Czuch: OMG...dare I say that I AGREE that you have a good idea there,LMAO!!!

Vikings: I don't have kids,nor do I want them,so I have no clue what this vocher thing is...can someone fill me in,please?? I have heard the term on the news but never paid much mind to it

anastasia: a voucher is a tax credit given to a family of a child that would attend a private school to help pay for it

anastasia: So instead of the portion of the tax revenue that would go to the public school to babysit, I mean teach, your child, that portion of the budget would go to you to use for your child in the private school, and then you would have to pay any balance for the private school out of your own pocket.


How do you feel about not having any children yet still having to pay school taxes?

Artful Dodger: of coarse it is a generalization, there are exceptions, I have heard of a public school that is in a poor community in Texas that had one of the worst records in the country that has changed their focus and is now one of the top in the nation including private, their students go to school up to 10 hours a day

Artful Dodger: exactly, and that size is more cash

Vikings:

Czuch: honestly,it doesn't bother me to have to pay school taxes even tho I don't have kids,and never will have kids...I think EVERYONE is entitled to a good education,and if thats what my tax dollars are going to,then I am all for it,sure...

Artful Dodger: doncha just love that word..."KARMA" lol

Bernice: lol.love it so much I have the symbol for it tattooed onto my ankle ;)

anastasia: ROFL.....

Czuch: I see certain conservatives that tend to be idealists with no real connection to the real world, with no real idea about what works and what doesn't work. With no real idea of peoples needs or what to do about problems except make up some strange political election promise that will never work.

So, you are trying to tell me that there are idealists in all parties... that's no surprise.

Vikings: Is that why under Bush the USA national debt has sky rocketed.

Maybe you guys should watch this film.....

"Harold & Kumar escape from Guantanamo Bay" ... especially the bit about Bush..... I would post a link here, but some stuff is not suitable for children.

"you don't have to believe in your government to be a good American, you just have to believe in your country"

(V): Is that why under Bush the USA national debt has sky rocketed.

Partly because of a war, partly because he didnt stay true to his conservative root, and he acted more like a liberal.

(V): So, you are trying to tell me that there are idealists in all parties... that's no surprise.

I tend to think of myself as a realist, I dont think utopia is achievable nor do I subscribe that we attempt to attain it.

I dont think he can deliver most of what he promised. I think he is learning rather quickly that his promise for a fast end to the war is not possible nor prudent, and the funding for a lot of his other promises was based on savings from not being in a war.

Czuch: ENERGY: "[W]e will launch a massive effort to make public buildings more energy-efficient. Our government now pays the highest energy bill in the world. We need to change that. We need to upgrade our federal buildings by replacing old heating systems and installing efficient light bulbs. That won't just save you, the American taxpayer, billions of dollars each year. It will put people back to work."

—ROADS AND BRIDGES: "[W]e will create millions of jobs by making the single largest new investment in our national infrastructure since the creation of the federal highway system in the 1950s. We'll invest your precious tax dollars in new and smarter ways, and we'll set a simple rule – use it or lose it. If a state doesn't act quickly to invest in roads and bridges in their communities, they'll lose the money."

—SCHOOLS: "[M]y economic recovery plan will launch the most sweeping effort to modernize and upgrade school buildings that this country has ever seen. We will repair broken schools, make them energy-efficient, and put new computers in our classrooms. Because to help our children compete in a 21st century economy, we need to send them to 21st century schools."

—BROADBAND: "As we renew our schools and highways, we'll also renew our information superhighway. It is unacceptable that the United States ranks 15th in the world in broadband adoption. Here, in the country that invented the Internet, every child should have the chance to get online, and they'll get that chance when I'm president – because that's how we'll strengthen America's competitiveness in the world."

(Incoming White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel had talked about expanding broadband access, but this is the first time the transition has formally proposed it.)

