Artful Dodger: On "Question time" last night that was mentioned. More talk was on the latest batch of "cash for questions".. paid lobbying to you. Yet another sting operation was carried out by the Sunday Times and BBC with hidden cameras.

All broadcast on "Panorama" last night.

Funny, you'd thought after the last time it was done our "Lords" and MP's would be more careful about being caught with their heads well and truly in the trough.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2013/jun/06/verizon-telephone-data-court-order

"The US Center for Constitutional Rights said it appeared to be "the broadest surveillance order to ever have been issued"."

funny.

Iamon lyme: In your mind?? lol ;P

Iamon lyme: It's ok... I've adopted the standard of not answering as laid out in "Yes Minister" and "Yes Prime Minister". Also with contributions from 'Prime Ministers question time' and Saturday and Sunday politics shows where saying nothing is the norm...

.. also, it seems to be the standard here.

It'd be nice if that changed... a Common principle.

Iamon lyme: Hey..... I'm just following your logic dude. lol

Iamon lyme: That liberals don't think... Or just in your mind they don't.

... Conservatives don't think in your mind also...

Fascinating... Your mind is completely free, unless those damn liberals take away that liberty or the conservatives make it smaller.

"He gave the tin man a clock (a ticker) the scarecrow a diploma and the lion a medal of honor for courage. So yes, he did give them the secular equivalents of a heart and brains and courage."

Secular humans don't think in my mind. Neither do feminists.

"Secular humanists haven't learned anything from watching the Wizard of Oz, because they act like you don't have a brain unless you go to college and get a degree. No degree, no brains."

Isn't that stereotyping?
Stereotypes don't live in my mind!!

*whistles*

Iamon lyme: Yes... but it's hardly a good example of 'mysticism', and the original telling of the event made it look like you met him in some 'mystic Christian' church lol

"By the way, the Wizard of Oz gave Dorothy's three friends a heart and brains and courage.
He didn't demand payment for it."

He didn't give them, he just showed them they already had it in them. In some respects an analogy of someone who's confused about how to interpret their emotions and feelings correctly and of the over coming of the likes of panic attacks and other fear/flight driven feelings.

"Liberals don't think in my mind. They think in their own minds."

Your mind is wrong then, as everyone thinks... or, everyone 'is' and sees their thoughts. Depending on your philosophical standing!!

"No one needs to be a so called 'Washington insider' to see which way the wind is blowing."

Your a tornado conspirator? Obama caused it in your mind???

"Cowardice, and lack of common sense and integrity is to blame. You can't BUY courage or common sense or integrity... either you've got it or you don't."

Is this the way all Liberals think in your mind.. even the ones who serve in the armed forces?

"No, I didn't say that."

"I assume you are asking me where did I learn about mysticism. My first encounter with mysticism is experience with it. When I started believing in God I went to various churches and meeting places. I wasn't aware of how many different denominations and cults there were claiming to be Christ centered, or included Christ in their philosophy. One time I talked to someone who started off claiming to have an IQ of 170. That should have been my first clue that something wasn't right with him. He told me the Bible was one of five books (representing five major religions) he reads, because they all (collectively) represented what he believed."

....your words... Maybe you could clarify.

Iamon lyme: Oh... You said he was a mystic.... you didna say he was a 60/70's hippie!! lol

"No, they were voting against other things in the bill."

N' no-one thought "lets separate the two items and still approve the funds for defence"?

"So now you think I'M dumb, eh?"

Noooooo I think what you are telling me happened regarding cuts to the defence of embassy's is dumb. $530 million in cuts in two years in a world where a certain war etiquette such as existed in the cold war no longer exists.. is dumb.

"and then we were expected to believe a youtube video was to blame."

No... you say you are. The rest of the demo was based on the video I believe.

"Cowardice, and lack of common sense and integrity is to blame."

Like I said, cutting down on funding is dumb.

Iamon lyme: So if not liberals, then who told republicans "...the budget needed bolstering on the defence of such places"? Other republicans?

I think it was the body within the US gov looking out for security of embassy's etc... At the time of the last budget setting for the likes.

