Snoopy: Not a case of clearing, just gritting them.

And from what I remember of my law classes at college, if someone breaks a leg, etc on the paths then the council is liable and can be sued. I remember this as my tutor sued the council over lack of maintenance regarding a broken paving slab that resulted in her breaking her ankle... she won.

Does anyone know (in the UK) how to start up a petition? This is in regards to the councils lack of concern to the dangerous conditions of the paths. They consider making paths safe for people to walk on a low priority!!

Snoopy: Yes.. but I didn't want to put the link up because of the way some of the civilians expressed their disgust language wise!!

Snoopy: True... but it looked like (from the video) and comments that the detective was in his vehicle and got stuck in the snow whilst passing a snowball fight where everyone was just having fun with fresh snow.

I saw an incident last year where a soldier faced off some kids throwing snowballs at cars. The soldier just asked them to own up and stop it. When they didn't own up, he just called them cowards.

To see a policeman pull out a gun over a snowball fight is why we need to remember police are human and can err.

Yet in a UK similar incident.. the police join in the fun and throw snowballs back at the hoodies... It's just snow.

I see the climate conference has not control law.. well, there is always the idea of using SO2 as a cooling agent.

Snoopy: Not me carrying it on.

Snoopy: And? I was replying originally to Czuch about any new news.. Not my problem that others on this board are dragging the subject on. We could all just wait till the IPCC inquiry is finished if you'd like and all stop having an opinion.

Artful Dodger: Makes a change!!

But as such going on about being arrested whilst armed is a different matter to a man with hands in his pocket being shoved/assaulted from behind.

that also is the opinion seemingly of the IPCC and the family lawyer.

Snoopy:

......"The second examination was carried out by Dr Nat Carey, one of Britain's most eminent forensic pathologists, on behalf of the IPCC.

Mr Tomlinson's family solicitor, Jules Carey, said: "The video footage of the unprovoked and vicious assault on Ian by the police officer would easily justify charges of assault being brought against the officer. The findings of Dr. Nat Carey significantly increase the likelihood that the officer will now face the more serious charge of manslaughter".

"The family have been aware of the findings of the second pathology report for a week and have had to endure the holding back of this information despite continuing reports in the press that Ian died of a heart attack.

"The IPCC opposed the disclosure of Dr Carey's findings until they satisfied themselves that it would not prejudice their investigation of the officer. It is of some comfort to the family that the record is now being put straight, but they hope that the IPCC investigation will be expedited and thorough, and that there will be a prompt referral to the CPS for charge."

Paul King, Mr Tomlinson's stepson, said: "First we were told that there had been no contact with the police, then we were told that he died of a heart attack; now we know that he was violently assaulted by a police officer and died from internal bleeding. As time goes on we hope that the full truth about how Ian died will be made known". "

Is that better...

Snoopy: No.. I'm using examples of people having opinions. You think the Iraq/Afghan wars are wrong... isn't that an opinion as the inquiries ain't over yet.

By your words.. that's wrong!!

Artful Dodger: Yawn Be better if you didn't C&P

Snoopy: ... So? that he's not been charged means nothing.

Like with the Iraq inquiry.. not over, but many including relatives of the soldiers have an opinion. Are you saying they are wrong to have an opinion? Wrong to think it was a bad war?

When the Nimrod's started blowing up.. relatives had an idea something was wrong, and since then the evidence has proven they were right to suspect a MOD mess up.

Snoopy: Maybe I read the paper reports that say the policeman involved has been questioned under suspicion of manslaughter.

My bad, I read the news!!

Btw.. it wasn't a heart attack...

It was according to the second examination...."abdominal haemorrhage"

Snoopy: People do though.. It's part of human nature.

Snoopy: The police still do not have the right to attack people from behind. Most would consider that cowardly, or at least taking out one's tension on another party beside those winding you up.

I spoke to an police inspector at the time of that event and he said it was wrong.

Czuch: First time you've seen it!!

Manslaughter.. not murder.

