(V):

> "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

> "I'm from the CIA and I'm here to help."

Isn't the CIa the government too?

I suppose the Department of Defense is part of the government too. I don't see any Republicans talking about reducing the CIA's budget or the defense budget. But then, I never saw a Republican admit that the military are part of the government too.

Übergeek 바둑이: It is and it isn't. While the US government says drugs are illegal, the CIA are quite happy to allow drugs in to the USA that kill as long as 'goal A' is protected.

Now.. if that is the US government policy officially. Then it means that as long as 'goal A' is achieved it doesn't matter that US citizens die.

But we have to take into consideration private enterprise interference.

(V):

The CIA is PART of the government. They do whatever it takes to destroy the enemy. It means supporting fascist dictators, drug dealers, weapons dealers, mercenaries, terrorists, etc. It is well known both by the American government and the American public. Not only is the CIA part of the government, but it is BIG government. It is possibly the best funded of all government agencies. The NSA is not very different, as is the Office for Homeland Security and the FBI.

The general excuse is that this is what it takes to protect freedom and democracy. However, under the Patriot Act anybody suspected of terrorist activity can be detained. In essence the USA has turned itself into a quasi police state. People are free to consume, to say anything they want, to do anything they want, except do anything that leads to political change or a change in the Capitalist economic system. The function of the police state is to ensure that the rich stay rich and the working class stay working for the benefit of the rich. It is a form of police state socialism. The state has a monopoly of judiciary and military power. All that is missing is children ratting on their parents, and you will have full fascism.

In fairness, it is not just the USA. Almost every western country has become that way. "Big government" means programs that help the working class and the poor, but it will never mean a bloated police and military.

Übergeek 바둑이: I call it a modern form of the old feudal system. Just now the CEO's of corporations have replaced Lords and Dukes. There is no socialism in this.

The State has just replaced the King.

Übergeek 바둑이:"The general excuse is that this is what it takes to protect freedom and democracy. However, under the Patriot Act anybody suspected of terrorist activity can be detained. In essence the USA has turned itself into a quasi police state. People are free to consume, to say anything they want, to do anything they want, except do anything that leads to political change or a change in the Capitalist economic system. The function of the police state is to ensure that the rich stay rich and the working class stay working for the benefit of the rich. It is a form of police state socialism. The state has a monopoly of judiciary and military power. All that is missing is children ratting on their parents, and you will have full fascism.

In fairness, it is not just the USA. Almost every western country has become that way. "Big government" means programs that help the working class and the poor, but it will never mean a bloated police and military."

I think that's worth reading again. Morally, our elites are dead. Any doupts?

Übergeek 바둑이: The department of defence is on of the few jobs the government is actually supposed to be doing and funding, legally

Vikings: Does that include the virtually slave labour that is used to manufacture military equipment? 2 million sla... I mean prisoners now working for pennies.

(V): duh, the CIA is the government.