—ELECTRONIC MEDICAL RECORDS: "In addition to connecting our libraries and schools to the Internet, we must also ensure that our hospitals are connected to each other through the Internet. That is why the economic recovery plan I'm proposing will help modernize our health care system – and that won't just save jobs, it will save lives. We will make sure that every doctor's office and hospital in this country is using cutting edge technology and electronic medical records so that we can cut red tape, prevent medical mistakes, and help save billions of dollars each year."

Czuch: I'm sorry, but acted like a liberal? Somehow I doubt if that could be held to be a true summation of his actions while Pres.

And if you were a realist then you'd realise that a multiple party system is part of a democracy and that people will vote based not only on election promises but on the actions of the party whilst in power. That's why the Conservatives over here have found it so hard to get re-elected as the dominant party in UK politics since Maggie Thatcher.

Czuch: He probably will need two terms to make all this happen, and quite frankly with people in the USA being a little annoyed with the Republican party he might get it.

And if the Republican party block Obama in such projects, then it'll just serve to prove they have lost contact with the needs of the economy and the American people.

(V): I am not sure the kind of economic stimulation we will get from Obama is something sustainable 20 or 30 years down the road? At some point these are really temporary jobs created. Not that it wont help in the short run, but its not an economic plan to stand the test of time.

Its no different than anything else these days, our economy over the past 200 years has been second to none, but everyone just wants to look at the last 4.

The globe has gone through many climate changes in its long history, but now we hear people complain they havent seen it so hot in their lifetimes as some sort of definitive irreversible global warming hysteria.

Czuch: I don't know... The schools here have very good computer systems whether in both public and what is called 'aided' schools (ie a school linked to a religion) ... My son's infant school has dozens of Pc's and laptops....

Energy saving here has become a big issue and modern bulbs are not that expensive and save big time.. we use several in our house... and modern heating systems (such as we have) are far more cheaper to run.

.... So if he enacts the energy saving program he'll have money for other things. And as for Iraq... I imagine that if some talking is done they can work out at least a partial withdrawal saving some dosh.

The medical records thing is doable, we've managed to set up systems in the UK so it can be done.

No quick fixes here, it's stuff that whoever is the next pres after will have to continue and probably on for many years. No-one can predict the future to far ahead, so unless some major spanner hits the works, progress towards these goals can be achieved.

.... And you know it's needed if America is going to maintain it's place in the world.

Czuch: Repairing the infrastructure is a wise move in this place in time.It's not going to solve the financial mess,but it's a logical start point towards the big picture.

Czuch: The globe has gone through many climate changes in its long history, but now we hear people complain they havent seen it so hot in their lifetimes as some sort of definitive irreversible global warming hysteria.
so now global warming doesn't exsist??

Jim Dandy: I agree,one has to start somewhere,thats for sure.
The mess our country is in right now,I don;t think either Obama OR McCain could ahve come into office and solved everything they said they wanted to solve...even if our country WAS in good shape,no person can come into office and do every single thing they say they will or that they really want to..it just isn't logical

anastasia: Strategically the Republicans may be wise to sit this one out.Obama may point the economy in the right direction,but the benefits aren't sometimes felt for a number of years.Obama may end up doing the heavy lifting,but the Republicans may reap the rewards.

Jim Dandy: Repairing the infrastructure is a wise move in this place in time.It's not going to solve the financial mess,but it's a logical start point towards the big picture.


I agree, its a good plan, I think federal government should be responsible for infrastructure types of projects, and I have no problem paying for them, and they do provide jobs,at least on a short term basis, IE 10 years or so.

anastasia:
so now global warming doesn't exsist??

Well, yes the globe has been warming recently, if thats what you mean, but I think these days the term global warming is a generic term for permanent climate change.... and no I dont believe it is permanent nor is it not reversible.

It was a couple of years ago already when Gore told us that in 3 years it will be too late, that we had to reverse it now or it would be too late... I cant wait for the end of the 3 years to see what they will say then, when we have done almost nothing....

