Artful Dodger: Young drivers pay more in insurance, it could be stated that a 'P' plate could be made law so you know if the driver is inexperianced.

Guns.. The gun law was designed to stop another 'imperial war', not to allow wanna be's GI's own enough hardware to take out a town! And it wasn't designed to mean IMHO that having the right to bear arms means you can be irresponsible with a deadly weapon.

If those who want smaller gov through responsible citizens then let them be responsible and lock up or get rid of that which is strickly speaking a 'toy for a big kid'.

.. most people only have two hands. The likes of Rambo and Arnie in his action days only carried two firearms at the time.

Ferris Bueller: Safety nets are already in place in principle, and with all probability I can see *cough* death panels (to misquote a extreme right winger phrase) to look at each case. That a mother was cleared of wrong doing in helping her daughter shows that the UK legal system will investigate any assisted suicides and make sure it was a genuine case.

Pedro Martínez: One of my relatives got concerned I know how to make thermite and the plastic version of it... Went on about terrotists and all.. I admit I like fire.. love a bonfire. But I have respect for what it is.

Artful Dodger: I'm not against people having guns, but if there is a problem with kids getting guns via their parents, it is the responsible thing to sort that out. Instead of busting people for stupid things like posessing weed, (700,000 of the them in US jails helping the war effort) sort out those parents and make the USA a safer place.

It won't cure all, but it's a reasonable start.

Ferris Bueller: One step at a time, I think it's a long way from as such (re an old sci fi book) a 'suicide' switch gets designed. Quite frankly being a spiritualist I don't see it being a choice but the right thing to do. Bodies break, they are biological machines. Conciousness is a different matter. And from a personal experiance point of view... Long term illness can be a right bugger... There are worse things than discorporation. Things that make hell look like a nice day on the beach.

Artful Dodger: Well, maybe he's not 100% accurate then. But how do children in the USA get to get firearms legally so easily? You cannot drink till you are over 21 in the US so why not similar rules for firearms?

Over here when joe public could own a gun for shooting at a shooting club they had to be approved by the police and store the firearms in locked bolted down heavy duty metal boxes. Also they had to be stored that a thief would have to break open both to have a usable weapon, as the gun had to broken down into two parts. Eg with a rifle remove the bolt mechanism.

Bernice: I know, it is sad. He's one of the greatest author's of today... Much better than that Harry Potter woman. The Belgariad series is far better ;)

Yet it looks like he will turn his illness into a blessing for the rest of us Brits. Finally we will lawfully be able to die in dignity.

Bernice: Let us say he did the 34th Richard Dimbleby lecture on Feb 1st this year and Tony Robinson had to deliver it for him. It was called "Shaking Hands with Death"

Artful Dodger: No, he said there has not been a "Columbine" type killing spree by a black kid in a school, in that he is accurate. There has not been a case of a black kid doing a "Columbine".

as to black on black crime, it happens as does white on white, asian on asian, black on white, etc, etc.

If you want less kids shooting kids, tighter gun control would help. I thought it was crazy when a few months back I saw a kid in the US showing off his gun collection. He had over 10 firearms. What on earth does he need them for?

.. Sorry, she did get prosecuted but the verdict was not guilty.

Ferris Bueller: Assisted suicide has been basically decrimilised in the UK. A recent case in court where a mother helped her daughter die with dignity ended in no prosecution. The likes of Terry Pratchett have helped to state the obvious...

.... We put animals down if they are in terrible pain or terminally ill, but humans till now have had to die horribly in the UK or go abroad to countries where sense prevails and folks are allowed to choose to die peacefully.

It's not a case of the person assisting making the choice, but only helping the person who wants to end their suffering to do it.

Artful Dodger: True... dead is dead, but you were going on about what someone was saying about shootings at schools. Not terrorists killing kids, or gang killings but what the guy was talking about ie "Columbine" style mass shootings.

The article does not state for whatever reason who is doing the shooting as in a statistical breakdown. Of the shootings who did them? Is it all by kids or young adults, how many were by adults? How many were at schools?

I ask this detail being given as it gives a more accurate understanding of the figures and what they mean in relation to your post.

It's like a recent debate here over assisted suicide. One guy who was against it said a number might try and use it to get a quick inheritance. But that by nature is not assisted suicide, but murder. A different matter and one that should not effect the rulings on letting people end their lives with dignity.

Artful Dodger: Where is the breakdown of 'who dunnit' to back up your statement?

