ScarletRose: I think there's a degree of truth in most of these points of view.Do I think studies could show pit bulls to have far less violent temperament than depicted?

Yes, but a percentage of owners train them otherwise,it's the owners who are at fault.
There are always going to be out of character accidents,like a toy poodle thirsting for blood,and in some cases a dog(any breed)is just plain mean,owners just have to be careful,animals are unpredictable.

by the way,I too love labs,and have wanted one for years

Yeah.. I have heard dalmations aren't the family dog they are portrayed to be on 101 Dalmations..

here is one link.. http://www.dogbitelaw.com/breeds-causing-DBRFs.pdf
I know it is outdated.. I am looking for the one site I found interesting.. I realize Pit Bulls aren't the only dog who attacks and kills.. but, they are the breeds most often found in fatal attacks between human and dog.. my husband found a study more current. here is the link
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%201982%20to%202006%20Clifton.pdf

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html#Thedogsmostlikelytobite - another link that offered the above link. Excellent resources.. and lots of infor.

http://www.dogbitevictim.com/ - A list of victims and their stories. Not all are from Pitbulls, but most of them are.

as for dogs who bite.. those stats aren't as accurate mostly cause people don't often report dog bites. examples.. friends and family don't often report dog bites. My son was biten by a puppy when he was walking down the street. a chunk out of his arm which eventually healed .. we did go to ER room to make sure it would be okay. We didn't give specifics since we didn't want to see the puppy killed.. his owner was harsh enough.. several months before that.. we had an employee who had a Pit Bull. It supposedly was her husbands dog and he had passed on a year earlier.. well, her dog bite my thigh when I went to her front door, and 2 months later bit my son in his leg.  We didn't report either bite since the pit meant something to her.. when she moved.. we learned  of 2 others who were bit before us.. so peeps don't often report dog bites..

ScarletRose: The ATTS (American Temperament Test Society) has standard tests that they give the dogs. The American Pit bull terrier came in with an 84.1% passing rate. The American Staffordshire terrier came in with an 83.9% passing rate. Those are not bad figures when you consider that so called "family dogs" such as the collie passed with a 79.2%, that cute little Chihuahua passed with only a 71.4%, and Americas favorite family breed, the Golden Retriever passed with an 83.8%.

I don't believe that a pitbul has ever had the number one ranking as the most "vicious" dog.
When I owned my dalmatian,they were ranked higher then the pit as far as biting goes

ScarletRose: Here's one story

Six week olds can be pretty small depending on birth weight.  Sad story all around.  Wish I could find an original source for the story but it's probably too old. 

anastasia: in responce to the Pomeranian killing a six week old.. I suppose it is possible.. I do find the line a bit hard to swallow when they claim the babies head was inside its mouth. I have a Pomeranian and her mouth is tiny.. maybe a barbie dolls head could get inside it.. haha..

I learned last year after watching a pitbull snatch up a pom.. that it is mostly how the dog is treated.. my pom attached herself to me. She gets upset if I don't take her with me. The car gets too hot anymore so most times she is left at home. I babysat my grandson with Iggy there.. she was always so gentle around the baby.. her breed is very showy.. she likes to be the center of attention. She was a Christmas gift a few years back. I never thought I would take to a small breed dog. We had a Chihaua when I was younger. And that dog was mean. We treated it nice. but, if he got excited he would come out and nip ya.. I have seen one or two Chihaua which were actually nice.. but, generally those peeps who own them usually have to keep them in their bedrooms when guests drop over.

We did some research last year when we witnessed the dog fight between my neighbors dogs. I didn't want to go outside and was very concerned for my grandson after that. Unfortunately Pit Bulls always ranked up number one as vicious and the 2nd one was an off breed of them. I can't remember the name. It wouldn't have surprised me if I saw Chihaua up there as well.. but, #3 was a Rotweiller.. personally I wouldn't own any of those breeds. If I were to have gone out and intentionally picked out a dog.. I would have gotten a golden retriever.. they are the gentlest and the smartest of dogs. We raised them when I was growing up and my ginger had so many tumors in her when I started having my children. Heck the babies would climb all over Ginger and you could tell she hurt.. but, she never snapped or growled at those babies.. and every retriever I have met since has been a sweetheart.. Oh well.. I will get off my band wagon..

