Ferris Bueller: This is what gets me.. it is endorsed. Fox knows that there is a small percentage of right wing psychopaths (just as Art says there is a loony left) who do not think. They've been conditioned into believing an ideology that is based on hate, fear and anger at anything that is perceived to threaten this ideology, and use the likes of Beck to say "I'm right.. this TV star says so, it's ok, to hate the Muslim, it's ok to hate liberals.. Beck says so"..

As such Fox cannot say they do not know there will be incidents, just as much as a 'rogue Muslim cleric cannot say he didn't know his words of hatred for the west will not inspire some psychotic person who's 'idol' is Islam and is too stupid to know right from wrong goes and tries to kill in the name of Allah.

We were lucky over here.. some white supremacist got drunk before bombing his targets and got stopped by the police and searched. He had two bombs on him he made in the bedroom he lived in at his parents house.

Artful Dodger: So why are you against the markets being opened up and more competition?

And as such, from what I have read.. it seems alot of lobbying is going on, and from the last time (in Clinton's presidency) healthcare reform was tried.... the lobbyists worked overtime to stop it and were paying off politicians (especially on the Republican side by the news) left right and centre.

Yes.. there is corruption in government and in business.

"It cost him nothing. He had some costs, but they were minimal."

It didn't cost him nothing then.

"And there are some health care companies that are not for profit. "

So was Help the aged back when it got exposed for swallowing about 75% of all the money donated in admin costs...

Artful Dodger: Then part of the problem is private intrusion on the government.

Such is illegal openly over here and those caught lose their heads.

And until the two are separate there is no way you can say it's all the governments fault. Do you have notes, video's of all the meetings with lobbyists?

In the end it's all just opinion. But by UK standards.. it's illegal.

Artful Dodger: lobbyists.

Artful Dodger: Help the aged was.

And that does not prove anything. Your health companies have policies to cancel policies over silly reasons.... "you can't have chemo as you didn't tell us you had gallstones"....

... "I didn't know I had gallstones".

Prove to me that the private sector can be trusted to run social programs without fraud.. "death panels" and overcharging through monopolies.

Artful Dodger: You said..

"Nothing the government ever does with regard to social programs works. They all go bankrupt."

I said... "Sure.. compared to whom? Show me figures that prove corruption in big companies is better than government... don't forget Madoff, the off shore accounts and other known fraud in your compilation."

You are stating nothing the government does works? or just the bits you don't like..

I heard you can't cuddle a bag of money and get love!!

Artful Dodger: I was.. asking you to use ya fingers.. or is it 'liberals' that are the only ones to prove something??

Artful Dodger: Do I have to resort to pantomime talk??

Artful Dodger: Yeah... I have a night off searching and ask a republican do stand up and prove a point and nothing.

stonewalling!!

Artful Dodger: zzzzzzzzzz

Artful Dodger: Private and public.. ya know my thread.

Still no figures.

1000's of building companies here cheating everyone for many many years..

The possibility of no fraud in the private sector is zilch.

Prove me wrong!!

Artful Dodger: Why is the government a worse option? Fraud and incompetence are everywhere.

I would like to see some figures comparing the fraud and incompetence in business against that in the public sector.

Back up your claim. It's your turn to prove things.. I'm always getting the job!!

Artful Dodger: No. your statement was that government is worse than private in fraud and overpricing.

prove it.

*burp*

Artful Dodger: Sure.. compared to whom? Show me figures that prove corruption in big companies is better than government... don't forget Madoff, the off shore accounts and other known fraud in your compilation

Take your time.. I'm having a cold one.

Artful Dodger: Here we go back into fraud, money, big, bankrupt, blah...

Do you enjoy paying into a scheme that is based on profit? Big, money, fraud, bankrupt, blah.

Artful Dodger: What is radical about having a competitive health care system with no monopolies? What is conservative values.. you've yet to explain that.. they sure do seem to be different from our Conservative Party.

Artful Dodger: Awwwwwwwwww don't worry, Fox ads are filling the slots... If you are lucky, maybe you'll get an uninterrupted show.

http://www.colorofchange.org/beck/

Join the boycott

Artful Dodger: By saying America wasn't ready for a black president.. you kinda imply that people in the USA choose by image rather than who someone is.

