Why should a two-game match be forced?? If you think that's the only fair way to play, then refuse to play any single games and only play two-game matches. If someone wants to play a single game, why should you try and stop them?

Because a single game is potentially unfair, whereas a 2-game match with alternating colours can't be.

Ok, what do you think about that:
You can play a two games match or a single game but If you want to play a single game than you got to be the first one to move (you can't take "advantage") ... would it be fair ?

I assume you mean open invites can only be sent if the playing sending it is to play first? That would just create a problem similar to IYT - you have to figure out who has to invite who to play certain colours. I don't think anything needs to be changed - Five in Line is even more imbalanced...a proven forced win from the start by player 1 (by move 24 or something like that). If there are invites waiting for the wrong colour, don't accept them.

Maybe we should take a step back and remember that 8x8 line4 has not been solved yet. Neither player has been proven to have a sure win.

Yeah ... BuiderQ seems right. Until we have a mathematical prove of the second player advantages we should keep it the way it is now. Anyway ... I'll keep on accepting invitations for double games (or maybe games where I'm not the first one to move :)))).

Question please:
If I played my next move on C2, will B2 then be playable for my opponent?

No, your opponent will not be able to play B2 at that point.

Thanks Rod -- appreciate your time.
=^..^=

Maybe a variant in which pieces could stick to the sides of other pieces would be interesting.

Perhaps it could be that pieces would only stick to each other, and not to any side. White's first move would have to be in the center, and play would build out from there. Some sort of restriction would be needed to prevent it being an easy win for the first player, though.

If it had to be in the "center", it would have to be an odd-sized board. And I assume you mean only orthogonal "sticking" (ie: not diagonal)? I don't think it would be an easy win for the first player.

Yes, it would be an odd-sized board, like in the pente games, with only orthogonal sticking.

Once I have time for it, I'll do a little study to prove the first player's advantage.

Do you mean that it would be like players "shoot" their pieces from an edge and they travel until they hit another piece (ie: if a space was surrounded on all four sides no one could ever move to it)?

No, I meant that a piece could be placed anywhere that was orthogonally adjacent to the position of another piece.

It still doesn't appear to be a forced win for either player...

Ok, I guess it is a forced win for player 1 from the start...! :-)

I'll post the complete game move tree once, and if, I can find it.

Rules: The variant is played on a 7x7 board. The first piece must be placed in the center; subsequently each new piece can be placed in any space orthogonally adjacent to an occupied space. The first player to get four in a row wins. The player who moves first shall be refered to as White, while the second player is Black.

The move tree below details how White can win in, at most, eight moves. Most of Black's moves are forced, and where there are options, each is played to conclusion.

1. d4 c4
2. d3 ...
Black can do either d5 or d2.

With 2. ... d5
3. d2 d1
4. c3 ...
Black can do either b3 or e3.

With 4. ... b3
5. e3 f3
6. f2 c5
7. e2 g2
8. c2*
1-0

With 4. ... e3
5. b3 a3
6. b4 e1
7. b5 b6
8. b2*
1-0

With 2. ... d2
3. d5 d6
4. c3 ...
Black can do either b3 or e3.

With 4. ... b3
5. e3 f3
6. e5 b2
7. c5 b5
8. f5*
1-0

With 4. ... e3
5. b3 a3
6. e5 b2
7. c5 b5
8. f5*
1-0

Does anyone know of a game site offering the variant Euro 4?

I think that if this game was played on a 9x9 board, there would be no need for rules 2 and 3 on the game rules page for AntiLine4, what does everyone else think?

Yes, but strategy would be completely changed. Maybe draws would become too common? Still, it's something to look into...

I'd also like to see regular Line4 on a 9x9 board. :)

Are there any computer programs that play Spider Line4? I could do with a bit of practice. :)

builderQ
challenge me anytime you want a bit of practice ;O)

It would be very easy to implement on BK. Does anybody know more about that variant?

Hey Line4 experts,
what would you say to Spider Linetris? Would it be an interesting variant? :-)

How would it work. Just the "outside" wall would disapear and everything else "shifts" that way, or would any line disapear and have everything else shift right or left to fill in the line.

(not to copy off too much from other sites), but I like how GT have a random piece placed on the board which both colors can use, and how they have a "black hole" space random on the board which NO player can place a piece - OF course they don't have those of the "spider" line games, just the normal line games, so i guess it would not be a copy there.

Also something that would be cool to try is some "special" shape boards. For example:

Square Wheel: 12x12 board with middle 4 spaces "blocked" out - BUT can build from the middle spaces also!

Just the outside wall would disappear and everything else shifts that way. If you fill two walls at once [corner move], both lines disappear and everything shifts diagonally.

Spider Linetris sounds really interesting!

Nope, except I keep losing to the TitOT software...as both colours...lol :-)

Seems like a fun game though!

Yep, it does! I'll have to experiment with it a bit and see how it works! At least it would get rid of those pesky occasional draws... :-)

What happens? Does the restriction against playing on top of the last piece prevent the final column from being filled?

Interresting question! It is certainly draw before the board is completed if there is no legal move

Geez! Sounds crazy!! I would be absolutely gutted if a line just totally disappeared after spending hard work building up a win! lol! Just the thought of trying to work out the new moves Spider Linetris would create is hurting my head! lol! Sounds good though, maybe worth trying, as one line disappearing could turn a game completely on its head!

How about changing the square shape board to a Spiders Web shape! As BBW said, 12x12, & Web shaped would be cool. Have the middle space reserved for a spider there..and call the spider SPIDERM4TT!! lol :-)

By "Spiders Web shape" do you mean hexagons? (ie: 3 directions to create lines rather than four?)

yeh hexagons, pentagons, octagons or whatever seems to work. It will be an intresting concept

As for a spider web shape... the spaces have to be a shape that can tessellate. Or is it the general shape of the board that we are talking about?

Isn't it mentioned in rules? When only one column remains, a piece can be placed on top of opponent's last piece.

No, it isn't mentioned in the rules, but thanks for the clarification.

Then I should add it. Thanks for notifying me.

If you had 2 top linetris players evenly matched, then who has the advantage, is it white or black?

I would say black. Zugzwang generally forces white to be the one to complete the bottom row, enabling black to stack four vertically in the newly-created spaces at the top

Yeah I find it a little easier playing black

Thanks :)

Can pieces left floating (unconnected to any edge or other pieces touching the edge) serve as bases to stack from?
Maybe the description of this board should be modified? :)

No, even in this case the rules are the same as for Spider Line4. All squares between target position and the corresponding wall must be filled.

i came here to post a suggestion for a variation but found out Sprietzsche already posted abot it in the past

noone ever comment about it though ?

are there any reasons why noone responded about an 4x4x4 board for line 4 ?

I just found out (though it says so on the rules) that only the borders can disapear. A complete line in the middle of the board will remain there... (too bad, the game was being interesting)

But now, what if, after removing a full line in one of the borders, another full line takes its place? Is this one removed as well?

Yea, I thought it would be cool if any full line would disaprear.

Based on the example of Froglet's success, I wonder if the popularity of Spider Line 4/tris could be elevated through the use of pieces with a more thematic quality. Click here for an example of what I mean. :)

I like that, BuilderQ! ... maybe some sort of web throughout the board too? (dim, so as not to look TOO "busy")

Well, click here to see one possilbe web pattern.