So what is the problem again? Is the true problem is that you don't want to play slow players? Or is the problem still that you don't want to play fast games because you might time out because of unforseen events?

I think not wanting to play slow players is the biggest issue. Some unknown circumstance that forces a timeout is not that likely.

My biggest problem is with tournaments that finish except for one player. Then it sits stagnant for ages waiting for that player to finish the games. Tournaments are fun when they move quickly and you can maintain the context, and eventually get a winner.

On tournaments, can I suggest a 6 games match at the end instead of 3 wins. 3 wins can last forever with a game that draws a lot.

Both! As it is, if something happens I would just time out and no extra time would be given. The less time from 7 days given, the less response you get in waiting games and tournaments due to similar caution by other players, not because most players only like 1 move per week. Already I am thinking of doing a little research before accepting games or tournaments. In 5-10 minutes I could get an idea about an opponent, of course software could calculate many players in seconds!

Its BOTH BBW...

We don't want to play slow players, so we play low time limit games, but we dont want to play one, two or three day limits too often, because of unforeseen problems.

The solution is for two 'fast' players to play each other, but use a longer time limit game. I play many people who I know polay often. I don't mind playing them a 7 day game, as often we will finish several games in one sitting anyway. But if it was someone I am not familiar with, a 7 day game could drag out for months.

Exactly!!!!!!

I understand what you are all saying, but it is still my opinion to solve the problem of playing slow players is to play in faster games. To solve the problem of "unforseen problems", an "emergincy vacation" would solve that.

A suggestion which I'm surprised has not happen before - Why not make a fellowship dedicated to "fast players" - you could have your own tournaments, and invite only the fast players you know of. NOTE: I would strongly discourage it becoming a place to be anti-slow players (listing slow players, etc..), and a pro-fast players - list fast players and such.

What 'good' does it do anybody to have a list of players by who made the most moves in a day? Why not have some sort of agreed apon rating (whatever calculations it turns out to be) that rates players by how 'fast' they move?

The only 'downside' I can see is that players like BBW do not want to be listed with a speed of play rating, for whatever 'privacy' issues they have.

IMCK - I swear you just like to cause trouble and don't read a darn thing! (Same old IMCK)

You are the only one here thinking I don't want to be listed for some privacy issue. If that was the reason, I would be the first to post it!

ewwwww.... I hit a nerve......

Well, your only reason I have read so far, is that it would be too much for the server to calculate a speed rating. Ithink you made that one up, and would like to hear the facts which support that thesis. It wouldnt have to be an ongoing process, that is updated evry minute. A rating could be calculated once a week or whatever, just to give us a generalized Idea about who we may want to play or not play against.

You are hell bent on having slow players play people they dont really want to play, and 'fix' the problem after the fact. Yet everyone else posting on the subject so far, thinks it would be better to solve the problem before getting involved in the game.

What exactly are your objections other than an unfounded beleif that it will be too taxing on the servers?

Somewhere in here there's a solution, we can leave it to Fencer to decide. Until then I will devise the quickest "manual" way to assess expediency, or lack thereof, on the part of potential opponents.

BTW: IYT recognized the problem and put forth a "solution" (albeit a lame one).

IMCK - There is your porblem - You keep thinking I'm saying "DON'T DO THE RATING THING" - I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that I believe there are better solutions then to calculate ratings. Everything else is just made up in the mind of yours - you know, the one where you know little detail about people but still try to catigorize everyone in to catigories.

yes, you hit a nerve - it is the same thing that you do on Uncensored Debate. You know a few datails, and then believe you know everything about me and what I think.

You said you were against the rating sysdtem because it would be too taxing on the servers.

Any further comment?

And again, you are the only person who thinks it is better to keep the problem and try to fix it afterwards, than to simply avoid the problem in the first place.

A simple, 'you are wrong about my motivation, IMCK', would have been more convincing, than your hypersensative diotribe...

2 or 3 posters certainly doesn't indicate what a majority think...