Individual names.. I can't remember.. Maybe it was Mr E J Fudd??

"If republicans aren't to blame for the screw up in Benghazi, then what exactly is your point?"

Point!

"And why would anyone be telling republicans we need to bolster defenses?"

Because the Republicans were voting against more funds.

"I may have mentioned it. Is that what you're talking about?"

Yep.

"One time I talked to someone who started off claiming to have an IQ of 170. That should have been my first clue that something wasn't right with him. He told me the Bible was one of five books (representing five major religions) he reads, because they all (collectively) represented what he believed. I told Mr IQ of 170 it didn't make sense for him to include the Bible in that group, and explained why. And all he needed to do to see if this was true or not was to read what his Bible says about it. Mr IQ of 170 didn't like that, not one bit... because I was right. My average bowling score at that time was well over 200, so take THAT Mr IQ of 170!"

Sorry, it was a mystic church.

Politics (Iamon lyme, 2013-01-08 21:25:07)

Iamon lyme: I wasn't.

" So where do you see liberals worrying over cuts to the military?"

I'm not looking for them to be worrying. I'd be worried if the USA does a turn around on finally accepting it cannot afford to be at war as much as it has been since the 1950's. Or more killings like that which happened yesterday in the UK.

"What bloke?"

The Church bloke... how you got to hate liberal churches...????

Iamon lyme: Don't need to. You'll just say I'm being dumb again.

Like that bloke said you were.. the one who said he knew better than you.

Think about it, don't react though. ;P

Iamon lyme: I don't know. I wasn't there. It's like with talk on how a UK minister had a mistress.. The French perspective was "he wouldn't be trusted if he didn't have one".

"I might still be saying dumb things like "...the republicans were told the budget needed bolstering on the defence of such places.""

So you are behaving the same, just switched parties??

... I woulda changed the way I was behaving if I was supposed to be different!

Iamon lyme: I know. I didn't need you to tell me that!! ;P

"This is about Benghazi, remember? Warnings were ignored, action was not taken, and then a cover story was concocted to make it appear as though nothing could have been done about it."

Yeah I know, the republicans were told the budget needed bolstering on the defence of such places.

Can I concentrate on that? Is it ok??

Btw... Is this how you reacted to the Watergate scandal?

Iamon lyme: My start was....

"The cover up of Watergate was not the fault of the president nor anyone in his administration."

.... your words. I then quoted two articles that state that Nixon was probably not part of the espionage. But, he tried to cover it up.

Hence my conclusion "The historians say.... he did know!!" .. debunking your claim he wasn't involved in the cover up.

Clear?

Hillsborough.

96 dead. 24 years of cover up by the police, judicial system, politicians and civil servants.

They tried to blame the football fans.
At least half could have been saved.


Shame on all those who covered it up.

Like the CIA?

Halliburton?

Iamon lyme: One rule of war that still holds true today. It's the ground troops that win the day, everything else is just support.

Pedro Martínez: A statement that he did not before.

"he took steps to cover it up afterwards, raising “hush money” for the burglars, trying to stop the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) from investigating the crime, destroying evidence and firing uncooperative staff members."

What do you think that means?

"While historians are not sure whether Nixon knew about the Watergate espionage operation before it happened, he took steps to cover it up afterwards, raising “hush money” for the burglars, trying to stop the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) from investigating the crime, destroying evidence and firing uncooperative staff members. In August 1974, after his role in the Watergate conspiracy had finally come to light, the president resigned. His successor, Gerald Ford, immediately pardoned Nixon for all the crimes he “committed or may have committed” while in office. Although Nixon was never prosecuted, the Watergate scandal changed American politics forever, leading many Americans to question their leadership and think more critically about the presidency."

http://www.history.com/topics/watergate


"Recordings from these tapes implicated the president, revealing he had attempted to cover up the questionable (and illegal) goings-on that had taken place after the break-in.[2][5] After a protracted series of bitter court battles, the U.S. Supreme Court unanimously ruled that the president had to hand over the tapes to government investigators; he ultimately complied.

