Übergeek 바둑이: What gets me about capitalism (at the moment) is something nicknamed "dead peasants insurance". A policy of insurance used to protect a company from the loss of 'executives' now used by companies to make a profit on the death of a worker. My main gripe is any family, etc see nothing of this insurance money and yet the family can be left penniless.

Ferris Bueller: Having an opinion is everyone's right. But the law is is that to incite hatred or violence is illegal. The BNP can do rallies as much as the Green party. Animal rights folks can protest about experimentation. But as soon as it gets nasty.. People have the right to carry out their lawful business.

That the KKK, etc can march without permits (or any group that needs to) is crazy. If trouble starts at least there will be police to protect both sides from hotheads. They can shout at each other.. some name calling is expected and depending overlooked. But out and right crap. It ain't right.

Artful Dodger: That poll is 7 years old!!

Things have changed to what is happening in the UK since then

The main problem is the stirring of extemists on both sides of the Muslim - Patriotic British groups.

But it's not everywhere!!

Artful Dodger: Sorry, but last week wasn't the GOP at it's lowest in the polls for ten years?

Ferris Bueller: No, the UK is not perfect, there are idiots in all races that think they are superior to other colours or religions.

post code turfs, and groups being groups trying to act 'gangster rapper'

And yes.. we had the slave trade. But that was then, a stage thankfully passed. We got some people of all races creating strife.. As in one interview a politician decreed he would not be happy if he had a child that married to a Muslim through love.. and their would be some on the Muslim side who'd feel the same, etc.

... But a minority as a rule. The use though of race as a means to stir anger and violence is forbidden. As some have found in court. The 'PC' crowd can go to far.. we ain't out the water yet.

And what's more about *cough* Mr 'nice stand up guy' Nick Griffin.. when present and former army chiefs criticised him for using pictures of the armed forces on the BNP website, he then whined that they were Nazi's so and so's.

He's as patriotic as a wet paper bag!!.

Snoopy: Aye, she was a great champion for the cause. and yes.. cost should never have come into it. We live near a main army base and many Gurkha families live in the surrounding areas, I see Gurkha's often guarding the base entrances as well as working in civilian positions in the area.

Ferris Bueller: I'll give you an example. During WWII as you know many GI's came over to the UK. A training film had to be made to explain to those who came over to our country (staring Rocky's trainer from the original Rocky films) that there was no segregation in the UK. I think the UK attitude towards skin colour was different due to our Empire days, where many UK citizens lived, worked or fought in countries of the British Empire. And after WWII the Empire became the Commonwealth. Gurkha's still join the British army and fight side by side with British born soldiers, and more recently won the right to remain in the UK after retirement thanks to a campaign by UK citizens which forced the government to give in despite the cost... They earned the right.

Before WWII we had the British Union of Fascists led by Oswald Mosley, but at it's peak it had only had 50,000 members and soon lost ground. The Daily Mail supported them at one stage, yet after an anti-fascist protester lost an eye during a confrontation that support was dropped. In 1936 an act was passed banning political uniforms and required police permission for political marches.

Extreme groups that incite violence or hate are illegal by law. The likes of the KKK would never have been allowed or supported in the UK. We just find such groups utterly distasteful. Yes we have small groups of racists on both sides of the colour coin, but in public they know to keep their mouths shut (generally except the stupid ones) or face fines or prison. Our old divides use to based on class (upper, middle and lower) not race.

As a country.. we've never had the room to have separate places to non-white people, so our communities have always (except for a few areas) been mixed. People just get on in general except for a few hot heads.

The likes of Nick Griffin and his whining about lack of Britishness is just pure rubbish. Every year the proms (amongst other UK folk stuff) celebrate Britain and people around the country watch, join in and sing along with it. English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish flags you see being flown freely. He's just a little idiot blaming other ethnicities for his insecurity and lack of self worth.

The BNP has it's roots in the National front. It has a policy of excluding people from joining it's party who are not white. And recently has been taken to court over this policy or face legal action by the courts. A number of active or past active BNP members have been prosecuted over conspiracy or actual bombings of non white people.

99%+ of the UK population by UK standards consider Nick Griffin and the BNP to be a racist organisation.

Not by American standards, but by UK standards.

Nick Griffin slanders our army chiefs and anyone else that dares to criticise him or his party because he is a weak minded individual who cannot take criticism.

