Artful Dodger: I'm not repeating myself. *says in an Ben Kenobi voice from the old Star Wars*.....

goooo look Art, the video is there...

Artful Dodger: I can, but it'd be more easy just to look on theyoungturks channel. I'm a bit concerned about posting actual links to them, as.. as most people do.. they swear from time to time.

I'm sure, you finding "idiot" as a 'bad' insult, you can understand my suggestion just to look.

Artful Dodger: Over here.. 1000+ construction companies conspired to defraud public, private and charity building projects. We can play the '''''fraud''''' game all night. Madoff..... 50 billion... gone.

What is the conservative principle?? I find it confusing seeing as so much change has gone on in that in the last 100 years!!

And Beck does play the race game. He plays many games to 'get a reaction'.. including fake crying.

Come on Art, it's pointless saying the guy doesn't do this, they do that when Beck's stuff is all on youtube.

Artful Dodger: As Glen Beck does??

Artful Dodger: I'm not people... I'm me.

I expect now that next time you disagree with Obama and/or Washington you'll drop the use of "idiot"..... Seeing as you feel so strongly about the use of the word. And that I hear Beck treating people like idiots and implying as such.

... Look, you can't have one rule "Republicans can do this, Democrats can do that." .. It's not real, just theatrics.

I mean Art.. you've used the word "idiot" quite a few times to describe various people.. especially your own government.

Artful Dodger: As you say people like theatrics, and Fox's editorials are good at that. And btw... he like all 'faces' has researchers.

And saying someone is an idiot is not an insult, it's using metaphorical description. I heard worse being said of a 'nazi-elitist' by his defence lawyer in crown court.

As you said.. "It would be boring to watch Beck if he didn't get a bit theatrical at times."

Artful Dodger: Aye.... but media likes over the top guys. helps advertising revenue.

Pedro Martínez: I would have to say that Fox news is carrying on the English tradition of having a 'village idiot'. Fox nEwS being a 'village' of sorts of the Murdoch empire..

I guess O'Reilly was losing his .... attention grabbing potential.

Übergeek 바둑이: He sounds ... opinionated from youtube. Basically paid to be 'better than life'..

Media

Snoopy: It's not that she broke the law that gets me.. but that no-one working for her spotted the error.

That I find implausible.

"Some of the UK's leading building companies have been handed big fines by the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) for rigging bids for contracts.

The OFT has fined a total of 103 firms £129.5m for colluding with competitors on building contracts. It said the firms colluded among themselves during the bidding process, leading to customers, such as local authorities, having to pay too much.

The ruling comes at the end of a five-year investigation by the OFT.

.... Adam Aldred, competition partner at law firm Addleshaw Goddard, which represents five of the firms investigated, said the OFT was the first competition authority in Europe to rule against building firms for the practice of cover pricing.

'Price distortions'
In 11 instances investigated by the OFT, the body found that the lowest bidder faced no competition because all other bids were cover bids. It also found six instances where successful bidders had paid an agreed sum of money to the unsuccessful bidder. These payments were between £2,500 and £60,000 and were made using false invoices. "

The best bit..................

"....The UK Construction Group, which represents 29 contractors, called the decision to penalise the firms "unfair".
Deborah Jones, OFT: "It's a breach of competition law"

"Everybody knows - including the OFT - that cover pricing was widespread in the industry in the past," said the body's director Stephen Ratcliffe. "

Übergeek 바둑이: .. don't forget the sumo suits and mud wrestling .. much more entertaining then watching the Parliament channel as it is!!

Bwild: It would be nice if they did.. But I imagine there would be a lot less wars. It's easy to send to war someone else.

Übergeek 바둑이: Hey... Don't forget the detail in the construction of Parliament...

Benches were placed so no sword from either side could reach.. and the politicians had to stand behind the line to avoid sword crossing.

Artful Dodger: Bush.. I thought comparison was part of metaphoric language!!

As to Wilson... he apologised. Manners, it appears at least are still respected in your houses. But as to talking... they always do. This image of being bitter enemies that is portrayed by the press of hate is just a farce.

It's as fake as wrestling!!

Bernice: No way... Registration is compulsory, but to force people to vote. Horrible idea.. That's more then people here will take, to make a choice to vote or not is still a vote. The politicians know what it means.