Tell me, how does Al Gore know for certain that a planet millions of years old has 3 years left before the tipping point of no return???

Our globe has been warming since the last ice age. and before that it was cooling, and before it cooled it was warming.. hehehehe its what this planet does, its nature, are you really suggesting that we change nature?

Yes, man does have an influence and an impact on our environment, and yes, I am all for conservation and all the carbon foot print blah blah blah, my personal carbon foot print is a lot smaller than Gores, I can guarantee you that!

You might be one who hates the big bad greedy oil companies... well believe me, there are some pretty greedy people out there ready to make billions on this global warming hype too! Dont be naive enough to think its all just conscientious people pushing this hype, there is a lot of money to be made by many pushing this thing, and its not all about saving the planet to them either.

BTW, last i heard, the ice glaciers were growing again?

(V): I am not saying that Obamas ideas arent god ones or that they wont work or are not doable, I just am not sure they are any type of permanent solutions to our economy... the government pumping money into the infrastructure will be good for everyone, and it will provide temporary jobs, but what happens when the road or the bridge is built, and the high speed cable is buried, then what do the construction workers do? What do the restaurants and the other hospitality people do after construction wrokers are gone? Its just not a long term sustainable plan, but who cares right??? we will all be dead by then, and someone else can figure out what to do then, right?

Artful Dodger: So that's why both McCain and Obama both agreed that human caused climate change is real. So both right and left agree.

... No clubbing.

Czuch: Then maybe the way of things will have changed again and the USA economy will be on steady ground again. And no, we will all not be dead by then, some in this lifetime will get to see the results.... I plan to here for at least another 30-50 years... what about you?

(V): . I plan to here for at least another 30-50 years... what about you?

The point about us being dead, was that most people dont really care about after we are dead, its all about today...

I listen to the news and they say something like, it hasnt been this warm since 2002, or we havent had unemployment like this since 2005..etc... like its some earth shattering thing!


let me know when its five straight years of decline, not sure where I am going with this, early here still, I just want people to be able to see a bigger picture than just how am I affected today or the past 4 years, and say that we have a great foundation that has worked for 200 years, dont panic now and make changes that are good for the short term but have no real future....

Czuch: No, it's not just about today, most people actually (well the ones I know) are looking into the future and how things maybe. ... If governments were not then they'd be no action on Global Warming, no concern. No long term think tanks looking at what might be.

The changes Obama is trying to implement are needed for the future prosperity of America and to reduce the running costs of your country and hopefully therefore lead to a decrease in your countries national debt.

Czuch: BTW, last i heard, the ice glaciers were growing again?
could you send me a link on THAT one,I would be interested in reading it.
And yes,I AM suggesting that we are changing nature.
Agreed that the earth goes through her own heating/cooling cycles,but humans and all of our greenhouse gasses and polution and waiste,and definatly adding to the warming effect and essetially throwing off the earths cycle of balance.Put 100 people in a small room,think will eventually start to get warmer?? now have some of them smoke,now have a few cans of hairspray spraying,now have put some animlas in there with ya,maybe a running car or 2...after,oh lets say...not even a day,ya THINK it will start to get a bit nasty in that room?? Even IF you had a good ventalation system installed,one that would have worked perfectly fine for say,you and your family....start throwing other stuff into that mix and you ventilation system doesn't do such a good job anymore does it??
Humans are a parasite...a cancer on this earth,and one day she will have enough of us abusing and taking her for granted and find her own way to get rid of us...I just hope when that day comes,the earth isn't so far beyond it own repair that it becomes a waisteland

anastasia: Nahhh the earth won't dump us.... but we might do so much damage through not understanding our impact properly that the earth might become a hostile enviroment causing the deaths of millions upon millions.

..... people will be fighting over good living places and it won't be pretty.

anastasia:

Humans are a parasite...a cancer on this earth

I just hope you are not being serious...