all in all some breeds have a tendency to be vicious.. mix that with nasty owners and you have vicious.. I still find it hard to think the dog had the babies head inside its mouth..

anastasia: GOOD LUCK WITH LIL MISS NIK AND HER CGC CERTIFICATION, ANASTASIA!

anastasia: I don't blame you.  I hate it when I drive somewhere only to find the event canceled.   These days it's more costly and that's all the more reason for organizations to be on top of things like this.  Let us know when you get a reschedule. ;)

Artful Dodger: well,I am blitzing off a STRONGLY worded e-mial AND making a phone call tomorrow to the all breed club..they cancelled the test tongiht but never bothered to notify! With gas at $4.09 a gallon,it cost me more then $10.00 to drive there and back for nothing! UGH!
I will have to test Lil Miss NIk next month then and then get her certified right after.

anastasia:  You go girl!

anastasia:  You bring up a good point about dogs in the part (or wherever they might be).  I think it starts with responsible pet ownership.  When I took my dog anywhere, she was on her leash.  I knew that I could command most situations but  she was faster than I and there was no sense in taking a chance of letting her roam free while we walked together.  But when we got to an open field, I'd let her run.  As long as there were no other dogs or little kids to distract her. 

My daughter was in California visiting relatives and her 3 year old was attacked by a dog.  The dog was on a leash but it just went nuts and charged my grandaughter (this was a few weeks ago).   My son in law came unglued on the owner.   They had to call the police over it.  But then there are other dogs that are well trained and they'd never do that sort of thing. 

We've got an interesting situation in our neighborhood within the last two weeks.  There's this big brown dog (not sure what kind but maybe part lab?) and it just showed up.  It lays in the middle of the street and just hangs out.  All the time!  (we lived in a culdesac where there are three culdesacs and the dog lays on the main entrance road)  Someone must be feeding it otherwise why does it stay?  I'd go make friends with it but am afraid it will "adopt" me.  lol.  I think I'll bring it a treat later though. ;)

I am off to take my dogs to take their CGC test now,wish us luck,lol...kidding,they don't need luck...well,maybe my Lil MIss Nik does,she likes to play more then do her obidiance.Hoping that next month I will be able to get her certification for her to be a therapy dog :)

anastasia: No,the general public rarely does hear about those thankless jobs trusted to breeds such as pit bulls,but sadly that's the nature of our news.I think you know by now that I'm on your side on most points of this issue.

Artful Dodger: Damien use to LOVE kids..now he is more muture and a bit older and doesn't tolerate them as well,so I don't let kids pet him.They can look,but not touch,because I will NOT take that chance.
A WONDERFUL way to break the ice with a dog is to offer treats..I tell everyone I meet this,it starts to earn the trust of a dog.If a person is truly "bad" the dog knows,and he will let YOU know.
ANY DOG that just flys off seemingly unprovaoked has issues,weather it be breeding,socialization (or LACK OF IT) dominance issuses,or terirtorial issuses,but these can ALL be adderessed by the owner being responsible.
I train dogs and do you think I will walk up to a strange dog,big or little that I don't know? no way..why? because I am not stupid,lol.I also do not EVER allow my dogs to be offlead,EXCEPT at the training club,and it is under INTENSE training that they can be offlead.I have at LEAST 5 dogs a week run up on us at the park and the owner yelling that famous.."oh!! it's ok!! my dog doesn't bite!!" ummm,ALL DOGS CAN BITE! and what if mine did bite? people are so ignorant when it comes to dogs and it just rubs me wrong!

anastasia:  Our neighbors had big aggressive dogs.  I think they were just being territorial and since we had dogs to maybe we were "the other clan."  But I was determined to be accepted by them so I bought some big size doggie treats and offered my peace offerings at every opportunity.  Now their dogs come to visit me.  I have the treats by the door. 

I think small dogs have a tendency to be more high strung and agressive (certain breeds).  I know our smallest Yorkie was like this.  She was a mini but would go after all the big dogs (thanks for the fence which helped her be brave).  She didn't even have any teeth to bit with but she'd bark bark bark at anything that moved.  My experience with larger dogs has been that many of them are far more easy going than the little ones. 