Artful Dodger: Yes, it's lower.. Politics can be a dirty game. But not as low as Bush's lowest.

And it seems six in ten still think Obama is working with the Republicans on Healthcare.

That both elected parties are working together, speaks loads.

Übergeek 바둑이: People in the UK have been getting pretty much tired of the major parties for a number of years. Technically, no government has had a majority for years, seeing as the voting level has dropped to 50% or there about's of the adult population.

Before, it was how MP's always agreed on good pay rises for themselves despite Joe Public having to settle for half or less of the %.

As for the Liberal Democrats.. not clean, but not as dirty as the main two. Labour came of the worst, yet the whole system has taken a bash and the necessary show of humility that needed to settle us voters fell far short of being acceptable.

The Conservatives will not commit in essential areas (troop safety) which does not lie well with me, and Labour are not listening to the Army chiefs.

I think the Liberal Democrats, minor parties and Independents will do very well. Especially in seats where current MP's have shown little or no remorse.

"It was within the rules" is a line that does not stand well here at all.

Übergeek 바둑이: I wondered why I found it as being a 'rare' occurrence. Yet the make up now seems to be a 3 way split regarding votes and political allegiances.

It's gonna be interesting next general election here, many independents will be running against the established two parties. And thanks to the expenses scandal, alot will get in. The papers made a field day of how MP's reacted to the news of the public's distaste at the way they'd been creaming it. And that some tried to bring criminal prosecution against the details been paraded.. they had no chance.

They live by the press, they die by the press.

Übergeek 바둑이: ?? Are coalitions not legal in the USA? I would have thought (as has happened in the UK) that those who are roughly on the same side would club together and form a government.

Interesting politics when that happens.

Übergeek 바둑이: No, just 'naked'.. Like the fact that until gone past the first K' AD.. Women didn't have souls.. The church ruled it so!!

History is full of those who try and hold unto power and 'tradition'.. Thankfully such times are growing hard. Freedom of information acts and the like make it much harder for hiding the dust under the carpet.

Being Gay was illegal here until about the 50's, sexual discrimination was rampant, etc, etc... The last 100 years have seen much central power diluted, and the power of voice gain more.

... Just wish the baby kissing politician would die off.. don't they think that line has been used up!!

Übergeek 바둑이: .... I think it's time America had another revolution. Imperial bosses to corporate bosses.... ALL HAIL THE BOSSES!!!

GTCharlie: Hopefully. We know politicians like their 'gizmo's' and toys.. But enough already!! How much money is going to wasted on stuff that'll never be used

GTCharlie: If we look at the past (cold war) all a missile defence of that nature will encourage is more missiles. The USSR and USA had over 100,000 nuclear warheads between the two at one stage to cope with 'unable' to launch (bombed) or shot down nukes.

And being the threat more of short - middle range. Waste of money..

Having Russia on side regarding the middle east is far more valuable logistically.

Ferris Bueller: I hope so, the Baucus bill is tooooo wishy washy in it's present form. I recon the insurance firms have been working overtime on lobbying!!

Ouch.... Gordon Brown has directly been accused by a relative of a dead soldier of being responsible of the soldiers death.

He stated that sending in troops without the proper equipment is the reason why the soldier died.. Not the Taliban.

Übergeek 바둑이: It's Senator Max Baucus version, it's not set in stone. From what the press are reporting on it. .. too much compromise. Ya can't please all the people all the time.

Übergeek 바둑이: Aye... it happens... but if your fingers get caught in the pie over 'ere...

It's like with the expenses business. Thatcher's gov made the changes that caused them to get so easy to fiddle, and the conservative party over made a point of being 'squeaky' clean over taking the mickey at the tax payers expense.

.... and MP's got caught on camera moaning that they were hard done by!!

boo hoo.

GTCharlie: Of course are empire days would be taught Just as we get alot of the same and WWII.. Battle of Britain and the like. Oh the Versailles treaty helped alot. Imagine having inflation so bad that you had to be paid daily... the next, your dosh was only half the value.

Concentration camps.. British invention.. 100 years war... 1066 (last time we got invaded), etc...

How the EU stuffed our deal with the Commonwealth countries, hence cutting good trade deals that helped many a developing country. Food mountains whilst millions die of starvation each year.