Personally, I believe MOST aren't anywhere near as concerned about this as a few are..
(That isn't to say that this concern of those few, isn't important... it IS... ) .. but to assume that in a period of a few hours that 3 or 4 people having a conversation about this topic where 3 of the people appear to disagree with the 1 other, in NO way relflects the views of the whole site. It would be kind of silly to assume this..

well i cant see what all the fuss is about , its a turn based site . period . games are finished when they are finished ,if you dont want to play slow players .....dont play in tournaments ,play private games or something where you cant be against slow players

I'm another person who thinks this is an outrageous amount of fuss over a non-existent problem. If people want to play quickly but choose games with seven day time limits ? ? ? ? For sure I dont want to have to consider what the concealed time limit of a game or an event is because a few members have a morbid fear of being unable to access the site. The concept of a time limit is dead simple and there's nothing wrong with it. The only meddling that appeals to me is the option to remove weekends from tournaments.

agreed , weekends removed is a good idea ;)

It would be nice to be able to personally arrange one's completed games. For example if they could be grouped by colour, opening, etc it would make them much easier to peruse.

Its not just a morbid idea of not being able to access the site. I've tried posting games for 2-3 days and nobody accepts them! Yet many post 7 day games with the desire to have the games move quicker than one move per week. Why is this? As the majority has not spoken on this issue, or any other issue for that matter, it cannot be assumed that only a few feel this way. Other sites have tried to accomidate this situation which lends credence to the request that this site at least consider it. This is a turn based site, however what is one to do if they prefer one or more moves a day but sometimes cannot access the site for a day or two with no prior warning? Just time out on games? I believe it is Fencer's desire to have the best site available! Certainly this request is not the most trivial to appear on this board!

p.s. Go to the BK discussion board and look at the recent post from Bernice! Sound familiar?

the feature BBW suggested would work perfectly if for some reason you couldnt get to do your moves and you was about to run out time on one of your games as soon as the timer reached zero you would automatically get another 24 hours added to all your games (provided you have vacation days left) , but this should be for a maximun of say 10 days at any one time .

It's a partial solution in that I don't know how many people would start accepting 1 day games? As it is, of course, someone who wants to make games last for months can get all the games they want, regardless of how their opponent feels about it. All some (maybe many, maybe even most) of us want is a way to determine like-minded players when it comes to expediency!! If you don't need this, fine, ignore it!

p.s. I even tried going to players' games and clicking on their moves hoping to see the time between moves, no such luck.

I agree Rogue... What do you people have against those of us wishing to play faster games from having a tool that allows us to choose opponents who will accomplish this desire???

You already have the option to play games as long as you desire... nobody wants to take that away from you. All we want is the ability to play games with faster players, without the threat of accidently timing out.

We can coexist, we are not hindering your ability to do anything on this site. If it doesn't affect you, why are you so against it?

Maybe, like BBW said, someone should start a fellowship.... That sounds simple enough. Maybe we could put a monikker after our names like IMupChucKingC, C = speed of light, thats pretty fast! :)~

Or another option could be to have available the ability to start a new game with a short time limit, but no time out? I am thinking out loud right now, and I know it sounds silly, but the game could be posted with a "suggested" 1 day move, for example, but not time out.....

Anywho, I like the fellowship idea, but that excludes all the pawns, but we could have all the pawns put a 'C' after their name or something if they want to be included.

If timing out worries you so much, play unrated games.

Ug, I can see what you are bgetting at, but really... If it were 'ratings' I was worried about, would play unrated games

Its not losing the rating that so much worries me when I time out...it is losing a fun game where many moves have already been completed, and having it wasted for no good reason.

So your suggestion really is irrelevant and not a viable solution, but thanks!

Any other great ideas?

Form a fellowship for players who'll forgive each other if one times out, then should such a case arise ask Fencer to re-instate the game.