Artful Dodger: I'm not being dishonest... I'm asking a question/making a statement based on your posts.

Get over it!!

Artful Dodger: So in your area, the police can hit or assault anyone?

Glad I live in the UK then.

Artful Dodger: Art... look up Hungerford and Dunblane.. you are looking like you don't know what you are talking about TOTALLY!!!

Artful Dodger:

Witnesses said that, prior to the moment captured on video, he had already been hit with batons and thrown to the floor by police who blocked his route home.

One witness, Anna Branthwaite, a photographer, described how, in the minutes before the video was shot, she saw Tomlinson walking towards Cornhill Street.

"A riot police officer had already grabbed him and was pushing him," she said.

"It wasn't just pushing him – he'd rushed him. He went to the floor and he did actually roll. That was quite noticeable.

"It was the force of the impact. He bounced on the floor. It was a very forceful knocking down from behind. The officer hit him twice with a baton when he was lying on the floor.

"So it wasn't just that the officer had pushed him – it became an assault.

"And then the officer picked him up from the back, continued to walk or charge with him, and threw him.

"He was running and stumbling. He didn't turn and confront the officer or anything like that."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/07/video-g20-police-assault

............ quite frankly I don't think you or Czuch have researched the incident properly, and before hand you did say the police were wrong.. why the change of heart?

Artful Dodger: You didn't see him being hit.... not very observant are you!!

Artful Dodger: No we cannot own guns in the UK. Only those who use them as a tool of the trade such as farmers and game keepers... you did know that didn't you?

... and it's a bit hard to hide a shotgun or rifle in your trouser pocket.

Artful Dodger: No he doesn't, but at the same time the justification for police violence has to be justified.

I hear no justification from you, just excuses. Is it in the USA that the police can get away with anything... I know the answer is no to that.

Artful Dodger: This is the UK.. not the USA, as a rule.. arms are a rarity.

Artful Dodger: If he is being violent.. ok. But otherwise.. as you say. Rubbish.

Czuch: ..... Doesn't excuse hitting and knocking the man down from behind. Even if they were arresting him.

.. if they were KGB or SS or part of some other dictator based militia, then fine. But we don't... do you? Your police still have rules don't they....Do you remember Rodney King?

Snoopy: Now no singing "I've got a combine harvester" now!!

Snoopy: !!!!! I'm not twisting, I'm using metaphorical language (with humour) to state that I don't understand. I could go back through April but that was April.

If you want to twist that (serious) go on.. but it'd be much easier if you just either said "oh well.. it was April" .. or ... list what you are going on about back then rather than expect me to play 20 questions.

... saves alot of time!!

Snoopy: That was 8 months ago.. I'm not a politician!!

Czuch: Czuch... the guy had his hands in his pockets and was hit and pushed from behind. Plenty of police around to just arrest him without that kind of attack.

As such, the whole of the handling of the G20 protests by the SPG is under review.

Snoopy: Why go back to April?

Artful Dodger: Really?

Snoopy: Is every time I come up with a point now twisting to you?

Czuch: Not to misuse violence. Not to hit someone then push them to the floor if the person is not causing or in the way of a greater harm.

And it's manslaughter they policeman is possibly facing, not murder, just as I said in the posts I posted when the story first hit the news.

Snoopy: And here we are several years down the line on Iraq and Afghanistan.. yet most people have an opinion about that.. even though the inquiry has just started officially.

And the IPCC have to do a full inestigation.. you want any crimes to go unpunished because procedure wasn't followed?
People have opinions... it's not a crime.

Snoopy: I did not know disagreeing with someone was putting someone down. And the video did show a man with his hands in his pockets being hit and pushed from behind.... since when has that been legal?

Artful Dodger: And if they correct? Many police detectives have strong hunches on 'who dunnit' on a crime... They just have to gather enough evidence to get it to court.

And instincts can be very useful.. I mean it use to earn me a free pint and a few quid just knowing which fruit machine was in the mood to pay out in a pub.

Czuch: Not just my opinion, many others in the UK have the same opinion..