McCarthyism, Spanish civil war, Marx, Lenin, Stalin.

And religion is freely taught at schools.... But at no time is hate based faith teaching allowed in any school.

Übergeek 바둑이: Can't agree completely.. Lobbying as such as in paid, is illegal over here. Parties are allowed donations, but in no ways can that be from a criminal .. knowingly, or in any means be regarded as a favour. A recent "cash for questions" situation led to criminal prosecution.

Doner's fund the party they like. All parties gain from this, and all accounts must be published as well as all interests of MP's... Like being on a board of directors, org's they support... donations, etc.

King's have fallen here over 'politics' in more ways than one!!

Bwild: Talking of cigars.. Have they relaxed the laws on cuban's yet?

Great cigars!! Perfectly legal over here.

GTCharlie: It's not just those outside the USA, Clinton's wife tried when Clinton was in power to get reform sorted on healthcare..... but those lobbying on behalf of healthcare firms paid out millions in backhanders to keep your current system. I even heard a rumour that Hilary even had a price and got bought off, as in shut up and don't rock the gravy boat.

Various other Presidents have tried, but American businesses have protected their interests .... I still remember the case of Nixon being persuaded to delay seatbelt legislation, as the cost of fitting belts upset the manufacturers.

No-one wants the USA to fail (not any sane person anyway) ... The ramifications of a USA gone nutz or under is a terrible thought.....not sure how much is taught in the USA re Euro history...but we've seen plenty of countries go through hell from some sort of collapse... the last very big case was Germany through the after treaties of WWI..

.. That led to Hitler......

Ferris Bueller: Not last I've seen.. just the timetable is a long one. Plus many other countries are now looking at exploration and landings on the moon. It holds the potential of being a good base for long term exploration of the solar system, plus certain valuable resources are noted as being there.

I know Mars is better (as far as I've heard) in regards to H2O.. but I think it'd be wiser to test run long term living on the moon first, being closer if things go wrong.

Ferris Bueller: I wonder how at all if JFK's idea of going to the moon would have stood a chance under the seeming current need for details?

And in regards to my last post.... when it came to GWII, was every detail expected to be available for scrutiny by those against Obama and his plans? Did Bush and his gov have a plan before invading Iraq regarding the reconstruction after defeating Saddam and his crones? ................ No.

I, like others did question that lack of planning, and those who supported Bush at that time said... so what. He's the President.

As I mentioned before.. Running a country can be like a building project, you cannot feasibly plan every detail ahead... A thing every manager of a building project knows. Even a simple job, like putting up a shelf can have complications.. a simple slip of the drill.. old plaster can lead to needing to think on the job.

I thought everyone knew that!!

Artful Dodger: Then I suggest you look on the web, the Whitehouse one maybe and pour over the details. It appears that Republicans and Democrats, Doctors, Nurses, drug companies, etc have all had input. And to detail every single bit would take hours, possibly days.. and I don't think any politician has that kinda stamina regarding their voice.

.... But as such, which ever President gets in (left, right or independent) ... you'll never be satisfied and find fault. That's if you want to that pernickety and pedantic.

As one book says.. no-one is perfect and to expect perfection is a foolish thing.

Oh btw.. Obama has stated that if anyone has any good ideas, he is happy to listen.. but to just trash a good idea over political partisan rhetoric he will not accept.

Artful Dodger: P R E M I U M S

btw.. have you been to a panto recently??

Artful Dodger: The part about your country's financial system melting down, that companies (such as car) were going to cave in, leaving many many people to go on social??

"But he hasn't detailed how that will happen. It's just a theory now."

Yes he did.

"And likely it will cost the US taxpayer tons. The government never has run a public service well."

Probably because there is so much interference from the private sector... I hear there is 5 lobbyists on ya gov's back regarding finance. And the health care public system (by the speech of Obama) is to be paid for by the premiums.. or did you miss that sentence in listening to his speech last week??

"Yeah. One has to wonder why now? Congress has allowed the fraud to go on and on and now they are going to fix it?"

Best it does get fixed now rather than left to go on. Bush wasn't brave enough to fix it, others have tried and had so much pressure put on them by elected politicians living in the back pockets of private sector business...