Artful Dodger: You've seen 'real' racism. So have many others and do so today. Just because it ain't burning crosses and segregation don't mean it ain't 'real'. We've witnessed racism here, religionism.. we lived through via the IRA v Loyalists.

Cheap use of 'real' is a politician trick. It's old... and doesn't hack it.

Snoopy: I'm not twisting, I'm just exercising a bit of PERSPECTIVE. An opinion based on the wages some earn. Bankers getting big money bonuses, the energy companies making record profits, etc.

Snoopy: Because they are overpaid athletes. duh!!

One was recently asking for over £140K a WEEK.

Also.. if you don't want your money going to those who live a life of luxury.. Better find some remote island and not consume anything that you don't make. It's part of life every time you shop. Or do you think the Boots bosses earn peanuts??

Artful Dodger: Griffin is a racist, hardly a stand up guy.. and quite frankly as some linked to the BNP have committed bombing on civilians or conspiracy to bomb. Well as I said... not all terrorists are Muslim.

Snoopy: Right.. so while footballers are ripping off people and clubs thanks to 'Sky sports', Murdoch wants to charge for access to Murdoch group websites.. like news.

Please. Jonathan Ross's wages are small compared to some celeb's. And quite frankly with his pulling power why not pay him a big wage. And while others are creaming the UK public... Did you hear about the Halifax via watchdog and their new fee scheme, which in cases can equal to a 100,000+% interest rate per year.

Do you think the ITV big stars just get paid peanuts?

Snoopy: Yes... people can watch TV using TV cards and the likes of BBC iplayer. And I'd rather have the BBC advert free. I hated it when ITV were showing F1 and every 10 minutes or so there were adverts.

The BBC does raise money through sales of it's programs and of merchandise (eg Dr who stuff) and produces programs that media guru's complain that we do not have enough of.

Also the BBC produces things like the World Service, something people around the world have relied on for info for many years. And as such.. the BBC was quite a significant part in the liberation of Europe from the Nazi's via coded messages.

It may not be perfect, but it is a British institution free of the likes of Murdoch and other manipulators of the media and the need to make programs just to raise the price of adverts.

Artful Dodger: Then you'd need a near neutral show. According to you that is not possible in the USA. I see Fox news (and friends) complaining about Obama right now about freedom of speech, but where were their complaints when Bush was having protesters escorted to zones where the TV audience would not see them during him going 'walkabout' and trying to have many arrested on bogus charges.

Some may not like the BBC and it's license fee, but it's a neutral company by it's charter. The fee pays for countless free local radio stations as well as TV without advertising. Nothing Murdoch owns can be said to be the same.

As to Griffin.. the only point he had was that the immigration system as such is not doing it's job. Not enough money has been put into the system to deal with the problems that have arisen. I was dismayed that the Labour panellist tried to act all innocent on this. I'd rather have an honest politician say mistakes were made then one say all is fine.

And what problems in London are you talking about re the Islamic community.. My watch of the news has not been as great recently. But I've heard of no big riots.

Bwild: PR companies. I hear one advert telling us Kellog invented Corn Flakes, when it was an accident!! Luckily he learned how to add vits otherwise the grits wouldn't be good for ya!!

Snoopy: That he kept changing his story when challenged by members on the audience... As one panel member said "stop with the 'bs'".

Mousetrap: He might get a few extra 'right fringe votes' but he ain't no John Hurt in "V for Vendetta" .

Just a silly remnant from when people blamed another race for not feeling ggod about themselves!!

Snoopy: Aye.. a total idiot, and shown so. The irony is now after being shown to be an idiot he's now practising "look at me" to cover his own lack of intelligence.

Last night Nick Griffin was on Question Time...

The BNP leader had an inquisition .

rod03801: I'm not sure, I've heard of at least 3 testing systems. Hair, urine and one other.. and there is probably more. By the sound of things, I think they can be more accurate then a week.

Czuch: It's a crime here to be under the influence of any substance while driving. Drink/drugs.. anything that impairs your ability including prescription drugs and any illness that could cause an accident.

NO actual deaths from just smoking Marijuana have ever been recorded as far as I can tell.

As to growing.. as far as I can tell, the states that allow it do so that the grower is under license. Better that then imported via drug cartels. Personally I feel it rather wrong that a drug baron gets money from medical 'pot' in the same regards I do not agree with the massive trade in prescription drugs on the internet (eg Viagra) that has sprouted.

