

Well Fencer....I dont know if you have started to fix the bits you thought you knew were sorta broke LOL, but access has improved 85%:)

Nothing unusual :-)

i mean, waht side effects will that have to the site during the weekend? :-) If so, could you give us an estimate?

Does that mean, the site will be down the whole weekend?

Bastille Day should not be forgotten though ... :) ~*~

Fencer, if you're planning on making the independence days of all nations public holidays here at BK there won't be many regular days left in a year.

Maybe I've found out what's wrong at last. I'm gonna spend this whole weekend experimenting with my new ideas.

I logged into this site at 3pm my time approx...I had 7 games waiting...it is now 6.08pm and I have just played the 7th game....I know Fencer is sick of hearing these SLOW game complaints but yesterday I had REAl trouble and had to leave some game :(
You do a good job mate and we really appreciate it....this is just for your information....not a complaint :)

Thank You, and you have a nice weekend Fencer.

Ellie: Done.

CET says it's Independence Day since 4 hours ... :D

Best Oldish European Wishes to the
Brain-kings of a Young and Strong Nation ...

May soon a visionary president declare, she is the only one
capable of acchieving, the goal to get all industries too dangerous
for a biosphere, into orbital stations, yet before this century is over,
- not because it is easy but, because it is difficult ...
... - and, because she cAn ...

God Bless America ... ~*~

'

tomorrow is the 4th. of july, that is a holiday here in the states, is it going to be a site holiday. Happy 4th. to all.
thx.

I think a good suggestion would be to examine the rating system Dweebo uses at Dweebo's Stone games. The formula is similar, but would not have some of the odd results obtained with the current brain King formula.