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(V): A living wage being one you can afford to live on decently, we have no guarantee of that here. It certainly isn't written into any laws, nor does the government seek to force companies to pay more, since the unions were gutted by Reagan, etc. We do have what is called a "minimum wage," which stands at $7.25 an hour, I think, or something close to it. But let's assume two parents are working for minimum wage...that simply doesn't cut it, and by a long shot.
We also have a small tax credit for children, which some receive once each year at tax time. Sure it helps, but not much. What we don't have, that you do (unless I am mistaken) is national health coverage. Many millions in the U.S.A. don't have insurance. They are one accident or illness removed from the kind of debt it is very hard, sometimes impossible, to recover from. Not to mention that, having no insurance, the care itself will be substandard for an long-term ailment.
You speak of the stupid bankers. It is the same here. In fact, the bankers in England & the bankers in the U.S.A. are often the same people! Laws are always going in effect to protect the bankers here, rarely if ever the citizens. And the credit card companies, etc. That's why I'm not a Democrat, though I spend more time here debating Republicans. For example, our new Vice President, while a senator, pushed credit card laws through giving the companies more power to raise interest rates without reason, etc.
We have no cash incentives based on savings, at least not built into the government system. My brother spent some time in Germany in the '80s, said at that time the poor were much better off than the poor here. No one was destitute. Here, we have homeless veterans living on the streets, etc.
The Usurper: Yes, we have National health coverage as well as the ability for people to buy private policies if they wish.... often though in cases of speciality, it's the same consultant, just he's getting a little extra cash via his private patients.
I heard that the lack of universal health coverage is costing 10's of thousands of lives each year.... I can't understand a policy that kills it's own people through lack of a basic service necessary to peoples well being.
.... One doctor from Africa came over with his team recently to the USA to run a clinic for those without health insurance.... why is such a thing necessary? The USA's current system is inefficient, expensive to run and delivers less service then many many countries less rich then the USA.
Why the waste? Can't the USA government stand upto the lobbyists and tell them to get lost and be ready for change for the better in order to save lives? Or are the 'perks' that some get from 'deals' to much to resist?
... Something stinks about the situation and that some put money above lives of their own people, basically via lack of care letting them die. Over here we call that Corporate manslaughter, those responsible would be in jail.
(V): It certainly stinks, and Corporate manslaughter is an accurate way to describe it. The government doesn't stand up to the lobbyists here because the lobbyists own the government. Many politicians move back and forth, from government jobs, to lobbying jobs, and vice versa. We are the richest country in the world, but that wealth is actually accumulated into relatively few hands. This trend has continued very strongly during the last 3 decades, so that, economically speaking, the Democrats are now to the right of where the Republicans used to be. The result is tragic for the working man.
But let's assume two parents are working for minimum wage...that simply doesn't cut it, and by a long shot.
Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place??????????
Its just so frustrating to listen to you babble on about how poverty is because of lack of opportunity, yet you live in the country that offers more opportunity than any other, and when we try to give Iraqis a chance for more opportunities, instead of sending them food decade after decade, actually giving them hope to take care of themselves, then all you want is for Bush to go to jail, and whine and cry about the imperialist nation builder!!!!!
Its kind of like the example where no one breaks any laws, ever.... well, what would the police do, or the jails, what about all the revenue generated from fines and such????? As much as we say we want no crimes, at the same time we rely on crimes to make us money and provide jobs.
Its no different here, you say you dont like poverty, yet what would liberals do if there were no poor to hand out money to, what if there were no one that needed the government to help them, then where would liberalism be??? You rely on the poor and uneducated and the elderly and the down trodden or else you wouldnt even exist, you have no interest in getting rid of poverty, you just want to keep peoples heads just above water, like a drug dealer, you want them to need you, its your only life line.
件名: Re: Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place
Czuch: Are you saying that only the rich should have babies? Are you proposing a somewhat big brother approach to having families where only approved parents can have children and any poor people who have babies are to be prosecuted and jailed?
Liberals rely on the poor and uneducated and the elderly????
Can you explain that? As it seems some capitalists rely on the poor being poor, some parties rely on their voters being 'uneducated' and 'uninformed' to get their votes, and what has the elderly got to do with it?
As for the downtrodden, why are people treading on them? Are some people that empty they need to tread on people to feel good about themselves, or would a gradual process of tackling the problem(s) be a better and greater idea.