As such there is no excuse here to have smoked and then drive. The advertising about the dangers have been going on for years in the UK.

Czuch: With regards to Marijuana.. as far as I am aware.. there has never been a fatality related directly to it's use.

When compared to some drugs that are prescribed.. that makes it "soft". One prescribed drug is now part of a $500 million plus lawsuit over people getting diabetes from it. That same drug (and all in it's class) has side effects that can cause renal failure and as at this time.. there are no tests to see if you have that side effect or not... yet it is prescribed.

As for addiction, yes.. it can be, but then again that applies to many prescription drugs that are prescribed to which a procedure of coming off slowly has to used. Many of the side effects noted on Marijuana can be seen on prescription drugs or worse.

They did a study on harmfulness of various drugs in relation to health recently (the study included tobacco and drink) and on those grounds Marijuana is "soft". Drink and tobacco kill and yet are legal. The main concern was over the age of smoking pot. As with underage smoking and drinking it can cause problems in development of a person, yet because it is underground there is no control over underage use as there is with drink and tobacco.

Czuch: ... why import it, if it is to be used for medical purposes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_cannabis#Partial_list_of_clinical_applications

GTCharlie: Stalin was a very insecure man with tooo much power. Always a danger. He killed the USSR more efficiently then any internal or external enemy. If the Germans had left Stalin alone I recon he would have brought down the USSR quicker on his own.

As for Hitler going for the Russians.. A war on two fronts is never a good thing.

***I mean, I'm growing a 50/50 THC to CBD cloned plant. My standards are very high as I work for the government.***

This was a quote from a scientist who works for the government... not my words!!

Not my fault I watch DOCUMENTARIES!!!

GTCharlie: He defeated the French full stop. The Vichy regime was an allowed government by the Nazis in certain parts of France. The regime wilfully collaborated with the Nazis throughout their period of government.

As for appeasement... Our army had lost it's edge, the great depression took it's toll on military research. While the Germans during the 30's steamed ahead. They borrowed (via books and all) ideas that were developed by other nations who had used the books as 'door stops'.. and developed them. We'd seen the Spanish civil war and how well the Nazi war machine worked.. and our government sought time to catch up.

Chamberlain made a deal with Hitler, but set the invasion of Poland as a step to far (mutual defence policies, etc) .... The Maginot line was a throw back from WWI warfare.

Over here in the UK we get taught about the period between 1918 and 1939. That's wear the appeasement attempts took place.

Czuch: If you are trying to say "why not other prescription drugs".. Because they cannot make a drug like it. Most man made drugs of a heavy duty nature have serious side effects, some can even kill ya in order to try and improve your health. So many different people with different illnesses find medical marijuana 'clean' compared to man made drugs, and also helps combat side effects of man made drugs.

As one old lady over here pointed out.. when she was on man made drugs for her problems, she felt crap all the time through the side effects. A friend of hers suggested to try eating very small amounts of marijuana. She did and found it works better then expensive pharmaceutical stuff without the side effects. The amount she has to use in a making a dish is very small.

Many of our basic medicines are based on natures own brands... Aspirin for example.

Ferris Bueller: The tag is an ankle bracelet tied to a home base. If you leave your home.. it goes off to alert those who monitor your probation/house arrest conditions.

as such our homeless are not jailed unless they break the law. Some people just find the jail world easier to live in then the outside world... that is disturbing.

Ferris Bueller: The tag seems to be an effective system over here. Not perfect but it is better then locking someone up for non-violent crimes. I don't believe for major non-violent (such as a big fraud) that it should be applied but that's what minimals are for, and house arrest.. though not a luxury house.. that's insult to injury.

But at the same time.. some penance beyond locking up needs to be applied in such cases, community service tends to be very popular over here. plus an attempt to prevent by changing attitudes of small time crooks, though although not always successful.. I have seen positive results.

The alternative is that someone gets use to going to jail. It's not a prison.. just another home and 3 meals a day.

Anyway.. did you here about the court ruling over here regarding some guy who got tortured?? The Government is having to appeal against 7 paragraphs of info regarding said act being made public. The judge says it's not a security risk in that your country's intelligence service will stop working with ours.

The BNP. Who only allows indigenous caucasian people to join has to put this policy to a members vote or face prosecution under racial discrimination laws.