IMupChucKingC , do what other people do , play at more than one site ....sorted .
i am a quick player , but i dont see the need for percentages and all that rubbish , you could always play real time games ,, speaking of which was said to be coming here at one time but who knows ;)

Last night there were several games of chess at one day per move in the waiting games, there's only one left.

i know it is probably a bit late as it is in the can so to speak...BUT...

I have a tournament running that only had 14 players and it is still running...this tournament started to the best of my knowledge last august2003.

it is battleboats and it is one of the most boring games i have ever played BUT to those that like/love it I can understand:)

My request/query is..... would it be possible to put a TOTAL TIME on a tournament?...after X amount of days those that are in front go on...those that wont play regular are out?

It makes me wonder abut LindaJ fundraising tournament...how long do you think this will run for?...what happens in 2 years when it is still going and people are moved on/departed/bored...etc. if 14 players can go for 12 months...Linda's 100+ could be here in the year 2010 LOLOL...please understand im being facetious here but also asking legit Q

I am playing "someone" at the moment who insists on playing at the last minute:(
she is know for this and i have had a few players say they will not play in tourneys where she plays.

I asked her if she could improve her move rate and was promptly told...it has just taken you 4 days to move...i replied it was because i wanted to see what was happening in and inter-fellowship with other players....she was leaving ALL games to the last minute so I couldnt let my team down by forfeiting the game with her....I told her this and im still waiting for her to get back....but I will probably have to wait for a week or two until she decides to move :(...

I know it is a turn based site but...idiots will spoil it for others no matter what....hence the GAME time...not TURN TIME.....does this make sense??
This would apply to Tournaments only, and inter fellowship tourney in particular :)

What if a person is playing slowly but winning all their games? Tournament creators choose the time limits so it is completely nonsense for those same creators to claim that anyone is moving too slowly.

I've completed 1196 games, apart from some tournaments these have nearly all been at 4 or less days/move, in only 1 out of all those games did an opponent time out and request the game be re-instated (a 3 day/move game), this is not even worth considering a problem it's so entirely insignificant.

I already do play at 4 different sites. But I don't know how that helps in the least bit in playing a fast game??????

I am not interested in playing one move in 800 games a day. I (and others) want to play complete games in shorter times.

A real time site would work, except I am using webtv, which is not compatable with those sites. I do play 'real' time games on here with some people. (start to finish in one sitting) Maybe a fellowship with interested players like this would help us find each other, when we are interested in a really fast game.

Bernice makes a great point about tournaments.... How long is Lindas 100 person backgammon going to last????? Well past my subscription time, for sure, and possibly many years!!!!!!! Some people may be content playing one move in 800 different games. I personally dont see the satisfaction in that, but hey, its their life. I personally get more out of playing fewer games in a faster period of time. Just trying to figure out how to avoid the previous.

Bernice..... why dont you set us up a fellowship, and we can discuss it there?

The number of people who both want to play quickly and suffer a fear of timing out must be pretty small, get together in a fellowship. It could be called "quick games with slow time limits" or similar.

i was going to do a fast fellowship with one tow or three day limits ,but i dont think there would be enough interest ;)

The one problem with a fellowship is that pawns are excluded.

hen I first came to this site as a pawn, I was interested in learning how to play Reversi. The best way to learn was to play games as quick as possible, so could actually see the results of my actions, and make adjustments. If I had started 800 Reversi games with 30 day limits, I would still have not finished any games, and would basically be playing terrible in 800 games at once, instead of really learning anything.

i think you could have only started 20 ,30 day limits not 800

You say that in jest, I know, but it really isn't funny. That is exactly what we are saying. Why does it pain you so much just to stay out of it if it doesn't relate to you in any way?

We basically want to play games where we can remember all the moves by the time the game is finished, and hopefully be able to learn from our successes and mistakes. A two year game does not do much for my learning curve.

We DO NOT expect to play all of our games in break neck speed. And we don't want to be forced into having to move every day or two ourselves all the time. We want the occassional luxury of a 3 or 7 day game, without having to play someone who will only move at the last possible day for every single turn!!!! Why is that so wrong?????