件名: Re: Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place
(V): You see my point, about how many Americans think. It is so twisted, it is hard to unravel. And Fox News, the content of which you can now examine for yourself, gives you an indication why.
件名: Re: Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place
(V): You obviously dont listen closely enough.... nobody wants him to fail, we just dont think huge government spending and other parts of his plans are the right answer.
Nobody wants our country to be in economic ruins either, we just dont think that is going to happen, we simply got way ahead of ourselves, and we are naturally correcting, where does it say that we are all entitled to unlimited growth and prosperity all the time????
件名: Re: Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place
Czuch: Oh I was listening and those who were talking wanted him to fail. I think they are miffed at him being a democrat and President. Bad losing basically
Well we over here have had our Government save banks rather then let them go under and put peoples savings at risk. Certain other steps are being done, to prevent 'this' happening again. It's cost the UK people billions, but the alternative..... ....
And what is wrong at making savings and creating jobs? There are areas you full well know that are inefficient... Is sorting them out wrong, as in the long term the investment will pay off.
I look at it like a doctor faced by a patient who has an illness that has to run it's natural course as no cure is available. He/She does his/her best to make the patient as comfortable and pain free as possible, care and concern are part of the oath they took.
The voters thought your President's ideas were better. And as commentated by those who watched him speak..... They felt hope at last.
件名: Re: Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place
(V): Oh I was listening and those who were talking wanted him to fail. I think they are miffed at him being a democrat and President. Bad losing basically
Are you kidding me????? Where have you been the last 8 years, in a cave????? I can find you 10 news stations for every fox news that did exactly what you are saying against Bush!!!!! I never remember you calling them bad losers?????
件名: Re: Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place
Czuch: I agree Czuch, i didn't care that much for Bush, but He was our president, what happened over the last 8 was disgusting.move on.org and that slob michael moore ran a disgusting smear campaign from day one.I'll say again, I rather would have had Clinton,but I'm glad we had Bush rather than that blowhard Gore and that stooge kerry
件名: Re: Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place
Tuesday: yes, because my family's future depends on it, but i will blast him for every stutter , every time he misspeaks,every bad bill, and wasteful spending, and any mistake... its only fair
件名: Re: Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place
Czuch: are you purposely trying to humiliate him, denigrate him, take sound bites out of context, make insulting movies of him like they did for the last 8 years??? gee why not??
件名: Re: Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place
Tuesday: If hollywood is where you look for education and or advice on national or world events, then good luck, american idol will be telling you how to vote
件名: Re: Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place
Tuesday: it's entertainment, not something to educate...
Same for Gores an inconvenient truth???? That won all kinds of movie awards... glad you think its all just entertainment, and not education.... but why did they make all the school kids watch for then???
件名: Re: Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place
Charles Martel: We all knew this would happen.... when you bash bush its because he is an idiot who deserves it... when you bash Bam..... at least everything being said against Bam is true, nobody has lied or misrepresented or taken out of context anything.... its simple disagreement in views and ideas...
件名: Re: Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place
Czuch: No. I'd say it was more Rupert Murdoch who made Fox news the way it is now. He is well known for creating conservative media with a bias that can leave details out, or play with reality.
件名: Re: Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place
(V):
Are you saying that only the rich should have babies? Are you proposing a somewhat big brother approach to having families where only approved parents can have children and any poor people who have babies are to be prosecuted and jailed?
Not even close to what I am saying..... Its a personal choice, but dont complain to me or ask me to help you raise the kids you had that you cannot afford to have either! Most minimum wage jobs are for the young and undereducated, stepping stone jobs that arent meant as life long careers for anyone, they arent meant for married couples with a hand full of kids.
件名: Re: Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place
(V): You are talking like you expect a perfect world... It ain't.
Yup, we happen to agree.... it aint a perfect world, our economy will sometimes slump, some people will lose jobs some will lack opportunity, sometimes the markets will rise, sometimes people will get a good job... its an ebb and flow.... like everything.... the economy will rise and fall, the earths climate will constantly change, there is nothing wrong with any of that.... especially nothing that needs us to go into a panic spending spree, liberals are all about panic and scare tactics, they paint everything gloom and doom and then tell us they can take care of it all, just give them a chance and they will save us from ourselves!
件名: Re: Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place
Czuch: Yes, but if like what has happened now, this slump occurred from people basically relying on a economic 'boom' to go on for ever based on crazy credit and greedy and as descibed "crazy mistakes that you'd only expect from someone who doesn't know what they are doing"... Boom periods based on credit never last. It's an economic fact. The Bubble will burst and not nicely.