... based on what has been seen in video recordings of the event, and based on other info released of the event..

"you didnt say that you would like to see an investigation into the incident, "

Why should I need to? It's the law over here that it will be investigated and I stated as such.

"If you Brits were so into investigations, you would have called for an investigation,"

There is one. Like there is regarding MJ and his doctor.. has that finished yet?

Übergeek 바둑이: Politicians like to be squeaky clean (or claim to be) while the other side is dirty so and so's .... they are human. One French minister once commentated that in France they would be sacked for not having a mistress at the time of a big scandal in the UK.

or ... "I smoked weed but didn't inhale" .... but the person is alcohol dependent...

.. "It was within the rules" ... but not moral though...


.... I'd rather have a genuine politician then a squeaky clean one any day of the week.

Artful Dodger: Like Saddam and his WMD's.... a year before the invasion it was already decided there was to be a war.

In retrospect.. it sounds like the right wing conservative element in the USA had lost the plot. As some of those in the UK inquiry have said.. It'd been easy and much better to just let Saddam die of old age and just contain him.

If the Conservative element in the USA want to have the next president.. better they learn to tell the truth

Czuch: Gut feeling... instinct. Knowing that something ain't right, or that the police were not telling the truth.

You've heard of such feelings over events haven't you?

It's like when Miss Rice was trying to make out Saddam was the Big Bad Wolf, when your generals at the UN were trying to say he had WMD's.. you could see he was not comfortable with what he was saying...... Or do you just believe anything the anyone says in authority without questioning??

I know you don't.. or you'd be supporting your current President and what he's trying to achieve.

... A year at least before GWII, it was known that there would be military action against Iraq regardless of the UN, yet no proper plan was made by either the USA or UK agencies responsible for redevelopment programs!!

It's not as if reconstruction hasn't been done before hand!!

Snoopy: Well the police still do like to protect their own and be rather.... relative with the actions that took place.

Czuch: *sigh* Us in the UK tend to like to do things properly when it comes to investigations of death, especially by police. The IPCC had several complaints of the police behaviour from that protest march, and are investigating all of them.

Look this one of the guy having his hands in his pockets is like the one of the 3 IRA guys who were shot.... The armed units mistook having hands above the head as a signal to "please shoot me".

If you want a faster investigation, I suggest you start a fund for the IPCC to allocate more resources.

Otherwise.. wait for the FULL investigation to come out in the coroners court, oh impatient one!!

Czuch: Still waiting on that one. But, a bloke who was killed by armed police who thought he was another person (a terrorist) has come to conclusion. The police have apologised for the mistake and the family have received compensation.

The death occurred 4 years ago... full investigations over here take time. It's not CSI all sorted in one hour jobs in real life dude!!

Heard an interesting fact the other day....

Since 1945 all produced steel is radioactive.. small level contamination from the nuclear bombs exploded, as steel production involves large amounts of air.

Any steel used in detecting radiation levels has to be gained from steel made before 1945, as such scuppered ships and U-boats from WWII which do not get categorised as war graves.

Bwild: Seen something like the old Chinese version in a old Jackie Chan film. Something like it has become popular these days as one of those street football skills.

Funny that the Chinese were making paper from 8000BC and didn't tell the rest of the world how!!

Artful Dodger: Really.... mmmmmm

95% of the raw data is available for scrutiny from a global climate website. That the sun can effect our weather is nothing new.. it's not a 'new' idea, I learnt about it 20 odd years ago at school. I've read about the 'leaked' data... and that it was taken out of context..

http://www.uea.ac.uk/mac/comm/media/press/2009/nov/homepagenews/CRUupdate
It's the university website.

That we have an impact on the world.. nothing new. I don't know if you know about the times before clean coal was only allowed to be burnt in London. Heavy fogs mixed with the fumes of coal fires could kill. We polluted the Thames river so much that swimming in it could be deadly.

So.. that 5% read the university website.

Bwild: Mmmmm I better not go on about how polo balls use to be *cough* gathered!!