Yes, 500 kids shot, 36 fatally according to the article you quote. But where does it say they were done at school? All it says that they were kids and indicates that this is street violence rather than going into school and going crazy with guns like a "Columbine" type horror.

So, at this moment in time regarding mass killings in schools in America, white kids lead the league.

Best if you report accurately. ;)

GTCharlie: it will if the funding to the terrorists can be cut.

Czuch: The only distraction I can see Saddam causing is if Iran invaded, the rest.. Well, embarrassment over him being an ex lackey of the USA and Tony Blair hating him.

How many people died since he was basically fenced in v his regime being taken down, and how much in resources have been diverted from eradicating Al-Qaeda? As to two different fights... he wasn't one, he was an easy victory and pointless one... and from history we have many examples of the problems of fighting on two different fronts.

As to them being let go... I at the moment do not understand what happened. They were in nick, and somehow they were released. I don't see the US authorities being unaware of this.

I guess more info will come out over the next week, etc.

Czuch: If that is so true... why the waste of money and resources on Iraq that could have gone on fighting and destroying the terrorist network worldwide??

The billions spent on a war that was not necessary and now the real war on terrorism is suffering. Saddam was not a terrorist or had any links to Al-Qaeda.

rod03801: I heard on the news and read via several on-line newspapers that the Yemen authorities have been after help in dealing with possible terrorist cells, but such calls for help have been ignored. Yemen's Foreign Minister Abu Bakr al-Qirbi has said that the country is not getting sufficient help from the West to tackle al-Qaeda. They have their own troubles dealing with warring factions and need support from the USA, UK and EU.

That of those who are possibly active in Yemen, two were from the bay, yet an estimated 200-300 terrorists are active in the country. No mention they were leaders, just active members of the group.

Artful Dodger: The guy from huffington got it wrong and changed his blog.. Is your point from that still valid?

And if it is the CIA.. then that speaks of a systematic government within government that has done it's best to make USA citizens frightened and care more about power then your country.... get rid of the CIA then.

I'm sure lots of people going by the CIA's past won't miss them... like the Russians do not miss the KGB!!

Artful Dodger: Has to happen once a year!!

Mousetrap: It is getting stupid, a teacher told not to say "I'll pray for your child" as she'll lose her job... people told not to wear a cross or they will lose their job...

A pox on Political Correctness.

Czuch: ... Obama!! I thought he was democrat... has some strange conspiracy theory gone totally ga ga??

Snoopy: I think the laughter would ripple into a countrywide belly laugh!!

Snoopy: OAP's on the bus the other day singing Christmas songs, Christmas lights, trees, inflatable Santa's outside houses.

I recon those who moan about using Happy Xmas and all just don't like Christmas.. That is their problem.

Snoopy: I find the idea that we are taught that we are that easily offended is crass, and someone's way of keeping a job that is not needed.

A pox on political correctness!!

Tuesday: Aye.. something like that.. also as a look back, the modern parties in the USA are young as is that the American civil war was not that long ago.

One has to ask if the laws of rebound apply to such events!

Bwild: By eck, ow does that republicans were democrats and democrats were republicans fit into thy story?

My brain hurts!!!!!!

Snoopy: Actually I have mentioned the corruption, several times.

Merry Christmas.

Artful Dodger: Exactly.

I've caught up with me games and I'm off for now.. Got some cooking to do to save time tomorrow..... The gravy!!

Merry Christmas

Artful Dodger: I think you all in the USA can agree your current litigation system needs a re vamp.. less costs for all if pay outs are reasonable.. And yet everyone wants more and it seems as the lawyers get a % they are not stopping such greed.

It's called having corruption everywhere in some form. Sometimes little changes everywhere can lead to a big change overall.

Is he now through editorial selection dictate that everything else in America is fine and dandy?

Snoopy: I'm not the only one that goes on on this board.... Guess it's the politician in all of us.

Snoopy: ... Old saying you can't learn anything in heaven... And I don't see us humans having all reached enlightenment yet

Artful Dodger: And same could be said about the lawyers that keep your legal system paying out millions, the healthcare companies saying no to treatment using disgusting little clauses just to make a buck more... I hear they bribed Hillary in some form when she tried to get reforms. And at the same time 40 million Americans don't contribute.

Your taxes are already paying for healthcare, your system in some form does need a change.

Snoopy: I've never said bad things don't happen here.. but I choose to focus on the good.

Artful Dodger: I heard that there are several layers to both parties, moderates and extremists, etc. Have your parties.. but there is always common ground and that is a good start

Bwild: It would help if a crackdown on illegal guns and how they get them was done. There is no need to outlaw guns, it was a bad idea when it happened here. We had checks on those wanting a gun license and it was a good system.