Facing near-certain impeachment in the House of Representatives and a strong possibility of a conviction in the Senate, Nixon resigned the presidency on August 9, 1974.[6][7] His successor, Gerald Ford, then issued a pardon to him."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_scandal


The historians say.... he did know!!

Iamon lyme: .... Common law states that everyone is accountable. No-one has any special privileges above another.

Clear?

Iamon lyme: Not the likes of Officer Bubbles I imagine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMTm3QRwEc

Iamon lyme: No. In America maybe.... your laws are all enforced so I believe.

But in the UK, all acts and statutes ....


""As common law comes from basic human morals if you’re considerate to everyone and respect their equal rights, don’t cause harm, injury or loss or fraud in any of your contracts you won’t break common law. Until a true crime has been committed we are all equal in the eyes of common law. As we are all equal, authority can only be gained through consent which in theory forms a contract, without that nobody can claim to have any more rights than you. If they try and take them by force that doesn’t make them authority but an enemy, unless you submit and then you have consented. Statute law is created by the government in the form of legislation and the only way this can possibly operate while it’s a common law country is through consent. Instead of being based on principle, statutes are based on words that can be added to, changed or removed. Statutes are legislated rules of society and are loosely described as law only because they are given the power of law by the consent of the governed, as it is a common law country and everyone is equal that means you. No one can consent for you on your behalf without your consent. Some would say the government can give statues the power of law because they represent the people but if you didn’t vote or voted for a different party or didn’t even put your details to register to vote, how can they claim to lawfully represent you. They can’t say the simple fact of you being in the country is consent because it is a common law country.""

"The fundamental law system of this country is common law which is based on principles rather than words. The source of common law is pure natural human nature, unwritten law or “gods” law."

""The distinction between a law and a statute is that a law applies equally to us all but statutes can be made to favour one sector of society over others, for example, people with disabilities are given preferential parking privileges (which is fair enough) and politicians have given themselves special dispensations re their expenses which the rest of us do not have (which is outrageous).

- There is a compulsion to obey laws. Laws defend our freedoms and liberties and through them we live in peace and harmony with our neighbours. Failure to comply with laws would render an individual an outlaw. If you do not respect the law then it can afford you no protection.

- Obeying statutes is voluntary i.e. with our consent. Any individual can withdraw their consent to being governed (controlled) by the statutes of a society. This might involve their exclusion from that society and the loss of benefits, but when the imposition of the liabilities outweighs the benefits, then that might be a price worth paying. The choice is and should be yours.

- Consent must be given by the individual and not by a collective on behalf of the individual – this would be dictatorship by the majority. There is no freedom in having to do whatever you are told. Each individual must have the absolute right to give and withhold their consent. This is the basis of our constitution – individual freedoms.

- Government is elected into ‘office’ not ‘power’ as they frequently like to claim.""

>>>>>>>>>....... As one who hates government I'd thought you'd love this sort of thing. :P

Iamon lyme:

Simple explanation...

" Common Law was established by Alfred the Great, who reigned from 871-899AD. He compiled the laws and customs of the nation into the "Liber Judicialis," based on the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule. Alfred's son, Edward, declared

To all who are charged with the administration of public affairs I give the express command that they show themselves in all things to be just judges precisely as in the Liber Judicialis it is written; nor shall any of them fear to declare the common law freely and courageously.

In contradiction to the Common Law, the Civil Law of Rome prevailed in continental Europe. When William the Conqueror invaded in 1066, he brought with him jurists and clerics steeped in the principles of Roman civil law. Our ancient laws and customs withstood the shock, and remained without any serious amendment. Common Law includes the Charter of Liberties, which makes the Monarch subject to the law, the 1102 Synod of Westminster, which abolished slavery in England, the 1627 Petition of Right, which granted the right to criticise the government without fear of arrest, as well as Magna Carta and the Declaration of Right. Common Law defends property rights and rights to self defence.

