Artful Dodger: I'm extremely serious. Any American who has supported the unjust & unprovoked invasion of Iraq has therefore no cause for complaint if this unconscionable action comes back to bite them on their own soil. And to the extent that we are all Americans, responsible for the actions of our government, even those who did not support the invasion must nevertheless bear some responsibility for it. After all, their tax dollars helped to fund it. In a perfectly just world, we would pay at home for the lives we have taken abroad. And in the long run, this will indeed be the case. As for the Iraqi citizens, they have the right of reciprocity, just not the power to act upon it. If bringing the fight to American soil would secure their independence at home against a brutal tyrant, they have every moral right to so defend themselves. But naturally, America makes a point of attacking those countries which can't really defend themselves. They might successfully repel the monster after great & terrible loss, but to return the favor is beyond the scope of their ability.

The Usurper:I don't care about any of that.  It's an opnion that you hold, NOT a fact.  I teach this stuff in school and know what I'm talking about.  You are simply wrong to call it a fact.  It's no more a fact than saying Vanilla ice cream is the best tasting ice cream on earth. 

Furthermore, saying it was unjust is also an opinion NOT a fact.  I don't mind you holding the opinion, but if you call it a fact, that tells me you really don't know what you are talking about.

It's also an OPINION that it was unprovoked.  It's a disputable point and since there is a legal definition and an agent definition, you'd have to be more specific. 

It's also an opinion to say that the war was illegal.  Again, I don't mind you holding to this opinion, but you can't call it a fact.  If you do, you are simply wrong and you DON"T know what you are talking about.  There's a difference between opinion and fact and it's pretty basic. 

Artful Dodger: Yes he can say it is fact, by international law it was illegal. The only reason why we in the UK supported the USA in the Iraqi war was due to false information being presented to the Houses of Parliament and our MP's before they voted on this war. The information used has been shown beyond a shadow of doubt as being false.

And I think Tony Blair and his cabinet felt sorry for the USA, and wanted to protect you somewhat in your military not going in alone. And seeing as the UK military are more respected then your USA military, it was thought we'd be able calm things down after the invasion more quickly.

(V): yeah they looked real respectful getting captured by the Iranian boats

Charles Martel: Yep, but that is all for show. Likewise the USA using armed predators in a country that has not given permission for action to take place (which further talks would have probably resolved) is really respectful. *cough*

(V): The information used has been shown beyond a shadow of doubt as being false.

Something being proven as wrong in hind sight is a far cry from something known to be wrong and given anyway!!!

Saddam had every opportunity to show evidence that he had destroyed and stopped making the WMD that we know he had at one time, since he used them, he refused to give that evidence or proof, and we went on the best info we had at the time.... problem for him, he was used to the toothless UN, whoops!

Czuch: The UN is toothless!!! Have you missed the Yugoslav war that involved ethnic cleansing by some parties involved? 39,000 soldiers from many countries.

It was news in Europe, didn't it reach the states?

(V): Yes, The U.N. showed its teeth at Sbrenica!!

sadly though, their teeth were yellow

Charles Martel: Compared to what the USA did in Iraq with telling the people to revolt after GWI against Saddam and then leaving them helpless and without support, the Small Dutch force's teeth are like the Osmond's

If this is going to be a 'points' match.

The Usurper: Any American who has supported the unjust & unprovoked invasion of Iraq has therefore no cause for complaint if this unconscionable action comes back to bite them on their own soil.

I cant believe we are back here..... if I were as oppressed and hopeless as the common Iraqi was, I would not only welcome, but pray for what we did in Iraq to "come back to bite me" on my own soil!!!!!!!

Czuch: What about the governments put in power by support from the USA that oppress their people today. After all, Saddam was a tool for the USA at one point in regards to their war with Iran.

Is the USA gonna fix all it's mistakes regarding oppressive governments?

(V): Is the USA gonna fix all it's mistakes regarding oppressive governments?

Give us the time and support, and we will....