I think, contrary to what you are claiming, that the MAJORITY of people on this site want to play this way, not a minority.

The problem really is, especially in tournaments, that it is the MINORITY that can ruin it for everyone else. Since a tournament only moves as fast as its slowest players.

We already have the ability to start games with only players of a certain bkr, or even filter people by there level of membership, or to limit them to only being able to accept one challenge.... why not be able to start a new game with certain "speed of play" ratings as well???? It really is no different than these other filters already in use!

Go to the ratings list for the game of your choice, select a suitably strong player, check how many games they're playing, at what time limits and when they were last online. If they seem okay for you send a challenge with a note explaining your feeling about time management. Would be a lot simpler than to keep bringing this nonsense up as if everyone else should comply.

In chess there is what is called the "thread" of the game. Some people play many games over long periods of time and re-assess each position whenever they get back to the game. Many others, such as myself, prefer just a few games that move at a pace where you can remember what your plans are and what tactically is happening on the board. An inicator of like minded opponents would greatly assist us in getting the kinds of games WE want. If it's not the kind of games YOU want, then no harm-no foul. But the idea of those not interested in this feature dictating to those of us who are what form the feature, or lack thereof, should be is a little annoying. There are feature requests that others want that don't interest me but I don't stomp all over them or redefine what their desired solutions should be. If you don't mind games that last for months then more power to you. You already have what you want without joining some fellowship.

Seeing how there is such objections to a feature that would really help some of us and hinder nobody I shall now drop the subject.

ughaibu: Thanks for the heads up on the 1 day game but the player is rated almost 1,000 points lower.

That solution sounds simple to you???
Is that how you start all of your games? By making personal invitations? What, am I suppossed to go through the list of all the thousands of players and their profiles just to find a compatable player????

NO!

Starting an open game makes way more sense. We just want one more filter option when starting a new open game...... You have not yet told me what is so bad about that request???

Answer this question Ug, or anyone.....

What is the substantive difference between an 'ability' rating and a 'speed of play' rating?

If this site didn't use bkr, imagine the fits you would have trying to find a chess game with someone of your caliber. Imagine getting stuck playing with someone like me all the time, because you didn't have the ability to filter you games with opponents of a certain bkr level???You would be complaining relentlessly, and you would not appreciate me telling you to go through everyones profiles and look at their past games to determine for yourself how good they are at chess, and whether they are worthy of a game!

a button at the top of the page for when in a sad mood with a picture of a smiley face on it ,when pressed it will laugh ,
another button could send an electric shock to the opponent to wake them up and remind them to do thier move ;)

b,t,w only a small electric shock , not enough to harm anyone or thier pets .

p.s. The solution to players who prefer make "moves per day" rather than take "days per move" could be as simple as allowing us to pick a different color for our name! ...or should I say colour? :-)

*ducks for cover*

i dont want pink

LOL I like the idea of smilies to indicate what mood we're in! It might save us being snapped at by a person who isn't in a good mood!

****

Serious feature request...

On fellowship boards, on the news on the main page, I'd like to have the option for posts to remain there until I post new news, even if its a few months. As it is now there is a 14 day(?) maximum, and after that I have to re-post.

who says i wasnt serious about smilies lol
yes i think the news page should have a lot longer limit like 90, or even 180 days

What do you want to play? Just send me your challenges and I'll play fast, okay?

Here is the a real feature request, which addresses some of my concerns:

Can we please have the option of playing games with a time limit on each player for the whole game (rather than per move) ? Can this be an option for tournaments as well ? This way we can be assured that the whole tournament round would finish in, say, 2 months or whatever you choose as a limit.

I too am shocked to discover that some tournaments I completed my games in about a year ago are still going. I may suddenly find myself appearing in the second round with little memory of even having played the first round.

Harley, I hardly think that you need to use the feature request board to get anything you want...;)~