Discuss about checkers game or find new opponents. No insulting, baiting or flaming other players. Off topic posts are subject to deletion and if it persists the poster faces sanctions. This board is for checkers.
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O čem je toďten plk: Re: Gooner's GAYP BK Championship. Invitational (Checkers)
Gothic how do you figure George Miller was able to defeat programs..at least at one time? His play jammed them up from a one down position. Of course that was some time ago.
Program vs Program matches are interesting but over the board face to face matches determines the real champ in my opinion. Looking at some of the old Wylie games of the 19th century before anyone could even spell program I saw some marvelous defensive play. I think he would have a good chance today.
Thanks for the links. It has been a year since I looked at programs but Cake and Nemesis were the top of the line then. WCC had just come out with a platinum but the highest database I remember was an 8..which was awesome enough.
Then my question would be... What's the point of it?? Buying it would be worth it as a substitute for books only. Playing it would be a waste of time.
Why haven't you ever decided to play in the big events Ed??
Its not a case then of trying to master the game of checkers then?? It's money which motivates you?? I certainly don't dispute you and Gil's dedication to this program but are you not interested in showing your skills face to face, either on a competive nature or otherwise. I will be in Vegas to view some of the play in August, we could have got together for a game.
BTW..How long do you think it will be before you master the game of checkers????
Maybe I missed your point but I don't see how they are linked. The patent is for a program, I was refering to you taking part in a tourney yourself.
So how long before checkers is mastered then???
How about the 2004 American championship in Las Vegas between 2nd August and the 6th or 7th August Ed? This is what I am referring to. Mainly because I am going to visit the event to view some of the action.
Wouldn't you like to pit your WCC against the top programs in the world? It would be a proud achievement to walk away as the best and give you some free promotion for your product.
BTW......You never said how long it would take you and Gil to master the game of checkers???
Thanks Ed, a very fasinating insight you have given me. It shows quite clearly what most average checker players (like myself) don't realise and thats the sheer scale of this great game.
It reminds me of the Tinsley V Chinook match, when Tinsley worked out that the computer could "only" see 26 moves ahead in all variations (millions of moves). So in order to win he was looking 27 moves ahead. A genius.
Many of the top players on the gamesites use programs and the average player has zero chance against them. The chances seem to be slightly increased in Pro Checkers but it is still very very daunting. I knew a grizzled old vetran named Richard Fortman who could pretty much hold his own against programs but he had like about 50 years experience. Nice, great old guy.
Just one more question. What skills, if any, does the operator require? Does a superior, more experienced operator with a slightly inferior program have any advantage over a better program with a relatively unskilled operator?
I mentioned this because I have seen cases where Nemesis gives false positives. In theory if you are +40 it is a win but I have seen Nemesis give a +40 and then take it away after the opponents next move. And this was after Nemesis recommendation was followed to the letter.
I played this bright young programmer on IYT and used book..on the 9th move I still had 8 checkers left and none of them could move wothout losing the piece. Everything looked fine but I was sandbagged. He has played in Vegas so he has great natural ability. In our second game he resigned with the board even so he just wanted to try out his program. Still in his teens I think. Awesome player.
like Fencer has said - if you can draw graphics for pawns, kings, queens, and parachutists in the four sizes and send them to him, he will add them :-)
You could ask him if he received them - and if he did, you could ask him why he didn't want to use them so maybe you (or someone else) could make better ones.