.... An the UN has backed a report condemning BOTH Israel and Hama's. Although we know the USA (seeing as a certain power advises the 'other' government) .. They may be held to account in the international war crimes court.
... perhaps in the long run if they both recognise as well as protecting their people they have been bad boys. there might get to be a level playing field from which this decades old mess can be sorted.

Übergeek 바둑이: Many here want the lower risk to health illegal drugs virtually decriminalised. Drink and cigs cost far more in terms of health risk and drains on resources. Putting someone in prison for minor things not only is an immediate waste of money and resources, but serves no good.

The big dealers.. bang em up. That or as would be more sensible with the likes of Marijuana.. make it a registered tax payable business. The Gov here already has 'farms' for 'research', and as pointed out by the boffins there.. it has many possible uses. Pain via THC, sanity via CBD (excuse if I've got my initials wrong on the second) .. Properly regulated, strains could be grown like those sold legally in California for specific problems.

.... The only problem is the pill makers... I don't think they like the idea of natural drugs replacing their multi-billion pound gravy train.

And if it was more regulated (eg police are very afraid of the consequences of a rogue batch of heroin coming in that is far better then users are use to.. people die) and grown under licence.... it cuts drug running, cuts out (in the case of bad hashish) people smoking so much junk that the big boys have mixed in to make a profit...

...and the dear old chancellor gets a nice bit of money. Plus.. as such the police then can target their time on stopping the hoodies and others who ruin actual quality of life rather than a shareholders bank account.

.. another thing.. community service, why lock up someone for a non-violent crime when they can be working off their debt by helping the community. I heard the good thing about prisons was that they gave criminals a chance to learn how to be better criminals..

... ... .. Oh sorry.. I got that wrong. I thought it was a good thing as the prison service keep making that mistake. One European country has it that non-violent offenders work during the week, go home to their families, pay from their wages compensation and goto jail at the weekend... with the tag system.. why not!!

Übergeek 바둑이: Our serious crime squad have as such admitted they cannot eradicate drugs off the street. Their attitude now is that in some cases, if a 'drug dealer' is known by them and causing no other problems (depending on the drugs and level of course) not to bust them. If.. it is impacting on neighbours etc, through related crime.. then they take the attitude of either telling them to clean up their act and the impact of what they are doing or get busted.

It's a matter of resources. Spending 10's of thousands of pounds to bust a person who's a low level dealer... or get the serious nasty distributors and those who's abuse impacts others.

Because quite seriously, as much as it would be nice to have a magic wand and be able to end the problem... it ain't that easy. The resources needed to end abuse are as such to costly and would kill any medical system, and as such... (as Jeremy Kyle would say) they can't do anything until the person abusing themselves wants to stop and face what's in their mind causing the addiction.

The Jeremy Kyle show had one person who hadn't gotten to the point that they'd complete the rehab course they were on.. at £5k+ a time, that is a lot of cash and resources to end drug/alcohol abuse throughout the system.

As a matter of point.. I was cruising the news/docu channels last night and came had a look at fox.. O'Reilly was moaning at a woman for her views on Afghanistan and missed her point. Although as needed we are stopping terrorist camps and attacks/training in the area, Taliban control (even though rocky) ... one task.. women being treated as equals, it's not a thing that eradicating the Taliban will solve. The men (as documented on Panorama) are still very Victorian in their attitudes. Even the CEO does not express 'equal rights'. This attitude is not going to disappear over night, and may take a generation or two to sufficiently say "job done".

Men still treat women as an object pretty much and the justice level for women is practically non-existent.

You can't change a whole country over night.

Übergeek 바둑이: I doubt it, all it's done imho is made another chain in the process to obtain drugs. They buy whatever (on the card so the gov don't see anything) and then have to barter those goods for their addiction. If someone is that desperate they will find a way.. and if someone is that desperate.. then someone will take advantage of that!!

Then the related problems of shoplifting, theft.. Quite honestly I think it's just passing on the problem to the people and businesses just to say... "we are doing something"

gogul: Strange though that certain illegal substances are used to keep USA pilots awake and alert on missions.

Maybe less missions rather than pump the pilots up with amphetamines to keep them alert beyond endurance, less friendly fire problems to be certain.

"....Labour backbencher Alan Simpson is pledging to go to court rather than return £500 which he has been accused of over-claiming in cleaning bills......"