... I guess it's like our expense business over here. The opposition (conservatives) moaning about how bad it is, but it was their government who change the rules so the gravy train was so easy to ride.

We could play the blame game as infinitum, but isn't it best to just fix the problem rather than play partisan politics which solves nothing??

As to Healthcare.. Obama said (as far as I read) that he would work towards reducing Healthcare costs by about $2.5K. As such, making the market for healthcare more competitive, cutting down on fraud, unnecessary tests, silly cop outs (such as "you didn't tell us you had acne, your insurance is cancelled") will do that.

Over here, we have plenty of price comparison sites where someone can shop for cheap insurance on cars, house, etc..... If the health insurance system in the USA was opened up in the same manner then surely it'd get to be a buyers market, where companies are fighting for peoples custom.

Isn't that living upto a pre-election promise??

Artful Dodger: As he said in his speech, more will be explained next week. He did the speech as many right wingers are making bogus claims about what he means, and he wanted to state his position, not 'spin'.

"Obama didn't clarify anything in his pre-election speeches. Few knew what he stood for."

Really.. I cannot agree from what I've seen of his pre election stuff. Plus if Obama was vague... then Palin and McCain were so vague that vague looks like a fact.

"others have said you were wrong in your analysis."

Nobody has presented anything to back their claims. That's my whole point. Where is the stuff to back up what some folks are saying??

"The budget experts are telling us (the people) that Obama's plans will only raise taxes and increase the deficit by billions (if not trillions)."

Can you elaborate and break down what these "experts" are saying, as it sounds like this is a general statement, not specific.

Btw.. The polls did show he was losing ground, but since his speech that he is gaining confidence... But if you have polls that differ, please present their figures.

Artful Dodger: I don't know where you got you figures from, but from a quick scan of polls.. I'd say it's divided. 85% of Democrats seem to approve of what he is saying.

As to clarity of his plans.. before the speech, many were not sure, but since that figure has decreased dramatically.

Part of the confusion over his plans seems to directly come from those who oppose him and his reforms presuming and creating fear... rather than a 'wait and see'.

Those who've watched his speech in full, seem to feel that he has a plan, he is explaining it... and, as he said, next week more will be released in clear legislation.

I got this info from scanning a few polls. Though as usual in polls a few % points either way has to be included as a matter of the inherent problem that polls have.

Artful Dodger: Ohhhhhhh yes he did. Or did you miss the bit about premiums paying for it??

And as for sound bites. THAT COULD BE SAID OF ANY POLITICIAN in the last 50-100 years in any country seeking to be the leader.

Please... I see nothing in any posts today that speaks, explains or debates any point!!

Vikings: Yes he did IN HIS SPEECH.

Have you watched it??

Ok, I can wait for a few days if you want that to gather info!! Don't wanna spoil your football

Vikings: *sigh* what part of listen to his speech don't YOU understand??

ALL politicians say rough policies when they are on the campaign run. They cannot be exact until elected and they've worked the figures.

Now.. prove me wrong, by direct analysis and not others 'clips'. I'm asked to do it, and do.

Vikings: the fast clip has distorted his intent. It's a miss-mash of words put in order to create fear in right wing people.

No good. No evidence.. It would be better if you didn't rely on 'clips' and did the research yourself.

That's how us public trip up our politicians come the likes of "Question Time"

Vikings: Sigh... listen to his speech, it's kinda looking like you are just objecting out of Republican loyalty and copying objections from right wing webs.

Because he was very clear in his speech over plans.

Now, if you have any actual proof he lied. I (as we do in the UK) expect to see evidence in the form of what he said (then and now).. any links you've used (so I can see the whole of what is said on the site).

Basically prove it by his words and by showing how he has differed from the normal run of politics and how governments and policy setting and enactment works.

Simplesss!!

Vikings: I think you need to listen to his speech.. I'm concerned that you seemed to have missed alot of what he said.

It wasn't a trial ballon, that was very clear.

But if you do listen to it (or again).. just listen.

Vikings: And they will unless they get competitive, stop cheating customers, stop cancelling insurances over things like "acne", stop defrauding the USA taxpayer.

There will be a shake up of the private business industry, that you'll get better cheaper insurance is a bad thing?? Or do you like over paying???

Jim Dandy: Cool.. learning new things is fun.

I second Sweden!!