Many of our greatest constitutional documents are Common Law documents. These are not Acts of Parliament. Their principles cannot be repealed by Parliament, and when our Monarch swore to uphold the "laws and customs" of the people of the United Kingdom at her Coronation, those "laws and customs" include Common Law."
.......

"In the year 1215 the first of our constitutional rights were set down on paper, it was called the Magna Carta, this was basically an oath from the crown (King or Queen) to uphold the rights of the people set down in it and to look after the peoples best interests, in return for the crowns promise to the people they agreed to be ruled by the crown, so it was a contract between crown and people basically, and it became the law.
The crown had to uphold the rights and common law as did the people, not to cause death, harm, or loss to another, or be fraudulent in your contracts (in other words be honest and true).

In 1689 the bill of rights was set down on paper, this basically sealed all the rights given in the Magna Carta plus a few more, both documents contain our UK common law written down and formed our law.

These two documents are the main fundamental parts of our UK constitution, yes we do actually have one, many claim that the UK has no written constitution, this is not true. We have the most respected constitution in the world, it is the basis of the constitutions of the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and India.

Rather than being one written document we have several that make up the UK constitution, the primary of which is the Magna Carta and the 1689 bill of rights. (the freeman movement in Canada seems to be gaining respect from some Canadian policemen) Part of both the Magna Carta and the 1689 bill of rights states that they cannot be repealed because they are such well made laws and rights! "

................Understand?

Iamon lyme: Or just revenge.... like plebgate.

Maybe we should have Bieber busted for smoking weed in the UK for being such an annoying idiot... But that would break his common law right, even though it's illegal.

You need to watch "Yes minister" dude.

Iamon lyme: Is it?

Will the whole of the White House have to retire to Cuba?

Will the shop down the road run out of Cuban cigars???!!!???

... Please, I need to know!! ;P

Wow.... It beets the tax fraud.. ... sorry, targeting of innocent mutilnationals in by the UK government.

Billions of revenue and paying just £6 million in tax.

.. it such a small story man. .... *sniff*

.. or is it that persecution 'chip'?

"I'll give you a hint. This most recent scandal involves the IRS targeting conservatives and conservative groups, such as the Tea Party."

Well if they have nothing to hide... what's the problem.... or is that persecution 'chip'?


... Wow. They can be like Jesus and turn the other cheek!!

Is that it?

Iamon lyme:
.........God might have sneezed and that might have formed the first clump of material that formed the Earth...

"By the way, seeing as how you've mentioned the Tea Party, I haven't heard a peep out of you about the left wing establishment's most recent scandal. Nothing to say about that?"

I've not heard a peep about either in a while. Except via your gates...

... btb.. Is it big? Is it like the shenanigans of one MP (who was on "I'm a celebrity, get me out of here" wants to run for the dual vote next election?

Will it kill Kenny again?

... Sorry, it's "Question Time" night.. a rather satirical (supposedly straight) show at which MP's blame each other and avoid answering anything... with two peeps on the ends... one left and one right. ... .... ...

Rather like those two mice in a certain Zen story... strawberries!! :)

Iamon lyme: Fear mongering we consider part of the way America is now. The NRA, Tea Party, Christians, Left, Right.

It's just who you guys are.... America is known for it's paranoia and double standards. Yep!! Hence that line in "Iron Sky" when the US President is called on the fact they have an armed spaceship in orbit ..."We lied, we always lie. So what!"

"and cannot deny what they have been doing, then they will say everyone does it. hmmmmmm.... why does that sound familiar? Where have I heard that before?"

You, loads of people... Prime Ministers Question Time, WWF show, Church, Scientologists, the government, a reality show, Jeremy Kyle, the Daily Mail?????? :P

"AND our output. I sneezed this morning. It impacted the planet and forever changed the course of human evolution.."

.... the sea is made up of water molecules of a 3 atoms. Do you think though.... God might have sneezed and that might have formed the first clump of material that formed the Earth...

... Think about it!!

If we are talking about the end of the world... Why are so many religious people forecasting it??

Is it purely as a means to create a congregation of people afraid of their God and fleece them? Or just a tax dodge??

Iamon lyme: ..... The left is responsible for fear of pregnancy? Constant fear mongering...