I guess this guy ain't going to get re-elected.

Snoopy: I don't think so, I think 'kissing baby' politics is just too much of the job. I heard a story about the USSR, the boffins were asked to come up with an efficient economic system.... they did. Yet those in power would have lost power.

Übergeek 바둑이 says money can bring out the worst in people.. true, but power can also.

plus the small matter of "we have a new idea"... "it's election time, who do we want to fund us?" ... zzzzzzzzzzzzz

As to your layabouts.. ok .. but that is them, not everyone on benefits is a layabout and it would be wrong to paint all with the same brush. Same as I hear some say "All terrorists are Muslims", "Everyone in the Anglican faith believes exactly the same"....

.. it just ain't true.

Snoopy: *sigh* it's a matter of economics, something I studied at school.... the economic system her government used is in economics known as a 'boom and bust' system. It makes things look good and great for a while until the bubble bursts. Granted Labour had made some rubbish decisions, but her government did not fix the problems, just used a fresh coat of paint to cover up the cracks and holes.

Basically the same as has happened now with the current recession worldwide.

And realistically the unions had a lot to do with Labour's mess, as I said she sorted that out thankfully re the coal strikes. But as such uncontrolled lending (as did happen in her time) went BANG.

Snoopy: I don't know where you see this happening very rarely, and 2) how do you know they didn't buy this stuff before losing a job? 3) how do you know if they are single?

Do you stand outside the job centre asking them to do a survey?

I'll give one example of one guy I use to know... his cars never cost him more then £50 and were paid for by selling the old ones for scrap. But he wasn't single, he'd lost his business thanks to Maggie's boom and bust economic policy.. married and had 3 children. He had good clothes for going out, and old clothes for when he was doing bits around the home. despite being a high paid executive, last I saw he was working for Mcdonalds after not being able to find work at the time Maggie's economic policy went BUST.

But that is an old example.. if you want to find out more I suggest you do that survey.

And yes.. there are some who abuse the system.. but it's wrong to paint those who do not with the same brush.

Snoopy: 1) these days they are hard regarding getting work. 2) people have to prove they are looking for work or their money is cut.

3) how can you cut people money for going on a course to help them find work?

... and FOUR)... the money that someone gets on the "dole" is low... you even mentioned that point earlier "....where the take home pay is coppers more than what benifits pay out.."

so please explain how it's "...the life of Riley.." ... Years ago when a firm I worked for went bust the money on the dole was so rubbish that I got temp jobs till I could find the job I wanted as the money was so crap. I don't see how you can say it's a great life. It's not like they are Paris Hilton or the likes living on millions is it. Back when I did temp jobs, the difference (pre minimum wage) between working 60+ hours a week on less then £2.5 per hour to the dole was over £120.

The rates for a single person(I've just checked) is £64.30 per week.. out of that, a person is expected to buy food, pay bills, clothe themselves, pay any rent top up, etc, etc. The minimum wage for the same person guarantees for a 40 hour week an income after tax of about £150 (rough estimate).... so how is being on the dole easy living? After just paying out for food elec/gas that's say.. £30+ gone, especially in winter. Rent top up can be (depending on the council) £5-10. Normal expenses.. soap, toothpaste, washing clothes... that's another fiver gone .. easily. Clothes wear out, shoes wear out, etc..

So how is it the life of Riley?
How is this easy living?

Snoopy: It is almost impossible for someone to live their entire working lives on the dole unless their is no work. Disabled people.. that's a different matter. But the schemes in place for someone on the dole to assure they are not doing nothing to get a job are such that it is very hard for someone to cheat the system. They have to prove these days that they are looking for work and take part in schemes to improve their chances of getting a job.

Why do you think Working Families Tax credit was introduced!!

Snoopy: You missed my point. THOSE ON LOW INCOMES cannot afford to buy computers, to blame it all on being jobless is inaccurate and a complete misrepresentation of the matter.

If John Smith who is doing the bins in the morning has only a small amount of spare income after paying all his families bills, his wife cannot work (or in another case it's a one parent family)... where are they supposed to find the money?

And quite frankly, in a case of 'vouchers' I'd have it that they have to pay it back weekly/monthly, etc.

Snoopy: My only real likeable thing Maggie did, was to lower the power of the unions to a reasonable level. The inquiry is not about charges, but how the mess happened.

