Snoopy: I did not know disagreeing with someone was putting someone down. And the video did show a man with his hands in his pockets being hit and pushed from behind.... since when has that been legal?

(V): And the video did show a man with his hands in his pockets being hit and pushed from behind.... since when has that been legal?

Its legal if during a riot, the police command you to show your hands, and to move out of the way.... as far as i know, it is ilegal to disobay any command from a police officer, and they always have a right to force you to comply.

Now if, during this procedure, you have a heart attack, or you bang your head and end up dead, then that is not murder, and it is your own fault you are dead, or it is a coincidence, and you would have died of a heart attack anyway.

I am NOT saying this is what happened, but it is possible that a video doesnt tell the whole story, and like Snoopy said, if it was all as clear, cut and dry, as it appears n the video, then this investigation would have ended long ago, so the length of time it is taking tells me that your first assumption, that it was clearly murder, is WRONG

Czuch: Not to misuse violence. Not to hit someone then push them to the floor if the person is not causing or in the way of a greater harm.

And it's manslaughter they policeman is possibly facing, not murder, just as I said in the posts I posted when the story first hit the news.

(V): Not to misuse violence. Not to hit someone then push them to the floor if the person is not causing or in the way of a greater harm.


That is all true.... BUT, the video tape does not tell you anything about that, the video does not tell you if the police thought he was concealing a weapon, or if he was a known suspect, or if he was told to take his hands out of his pockets and move away,.. my instincts tell me that with all the other stuff the police needed to tend to that day, he was obstructing justice, he was the negligent one, who caused his own death because he neglected to follow the direct orders of the police, and if he was still alive, he should be charged with manslaughter for his own death

Czuch: Czuch... the guy had his hands in his pockets and was hit and pushed from behind. Plenty of police around to just arrest him without that kind of attack.

As such, the whole of the handling of the G20 protests by the SPG is under review.

(V): How do you know from the video that the police didnt tell him that they were arresting him for obstructing justice, and then he still ignored them, and they were trying to subdue him for arrest?

Czuch: for gods sake.....don't encourage him, puhleese.

Bernice:

Czuch: ..... Doesn't excuse hitting and knocking the man down from behind. Even if they were arresting him.

.. if they were KGB or SS or part of some other dictator based militia, then fine. But we don't... do you? Your police still have rules don't they....Do you remember Rodney King?

(V): I read on the net that this guy was only going home to his family? sounds like the cops in the UK are getting as bad as the cops in the US that's messed up man *52*

Starsky: "as bad as the cops in the US"

THAT'S messed up. A couple bad eggs does not define the group. What do YOU do for a living?. I'm sure we can make silly generalizations about that, as well.

Artful Dodger: If he is being violent.. ok. But otherwise.. as you say. Rubbish.

Artful Dodger: This is the UK.. not the USA, as a rule.. arms are a rarity.

Artful Dodger: No he doesn't, but at the same time the justification for police violence has to be justified.

I hear no justification from you, just excuses. Is it in the USA that the police can get away with anything... I know the answer is no to that.

Artful Dodger: No we cannot own guns in the UK. Only those who use them as a tool of the trade such as farmers and game keepers... you did know that didn't you?

... and it's a bit hard to hide a shotgun or rifle in your trouser pocket.

Artful Dodger: You didn't see him being hit.... not very observant are you!!

Artful Dodger:

Witnesses said that, prior to the moment captured on video, he had already been hit with batons and thrown to the floor by police who blocked his route home.

One witness, Anna Branthwaite, a photographer, described how, in the minutes before the video was shot, she saw Tomlinson walking towards Cornhill Street.

"A riot police officer had already grabbed him and was pushing him," she said.

"It wasn't just pushing him – he'd rushed him. He went to the floor and he did actually roll. That was quite noticeable.

"It was the force of the impact. He bounced on the floor. It was a very forceful knocking down from behind. The officer hit him twice with a baton when he was lying on the floor.

"So it wasn't just that the officer had pushed him – it became an assault.

"And then the officer picked him up from the back, continued to walk or charge with him, and threw him.

"He was running and stumbling. He didn't turn and confront the officer or anything like that."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/07/video-g20-police-assault

............ quite frankly I don't think you or Czuch have researched the incident properly, and before hand you did say the police were wrong.. why the change of heart?

(V): Thanks for the link... thats the first time i have seen it, and it more than confirms what I was thinking... the guy was being obstinate, he was purposely obstructing their policing duties, maybe they could have simply wasted more time and effort, and arrested this guy, but they just wanted him to move along, as everyone else was doing.

It is also obvious that this shove in the back is not what killed him, as he got up and walked away on his own afterward... really? If you have contact with the police and end up having a heart attack later, its police murder???

The guy was far from "minding his own business"

btw, here in the US, we respect the police, and once you choose to ignore any command they give you, no matter what your personal feelings are about the command, you obay it, and when you dont, then anything that happens to you after this is all your own fault. You can always after the fact make some action if you think what they did was wrong, but if they tell you to get out of the way, for any reason, you take your hands out of your pockets and you move out of the way

These police will never be charged with murder, as you would have them

Czuch: First time you've seen it!!

Manslaughter.. not murder.

Artful Dodger: Art... look up Hungerford and Dunblane.. you are looking like you don't know what you are talking about TOTALLY!!!

Artful Dodger: So in your area, the police can hit or assault anyone?

Glad I live in the UK then.

Artful Dodger: AT LAST.......somebody who agrees with me...............DISHONEST, a prevaricator of the truth, or a blatant liar.....which is it or is it all 3........

Artful Dodger: I'm not being dishonest... I'm asking a question/making a statement based on your posts.

Get over it!!