Now it's the left, not the women!?!

As for climate change... we need to be aware of our input as a race. We've already changed much of the natural world... That's a fact. Ignore the extremists on that subject on all levels, whether left or right. ;)

""or fear of what women will have to face if abortion is abolished, such as pregnancy and dirty diapers, not to mention *shudder* the abstinence needed to avoid that threat.""

No mention of the mans responsibility.

"Do you think women are stupid, and all you have to do is to say someone blames them and they will all automatically believe you?"

Uh? I'm talking to you!! You're not making sense.

Iamon lyme: Hey... Dude. I'm only asking you to clarify yourself, as some items are not clear. But you seem to be just blaming women.

You blame Feminists. ... sorry, I missed that period of equal rights being called for.

"And by the way, calling abortion birth control is like calling genocide population control. I don't care how clever you think you are, or how you try to sugar coat abortion... it is what it is."

Wow... Heavy Dude, do you think you could use less extreme talk. It don't make your argument bigger.

N' what are you blaming me for?

Your reactions??

"or fear of what women will have to face if abortion is abolished, such as pregnancy and dirty diapers, not to mention *shudder* the abstinence needed to avoid that threat."

And if as in some families the man says no contraception.. baby comes along... have an abortion or else.

"I was a jerk with women, but at that time I saw myself as being a 'nice guy'."

Is that your way of explaining why you put all the blame on the women?

"Tell that to feminists who say women do all the work."

I'm not a feminist so that's irrelevant. ;P

"I'm not saying all women will regret it, and many of them will buy into the kind of response I'm anticipating from you about this... I'm no longer a liberal, but that doesn't mean I've forgotten how liberals 'reason'."

That doesn't even make sense.

"I believe abortion is bad. So?"

Ok.... Pretty much everyone agrees it's not nice. But you can't blame the women, especially in a country like yours where in many areas 'men rule the roost'.

Or do you believe conservatives don't have abortions?

Iamon lyme: Then stop talking like you do. The way you talk about women (or a couple) wanting an abortion is bad.

It's a matter of interpretation of how you are stating your opinion.

"or fear of what women will have to face if abortion is abolished, such as pregnancy and dirty diapers, not to mention *shudder* the abstinence needed to avoid that threat."

You know it's the 21st century... Men have been changing nappies, dealing with early feeds for decades.. What about men abstaining?

"Bringing up a story of kidnapping and rape and trying to link that to what I was saying was childish. Grow up."

"And this will be my LAST post on this topic."

Make your mind up will ya!! ;)

Iamon lyme: no. read back.

Iamon lyme: Ok... Maybe then you'll get back to the points you keep avoiding then through all these misdirection games you like to play ;P

But hey... your a conservative and it's ok for you guys.. At least the American Conservatives... not any other conservatives as they are not the same!! :)

Iamon lyme: And?

Iamon lyme: Nope.

"There was a time when no self respecting man would resort to that kind of tactic... but times have changed haven't they."

No. I've seen it used here by conservatives all the time. But they say it's justified... so I'm feeling a little hypocrisy in such a statement.

"Liberals preach the same message to men, that screwing around is your God given right and you shouldn't have to suffer any consequences as a result."

Do they? I remember such talk in the Bible.... was that written by a Liberal?

"But what is truly laughable is the fear of no longer being able to behave like a child, but actually being expected to take on adult responsibilities. I'm talking about people who ARE adults... or at least appear to be."

Point!
A mature body does not mean a mature mind.

"I was making fun of people who act as though pregnant women have malignant tumors growing inside of them instead of children. That's sick, and something is seriously wrong with people who regard their own flesh and blood in that way."

... Point proven.
.....There was a time when no self respecting man would resort to that kind of statement, but times have changed haven't they.

Artful Dodger: Found some weeds that tasted like rocket.Then I realised I'd planted them!!

First salad leaves of the season ;P

Iamon lyme: No.

But it gets you hopefully to stop blaming women for being pregnant and using bad arguments yourself regarding pregnancy... it takes two to tango. I don't think we have many virgin births these days!!