That said, I personally don't feel comfortable with larger dogs unless I know them.  And even my own midsize dog I kept at bay when it came to my grandchildren.  It wasn't worth the risk.  I don't think she (part Spitz part Blue Healer) would have hurt the kids ever, but I was always careful about it.  She was agressive towards strangers and she and I had a battle (which I eventually won) over who the Alpha was to be.  She never bit anyone (nipped at me once when I stepped on her tail...can't blame her). 

I have no more pets now.  The dogs have died and recently the cats have disappeared.  We have no idea what happened to them.  They were always at the door for their meals and at night would come into their little beds (they were the neighbors cats .... long story)  ;)  I'd love to get another one but wifey says no and since the neighbor has plenty, I do get my daily dose of animal contact.  (they even have goats lol) ;)

Jim Dandy: You never hear about the siezure detection Pit. The search and rescue pit that found seventeen 9/11 victims. You never hear about the drug dog, you never hear about the bomb sniffing pit, you never hear about the seeing-eye pit, or the helping-paw pit, do you?

srnity: oh!! I read an article of why small dogs seem to have that "superman ego"!! So many owners hold their little dogs all the time,which puts them at a level to look down on other dogs,so when they are actaully put on the ground,they still have this sence that they are "over top" the bigger one.
And I agree...I have been bit more times by of all things,weiner dogs,then any other types.
Dogs have PREY DRIVE..it is what God intended a dog to have,it is nature.When IRRESPONSIBLE owners tie their dogs out and never walk them or never mentally stimulate them,they go stir crazy and they see kids riding by on bikes and running past screaming,all the things kids do and the dog one day snaps.That isn't the dogs fault,it is the owners fault.Just like it was the owners fault that I got bit by the weiner dog,because anytime that dog would snap at someone,they would laugh,it was cute and funny to them.Wasn't so funny when my leg was bleeding tho,gotta tell ya.

I'm intimidated more by a small dog then a big one every time, I'll take a pitbull/rottie/shepherd/doberman anyday. Small dogs, in my opinion, seem to be way more snappy and/or mean to people and other dogs - but I always figured that they are trying to compensate for their small stature.

anastasia: Yes,I said a baby would be at risk,but cats have been known to smother babies too

Jim Dandy:

Small dog kills 6-week-old girl in California
October 9, 2000
Web posted at: 6:17 AM EDT (1017 GMT)


LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- A small Pomeranian dog killed a 6-week-old baby while the infant's caretaker briefly left the child unattended to warm a bottle of milk, authorities in Los Angeles said.

The relative, who was caring for the infant girl, found her head buried in the dog's mouth Saturday night, sheriff's Deputy Cruz Solis said. The girl died of head trauma at an area hospital, he said.

anastasia: I was at my local humane society last week,at least 70% of the dogs were pit bulls,a little poodle was shaking and looked terrified from all the barking,it was a sad scene........................in regards to your post,some smaller dogs may be more aggressive,but they don't possess the power to kill like a pit bull,maybe if the individual stood still and let themselves be bitten a few hundred times,but otherwise unless it's a baby,the injuries would be far less than that of a likeminded pit bull

When you think of dangerous dog breeds, which animal do you picture: a pit bull or a wiener dog?

According to the results of research published in Applied Animal Behaviour Science, the breed most prone to aggression is the dachshund. New research that involved questioning 6,000 dog owners, found that one in five dachshunds have bitten (or tried to bite) strangers, a similar number have attacked other dogs, and that one in 12 have even snapped at their owners.

Prior research on dog aggression focused solely on dog bite statistics. Using that data, breeds like Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, and Dobermans were thought to pose the most danger. Researchers now feel prior studies were not painting a full picture, as most dog bites (especially those of smaller dogs) go unreported and were not included in the past.

Chihuahuas ranked second on the list of aggressive dogs, while Jack Russell Terriers came in third.

Just like with people, it's not fair to stereotype an entire group based on the actions of a few. But it's also good know some small dogs might not be the ideal choice for children.