Pedro Martínez: Sounds like my favorite Futurama celebrity: http://theinfosphere.org/Richard_Nixon%27s_head

Pedro Martínez: why?

anastasia: I think because it implies we ain't supposed to here. While I agree we have mucked things up and not really thought about our impact on this world and how our use of resources and chemicals has been reckless and in some cases very dangerous....

.... We live here, we may only be borrowing it (as the saying goes) from our children, but we live here.

We are not parasites, just foolish and often those in power or in industry just don't think things through.. or the tech is just not there to understand the impact.

Eg these new anti ageing agents with nano-tech.... No-one really knows the long term impact of using such agents on the skin, or so certain scientists are saying.

Artful Dodger: Are you 100% sure we have no impact on this planets weather? If that's so then why did London pass a clean air act to stop the fumes from coal fires making the sir so bad that people were dying from it... Again with London or more specifically the Thames, we polluted that river so badly that if anyone fell in it at one time it was more then likely they died from poisoning?

And that your supreme court has decided that CO2 is a pollutant.....

....".... under the federal air quality law and told the EPA it must determine whether CO2's link to climate change endangers public health or welfare."

Artful Dodger: As I said, are you 100% sure that global warming is all hype? As you have just said we do have an impact on the planet....

Maybe those on the supreme court are not scientists, but those in the EPA are or have access to them don't they.

... And the scientists appear to be about 90% sure we are making an impact.

Also your Federal Climate Change Program commissioned By Bush states....

"....Studies ... show clear evidence of human influences on the climate system (due to changes in greenhouse gases, aerosols, and stratospheric ozone). ... The observed patterns of change over the past 50 years cannot be explained by natural processes alone, nor by the effects of short-lived atmospheric constituents (such as aerosols and tropospheric ozone) alone."

Artful Dodger: and like I had said...yes,the earth DOES cycle BUT we are overloading it...the population,the polution....hey,did anyone happen to see,there was a report,I want to say maybe Dateline or 20/20...about the most toxic place on earth?? the death rate and cancer rate was through the roof?? anyone see that to know where they were talking about?

(V): I'm not implying we are not suppose to be here,I am implying that we take and take and take...we need to stop and look around at what we are doing to this planet.

anastasia: I think it is a place in china...you cant drink the water or breathe the air, and the children have lead? in their blood, but I cant be sure...I think it was on 60 minutes

Bernice: yes,that sounds like the part of it I heard....all kinds of birth defects and stuff??

Artful Dodger: seriously?

IMO it is absolute arrogance to think that man can cause global warming, Key word is GLOBAL!
For centuries man has attempted to make it rain result failure, man has attempted to stop every weather related disaster, result, failure. everything that causes the earth to heat produces the needed changes to cool the earth. everything that causes holes in the o-zone also produces the things that stop the holes, whales are trapped in the north atlantic from ice this year earlier than any other redcorded year, Last years cold temperatures entirely wiped away the last 100 years of heating so as a result no change in the climate temps. Snow is actually thicker in greenland, by the way why is greenland called greenland? Man tries to conserve forest by not allowing clearing or maintenance result failure. Every scare tactic used by either these fraudes or misguided people with good intentions has proved false starting with the first one I can remember, John Denver and his"by 2000, there will be no trees".
These are just my opinions that I will never change because no one can prove them wrong same as not one of these scientific pieces of evidence can hold up to any real scrutiny, which is why all these scientific experts refuse to debate anybody of significance

Vikings:For Centuries the Native Indians have claimed to be able to make it rain,but as well they have been located to reserves where they live with nature and live off the land so there is a great better understanding of knowing what your losing,as in respect to global warming and being able to appreciate the planet as they say you are what you eat,therefor if you use something you better be able to replace it,as in if you cut a tree down plant another,but if you cut too many trees to build too many homes, where will you plant the next one,i guess space aviation is more important than our planet.

Bernice: and anastasia I think you mean this:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/06/60minutes/main4579229.shtml