That was the intent. ;P

Iamon lyme: He got elected 4 times.

"any of the gains made by your conservatives are chipped away at by your liberals."

What gains did Bush give you?

"Conservatism isn't distrust of the people, it's distrust of government."

No. It's distrust of anyone in power who isn't Conservative. You guys were quite happy for Mitt to be elected. But then they make promises like smaller government.

"or fear of what women will have to face if abortion is abolished, such as pregnancy and dirty diapers, not to mention *shudder* the abstinence needed to avoid that threat."

Do you think those girls who were locked up and got free recently had a choice?
Please... stop with the stereotyping of women as being the only ones in the loop re birth control.

Unless, you think men cannot be responsible at all and therefore the entire burden of birth control is on women?

"You are so focused on money you could have become a banker, or an economist... or a doctor, or lawyer. Didn't anyone ever tell you that money can't buy you love? Or happiness?"

Didn't you ever here the phrase "follow the money" when it comes to criminal activities.... profit? Not like in "Dogma" when it was about "two prophets" who were gonna help save creation.

Yes.. Money does not buy happiness. But some people who have holes in their hearts think it does.

Maybe that's why the G20 are now looking at fighting aggressive tax avoidance.... They are fighting the greed... or the idea of young ladies hanging off their arms as they have big wallets.

..... Old rich men can get lonely you know!! ;P

Iamon lyme: Yep.... I know also this one by another British PM, William Gladstone.

"Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence. Conservatism is distrust of the people tempered by fear."

As for Democrats lying....

I think after hearing that the USA interfered with Italy's 1948 elections and did for the next 24 years via the CIA...

..So what? Why should anyone outside the USA care about whether they do or don't? Realistically we were lied to for decades.

The 50's golden age for the USA... Paid for by the USA government via the Marshall Plan. They gave money to Europe and Japan, we used it to buy American merchandise from American companies.... hence creating a false cash flow bonanza for American companies.

... I can't find the "Iron Sky" film clip. ;P

Iamon lyme: Well that's American politics... we avoided alot of that except for history lessons until Maggie started employing such tactics.

"because at that time I was a member of the Democratic Tabernacle Choir, singing the praises of the left and pointing to Watergate as an example of Republican corruption."

Our history lessons were more focused on spying in the UK than Watergate. We had a few who were of the upper class and converted to communism then spied for the USSR.... High up ministers sleeping with Russian agents.. ... etc, etc.

"I'm only telling you this so that ignorance cannot be used as an excuse"

Hey don't pass on your regrets onto me regarding your past political views. Get over it and stop beating yourself and 'liberals' up about it!!

Iamon lyme: ok.. I get why in the world of politics such needs to 'get at' your opposition is used... We see it all the time in the UK by all the parties.

Left, Right and Centre leanings all do it.

"but apparently the significance of comparing Watergate to other scandals is lost on anyone other than conservatives."

Significance being opportunistic 'loud' mud slinging, like in PM's Question time? Some scandals they go on about often are molehills... but they are trying to paint them pink/tartan and other bright colours.

Iamon lyme: You can't enforce it. I was referring to how it could get ridiculous using the term at every 'opportunity'.

"Unless they are commited by members of a party or by people you don't particularly like, then it's okay to focus all of your attention on them. Right?"

Wrong!!

"Well there ya go now, that's the spirit! By the way, thanks yet again for proving my point... not that you understand how, but that's okay. As long as you keep validating my points it doesn't really matter to me whether you know it or not."

Ok..... as long your not keeping a tick mark system on points. That would be creepy!!

;P

Artful Dodger: But is it the ineffable one? Adam Young stopped the apocalypse on that point!!

Iamon lyme: So we should now use 'gate' on all political scandals? I know the Met police got labelled with "Pleb-gate" recently after being caught lying.

I get that there are scandals committed by members of all the parties and various people in the public eye.

... but 'gate' .. .. personally, Iran-gate would be a better example of the right lying, or WMD-gate... but on that we had a Labour PM (supposedly left wing) lying as well.