I wonder how this will playout,

http://cbs4denver.com/pets/lakewood.dog.shot.2.764122.html

wetware: That's great news,at least some good has come from this sorry episode.

srnity:

THAT'S ONE COOL LOOKING DEER!! LOL!!

srnity:

AND JUST HOW LONG HAS IT BEEN LAYING THERE DEAD???? UNLESS THAT MOOSE WAS
DRESSED DOWN IMMEDIATELY AFTER IT DIED THE MEAT IS NOT SAFE TO EAT, NOT EVEN FOR DOGS!
IT WILL SPOIL, ESPECIALLY IN THE SUMMERTIME,
VERY QUICKLY UNLESS IT WAS GUTTED AND
HUNG UP TO DRY RIGHT AWAY. BEST LET THE
BEARS HAVE IT IS MY; GUESS! BUT THEN AGAIN
THE SMELL OF ROTTING MOOSE MEAT MAY NOT BE TOO APPEALING TO THE BEARS EITHER?!

best of craigslist > alaska > Dead Moose
Originally Posted: Thu, 8 May 10:33 AKDT
Dead Moose
Date: 2008-05-08, 10:33AM AKDT


I have a dead moose free for the taking.

It died yesterday, apparently of natural causes. I called Fish & Game to come and get it. Apparently, moose are a natural resource and belong to everybody, until they die, then they belong to whoevers property they die on. So, according to Fish & Game, the moose now belongs to me. Sweet!!

So, if you want a free moose, please come and get it before the bears do.

You could use it for dog food, or stuff it and put it your front yard, bear bait, whatever. If you live in the lower 48, this might be your best opportunity to get a free Alaska moose. I dont really care, I just want it out of my yard.

Please reply via email, I dont need all the animal rights folks calling me, its dead, and according to Fish & Game, its got no more rights...

* Location: Anchorage
* it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

best of craigslist > dallas > Ferocious Attack Kitten
Originally Posted: Mon, 2 Jun 19:10 CDT
Ferocious Attack Kitten
Date: 2008-06-02, 7:10PM CDT


Ferocious attack kitten is available for adoption to any home willing to accept him.

This destructive kitty has been trained as a proud warrior and will fiercely defend your house, even against you. Well-trained since 10-weeks of age to attack anything in his presence, he will protect your family from evil things, including the following:

* insects

* other trained attack kittens

* babies

* toilet paper

* anything under a blanket

* unwanted house guests
* paper bags

* floor rugs

* Chuck Norris

* Feet.

Great with children (assuming you don’t like the children). Probably best used for professional catfighting. He is housebroken, but only because he wants to be. This attack cat has trained himself to seek out his food anywhere you hide it and rip the bag open to feed himself, great for those who travel extensively. Also trained to drink water out of toilet bowls and dishwater from items in the sink. Knows how to open some doors. He will find you wherever you hide.

Neutered (trust me, you wont want to him to procreate). Has not been declawed, but you'll figure that out really fast.

Understands and responds to a variety of vulgar and profane verbal commands. Has a very soft and furry belly, like a teddy bear - however he will bite your face if you try to touch it.

Willing to accept trades. Potential adopters must have experience with trained attack-kittens... please be prepared to show scars.

For the love of God, someone please take this thing out of my house.

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/dal/705407729.2.jpg

best of craigslist > seattle-tacoma > found cat--black with white stripes
Originally Posted: Mon, 19 May 15:13 PDT
found cat--black with white stripes
Date: 2008-05-19, 3:13PM PDT


Hi, I found a cat today near the arboretum. She's black with white stripes down her back. She seems a little standoffish. Does not get along well with children.

She doesn't have a collar, but seems to be an indoor cat and went without hesitation for a can of cat food I opened for her.

I think she's been away from home a while. She's quite smelly. May need a bath.

Please e-mail me to claim. Small rehoming fee (to cover the cost of the litterbox and cat food).