This is not doom and Gloom, this is reality. Fact.
But the question is, knowing that such systems have been used in the past and gone "POP", why on earth are were they still allowed to be used?
Thatcher used the "BOOM and BUST" economic system and it went BANG, so now aka Titanic style (lifeboats) rules are being put in place. People are being called to account for their actions.
It's not your people's fault, they are not to blame.. They are taught the American way and fell in love with a dream that ended in a nightmare by marketing pressure, and certain amount of 'tradition' and peer pressure.
The democrats can't save you. you have to save you by believing in your country again, and rediscovering some wisdom over what is allowed and some learning over 'bad mistakes' by bosses of big corporations. Not poor people, but rich men and women.
件名: Re: Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place
(V): Boom periods based on credit never last. It's an economic fact. The Bubble will burst and not nicely.
...and it is my opinion, and others as well, like some you see on fox news, that this new spending spree is only temporary as well, and it too will never last!
Its like giving a kid an allowance... they have money to spend, go to the mall or the movies or a bite to eat, but that $20 bucks only goes so far, and they come back next week looking for another $20.... the reality is that you arent creating any wealth when you give your kid an allowance, you give them something temporary, nothing different when the government pumps a bunch of money at us, its a temporary fix.... and there is absolutely no evidence that we wont get to the same place in a few years without any type of stimulus?
Economists are still today debating weather or not the new deal actually made us take longer to come out of the great depression, than doing nothing at all would have!
件名: Re: Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place
(V): It's not intended to last forever, just long enough to help your country recover.
Thats fine.... just that many think we will recover in a couple or few years anyway, without the government huge spending, some disagree, Bam was elected, so we do it his way, doesnt mean we have to think it is the right decision, all we can do is sit back and see what happens now.
件名: Re: Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place
Czuch: Exactly... sit back and see if he's got it right. If he doesn't... then he won't get re-elected. If he really mucks up. He'll be impeached or resign.
件名: Re: Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place
(V): You say: Are you saying that only the rich should have babies? Are you proposing a somewhat big brother approach to having families where only approved parents can have children and any poor people who have babies are to be prosecuted and jailed?
People have to have a license to Fish or Hunt in the USA. (Not sure if it is that way over there) Yet anyone can have a baby! I DO think that people should have to prove they can bring up a child properly before having one! Of course, that is absolutely impossible. And who would be the person who makes this decision? And my solution to not allowing babies until after this proof, would be controversial as well. lol. Some sort of mandatory birth control until you DO get a license to have a child. Before you blast me for that, I know that would be a very bad solution. It has it's merits though.
件名: Re: Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place
rod03801: Whats wrong with a license to have a baby? At least a course, and a test, something to make them think a bit first, it might not be perfect, but I bet it would help prevent some from having one that they cant take care or adequately?
件名: Re: Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place
rod03801: Sorry, but with the way certain services designed to stop bad bad parents have .. um.. mucked up, such a system just could not work. There is no way you can be sure of what the future may bring to the chosen ones, how an incident may cause one to go bananas.
And how are you going to persuade millions of people to under go temporary 'sterilisation', plus the factor that you are limiting the gene pool is dangerous. Plus the revolts would cause civil war in America, even within republican groups due to certain bits of the Bible celebrating what marriage is about.
....... More money to child protection services and better training would be better. Better education at school over birth control and STI's, free condoms to teenagers, plus other plans to show the FACTS about unprotected sex in adverts would be better.
The Chinese have a system based on fines for families that have over 2 (I think) children. But that is over population control, to stop the Chinese people out growing their country.
件名: Re: Well what the Huck are two people who can only obtain minimum wage jobs doing having kids in the first place
Czuch: Um no, your gun policy is a state thing, otherwise how can a bank get away with giving out free rifles for opening an account!!
No... I have realism. I've seen how loopholes can be used and how serial killers and child abusers (from watching stuff that probes such people) on how a face can be put on. I've also seen people who've past their driving test drink drive, or drive so dangerously that they kill or maim others.
A driving test pass means you can drive, it's no guarantee you'll be a good driver though.
The Usurper: There is the old saying "Life begins at 40"... why... because of an old problem that the Jewish faith found that a certain amount of living is required before certain aspects of Judaism can be taught. For to try to teach before hand would be like planting a seed in barren soil.