From what I gather.. Tony Blair did not want the USA to go it alone into the Iraq war.. and I gotta hand it to him.. He was a major part of the Northern Ireland troubles stopping and the disarming of the various militia's on either side of that stupid conflict.

Snoopy: I know it sounds stupid, and the possibility of fraud is a concern of those who have interest in kids having computer access (teachers associations and the like) .. but kids these days do need access to the net for their homework. It's not about whether you've got a job or not, as those on low incomes have problems affording a computer.

They calculated on a basis of those that have a PC or not that about 1 billion pounds is the cost to families in this country per year in not having access (about £500 per household) through not being able to surf for better deals on the likes of insurance, etc.

e-skills UK, the employer-led Sector Skills Council for IT and Telecoms.. recon that investment in IT skills and tech, etc.. including school kids being computer literate could generate an extra £35 billion pounds for the UK economy over the next decade.

If not vouchers, then some scheme must be set up so kids have access after school close to home to the net in order to be able to do their homework to the standards expected today. As I assure you... the homework ain't like we use to get!!

Snoopy: I was referring to the expenses scandal, and that does go back to Maggie's gov, as it was then the rules were changed to make it easier for the MP's to con the system.

As to this recession.. yes, there is some blame as to this crises. The guzumping (sp) that went on back then pushed house prices through the roof, the attitude that destroyed much of our community spirit came from her era.
.... As to the spending... As much as it has cost us, the likes of banks who have screwed up ..eg RBS and them going under would have cost more in the long run, I know it was the RBS's bosses fault on buying a bank without a detailed accounts to be able to see if they were worth it, but it was all those reliant on that bank for their retirement funds that would have suffered.

.. As to the two wars... Yes I agree on Iraq, that's why I'm glad there is in progress a full inquiry, but as to Afghanistan... Although the Taliban were as much our creation (as in the west re Russia's occupation) the possible deaths that could occur from that country training terrorist cells, the related killings of their own people and the poppy farms that give rise to so much heroin production ... My main 'rag' is that the troops sent to Iraq could have gone to Afghanistan and that war could have been almost over by now.

Maggie may have sorted out some matters... but she created so many new ones, she only got elected the second time due to the Falklands war victory. In many respects, she's one of the most hated PM's of the 20th century.

Snoopy: The mess goes back to the time of the Iron lady, it was under her Government that the rules of expenses were changed, but at the same time Labour did not speak up. Basically, they are all guilty. as they all felt we would not care or know. It's thank to a whistle blower that they've been caught red handed.

As to whether the Tories will do better.. .. .. I'm hearing to much baby kissing from them at the moment, which does not lead to me having confidence. Though that their leader is saying "pay back or else you won't be allowed to stand for election", which is more than Labour are saying.

Artful Dodger: my baddddd. I didn't think being more accurate was a problem.

It's like the lunchtime news re ITN.. the presenter kept saying "oooo the post office workers are going on strike in 48 hours" ... before and after a union rep clearly stated that IF there is a strike it won't happen till the 22nd of this month.

The Government are selling possibly 3 billion pounds of assets, the local councils are being allowed to sell off 13 billion pounds of assets, which the Government does not get a penny of, it is kept by the local councils for use in their localities.

You asked for an opinion.. you got it. based on more in depth info on what is happening.

If the Gov can sell off items that are not essential and can be privately run, or sell of businesses it's had to rescue.. then good for them. But they will have to find buyers and the price *cough* .. excuse the phrase better be right, or it'll just be another nail in their coffin.

Quite frankly our whole system is going through a right of passage... Something you guys over the pond still won't do... And it seems the private sector in the USA is doing it's best to keep you from changing the system as they like you squabbling over left, right, up, down and rotationally.

Snoopy: With prices at the moment of houses and land still iffy, I don't see them being able to raise what is planned. Plus... who is going to buy it? The companies who've recently been slapped on the wrists for rigging contracts!!

Basically, I think it's to take the attention of the expenses news and that of what is being said about our army's supply problems.

Those I feel are most of the UK people's angers at the mo. That MP's are complaining that they are getting letters to repay money that at heart they knew was wrong to claim as the 'rules' as such were rigged.

... And those who don't repay... I don't see getting re-elected unless the alternatives are worse.

Viva La Revolution!!

Bernice: When are you going to stop flaming on public boards?