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sea/687162102.jpg

Does anyone here own or have experience with Boston Terriers?
I just picked up one, as you can see by my icon, and I would like to start up a group or fellowship for them. Mine is 9 weeks old.
I will post this on the pets board as well

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080611/capt.b374481c5e3543cfa80c045b09fc6414.italy_unicorn_pto101.jpg?x=264&y=345&sig=x_G7_OK1NMIfvymtyNG4kg--

This undated photo provided by the Center of Natural Sciences in Prato, Italy, Wednesday, June 11, 2008, shows a deer with a single horn in the center of its head. The one-year-old Roe Deer - nicknamed 'Unicorn'' - was born in captivity in the research center's park in the Tuscan town of Prato, near Florence, Gilberto Tozzi, director of the Center of Natural Sciences, said. He is believed to have been born with a genetic flaw; his twin has two horns.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080604/capt.c95f7d420f8b4d64b35e572b57e9dc2d.italy_close_encounter_lon110.jpg?x=318&y=345&sig=j0C_r5O8hwJ36P7koMwJBg--

In this 4-picture combo Pippo, the tabby cat, has a close encounter with and is seen off by a pet rabbit while out strolling in Cassano D'Adda, on the outskirts of Milan, Italy, Wednesday, June 4 2008. Good for Pippo that rabbits do not climb fences.

srnity: all together now....

AWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!! to cute!!

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080529/capt.d016e0b41bcf45cdb2743b1a69ba188b.squirrel_dog_mom_mebru102.jpg?x=247&y=345&sig=ntInS.TUrFM1mcLoQy9DfA--

A Chihuahua pup named Zachary from Cundy's Harbor, Maine ,snuggles,Wednesday, May 28, 2008, with one of three orphaned squirrels that his mother is raising along with her own two puppies.

is it related to doves crying?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4TBRcPwbL4&feature=related

If youre concidering becoming Vegetarian (which is such an important thing in my opinion, not only because of the animals involved but for the planet as a whole) look at these two web sites...

http://www.vegsoc.org/

http://www.vegansociety.com/html/

anastasia: LOL - I think it's something that was a LONG time coming for me. I just couldn't deal with bones and such anymore (Thanksgiving Dinner - turkey, turkey, turkey - was always a rough one for me, even as a kid, I felt sad for the beautiful bird). I still eat some animal products tho, milk, eggs, butter, but hopefully nothing that any animals are actually "put-down" for (I guess). Both my sons are meat-eaters tho and that's entirely their choice ... I don't think our country makes it very easy to give up ... it's everywhere, true?

srnity: I have tried 2 times to give it up...first time I got the flu and the second time my dad died...after that,I thought,hmm,maybe I am not meant to be vegatarian..I know,I know,lol...those 2 things were just coincidence.I really would like to TRY to give it up,if not give up,then at leats cut back....alot...I guess I jst dunno HOW...seems a silly thing to say but its true

anastasia:  My thoughts exactly.  I wonder how wide spread these practices are?

Basically THE reason why I personally can't eat "meat" anymore .......

Artful Dodger: I have herad some horrific things about HOW chickens are kept but I have never heard of this practice either,about the chicks...after seeing pics tho of HOW the hens are kept..makes me not want to eat eggs or chicken tho

anastasia:  I don't know.  I wasn't aware they did this sort of practice.  It's horrible.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080505/capt.906dd00a63874f79a9793398e07ffb44.aptopix_peru_jaguar_cub_lim104.jpg?x=400&y=290&sig=EeZFHmOtKv6SGBrnTnS0FA--
A newborn black Jaguar, Panthera Onca, who is two-month-old and yet to be named, plays at the Huachipa zoo in Lima, Monday, May 5, 2008. The cub is the third black Jaguar born in captivity in Peru

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080515/capt.dcb0dc88bd8b4225abf04e119dc55dcc.gosling_coyote_scarecrow_mams101.jpg?x=400&y=322&sig=7Z.wL4z3a9wqfNBq.Df3dg--
A gosling looks for food in front of a plastic coyote posted as a scarecrow on a lawn, in Tewksbury, Mass., Thursday, May 15, 2008. The plastic model is designed to scare away geese and keep them off the lawn, but appeared to have little effect on the young bird

Artful Dodger: oh dear GAWD! that link was just terrible to look at...HOW ,in this day and age are companies able to get away with something so horrendous!?!

anastasia: Ohhhhhhhh, not good ......... what comes around, goes around, only a matter of time ....... shame on them if it's true .......

anastasia:  Here's an information link.

anastasia: that's really sick that they do that. I could never do anything like that. It seems so cruel.