Maybe an amnesty period for the handing in of illegal weapons. They do work.

Artful Dodger: Then.. party must be forgotten and a united American people march on DC.

That's what happened here over the Iraq war. Make a big stink.. make the politicians worry about their jobs. Many here didn't bother standing for re-election after the expenses business here.

Snoopy: Yes we still have no go areas, teenage pregnancy, corruption, stupid high rise flats estates that some bright architect though would solve housing but gave no room to breath.

We have immigration problems, stupid bureaucracy, MP's that need to be put in the stocks for a while.. Too much political correctness, etc, etc..

But I can't help but love my country..... It's a herd thing

Artful Dodger: So why don't the population of the USA get and forget party lines and push for changes.

It's happened recently over here regarding expenses and that some high ranking council CEO's are getting paid more then the Prime Minister.

... Google and check out the "Taxpayers Alliance"

Czuch: Sometimes you get bills, etc that the party line is do not vote for it. It's happened many times in Parliament over here even though (like in the USA now) opposition party members have contributed and helped make the bill before reaching the house.

Artful Dodger: No offence but that's why I like living in a country where guns are a relative rarity. Police and civilians shouldn't have to worry so heavily that a gun is going to get pulled at any incident. We saw enough of that over here during the Northern Ireland war. A good mate of mine from the past has the image of his soldier pal dying from a shot to his head while on tour there.

Snoopy: lol saw a couple of council workers who were miffed about the grit supply. The county council have been neglecting on their duties so I hear...

.. They seem to have forgotten that during winter we might get snow and ice.

Snoopy: Would help if they had some grit in them. The two in the nearby car park are both empty and look like they have not had anything in them for some time.

And no, I didn't know you could.. I don't know everything!! I was pretty sure you could, but with the way the councils are trying to raise money by taking people to court over silly things (slightly over full bins, etc) best to check.

Artful Dodger: Fixed it.. toooo late last night, the zzzzzzzzzz's were kicking in

As to the system of suing in the USA. It would be fine if limits (caps) were set. One of my relatives was hurt by flying glass through stupid driving re a bus hitting a shelter. She got her expenses paid for and about £1K on top for the pain and inconvenience it caused her (this was about twenty years ago) ... several firms here advertise a service to sue in cases of accidents that were due to negligence by others but the amounts advertised as being gotten are less then £10K. To get millions here it has to be a severe case of negligence, etc by the defendant.

The case that Snoopy quotes of people ignoring warnings over safety of flammable materials would be thrown out of court here as people are expected to have some common sense regarding such materials.

Anything flammable I buy (such as white spirit for cleaning paint brushes), I keep in the shed, away from anything that could react with it. Simple common sense.

Artful Dodger: Then don't use the other browser. Can't please everyone all the time.

Snoopy: I got told today that us joe public can just grit the paths ourselves and that was perfectly legal. We are even allowed to take it from the grit bins scattered around the area. As told by the county council's help desk!!

My reply.. ok, but it would be a good idea if there were more around.


As to my link.. it ain't screwing up my page, must be others settings!!

Feedback from a council regarding peoples concerns on gritting.

falkirk council use gritting machines as requested by residents

Snoopy: welllllll I found this one quickly... just as a note, not a case.

" The lack of grit on the pavements is just asking for trouble. But I've heard of other councils who make a concious decision not to grit pavements as they are more likely be lose a court case brought because of an injury caused by inadequate pavement gritting rather than caused by the 'natural consequences' of walking on ungritted, icy pavements."

Snoopy: Maybe.. but in the new year when the petition system is open, I'll start up one. Our local district council agreed, but their hands were tied as it's a county council matter.

.... as to roads.. that only applies to main roads, as far as I could gather everywhere else could 'swivel'.

And I'm not going through pages and pages and pAgEs of legal cases.

GTCharlie: A billion Zimbabwe dollars is a fair compensation... at the old rates.

Snoopy: It's not a case of suing them, it's a case of getting them to be sensible. I read your councils list, our local council are not living upto that standard, even regarding school walk ways and shopping areas.

And no, I didn't say the police and councils can do no wrong. Last week I made a formal complaint on one matter to our council over a decision and they reversed that decision.

.. and as such if local people confronted their councils over matters of safety they would have to listen. As to the law courts... it wouldn't be a hard case, they have a duty that they are legally bound to live up to.