YOUR COUNTRY WAS BUILT ON THE RIGHT FOR ANYONE WHO IS OF THE USA TO BE PRESIDENT, no matter sex, colour, race or religion.

OH boy Who is playing the race game here?? I see head games that don't work.

Artful Dodger: And the point is.. you are saying. That a company does not have the right of freedom? That they cannot say when their products are advertised if they find a particular show distasteful?

The law is on their side, the right to choose.

Artful Dodger: And? What do you mean by that?

Artful Dodger: So? Is "Nielsen Media Research."??

Btw.. advertisers on this side of the pond do not want their products associated with Beck.

As you said, they are moving their money.

Perhaps every MSNBC viewer was in the audience for Tuesday's inauguration.

That's probably the most favorable explanation for the cable network's dismal showing in the inauguration ratings, where it came in last among all networks and trailed rivals CNN and Fox News in every daypart.

For the critical hours of 11AM to 2PM, MSNBC averaged just 2.6 million total viewers, 69 percent lower than Fox News (4.4 million) and 165 percent lower than CNN (6.9 million), according to Nielsen Media Research.

For the total day (6AM-3AM), MSNBC averaged 1.7 million total viewers, compared to CNN's 4.0 million and Fox News' 2.5 million. Things weren't any better in the Adults 25-54 demographic, either, where MSNBC usually performs well. CNN won the demo with an average 1.6 million to Fox News' 750,000 and MSNBC's 610,000.


Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/21/msnbc-network-that-opened_n_159860.html

Artful Dodger: And?

Artful Dodger: As you said about Beck "On Beck, who cares" .. "... was given the Key to the City where he grew up".

No.. they are not in the majority. Over here they would be arrested.

BTW... "But blacks need to get over it." ..... it's a bit hard when there are those alive who lived through it, and in some areas still do.

then is it still true that advertisers are pulling out of having their ads during his program slot?

http://www.nowpublic.com/tech-biz/glenn-beck-advertising-boycott-has-right-wing-bloggers-worried

".....So, what is it that Glenn Beck - and the other presenters on Fox, doing so wrong that advertisers are pulling their adverts hence the funding for that show?

Well - advertisers do a little more research than TV presenters and their producers. And it is a widely known fact that the American electorate voted for one B H Obama - and the manifesto that he brought forward.

I can envisage more advertisers looking at what the Murdoch owned channel is doing. And we all know how Murdoch feels about advertising revenue - he wants it and a lot of it. If the advertisers keep pulling out of the Beck show - who will be next? Fox have to start looking at being a bit more responsible - because, God forbid, someone goes stir crazy because of the incitement on their programming - I can see advertisers pulling away from them 100%.

Free speech is admirable in any society, yet with that right comes a great responsibility. "

rod03801: Carter was OTT, but he had a point, a degree of old thinking is still applicable just as it is here in the UK (as we see in the BNP) ... there is still a small minority in the USA that is racist and as such the old lines are still perpetuated.

The movement to total equality is still young, discrimination of various sorts still exists and will do for a time. Whether it be regarding race, sex, religion, sexuality, ideology, etc. And then there is the Politically correct crowd, some ideas of theirs going OTT...

... I read one article last night from a guy interviewing a politician that described Obama as "uppity", though the politician was too young to know consciously (or so was said) what it meant from days before, it is still in use.

As to no-one wants to be called a racist... then those who are making pics of your President looking like a monkey, or adding Obama's head to that of some African tribes man should stop.

http://www.appletreeblog.com/wp-content/2009/05/obama-monkey-1.jpg
http://binside.typepad.com/binside_tv/images/2008/05/14/obama_monkey_tshirt.jpg
http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/uploads/obama-monkey.jpg

Or from a certain link (I cannot post it due to severe content problems)

.......................................
Jesus or Satan?
White or Black?
Good or Bad?
American or anti-American?
Peacemaker or Terrorist?
Warrior or worrier?
Soldier or Socialist?
Angel or Devil?
White House or Rule of Darkness?
McCain or Hussein?

Folks, wake up! Can’t you see what Obama’s plans for America are? As soon as he is in office we will slaughter Americans and ship our body parts to his family in Africa for voodoo magic purposes! That is how they do it! My God, don’t let him become president!!!

This is a great campaign idea to help our fellow white-folk to understand why it’s actually racist to vote for Obama. I’d like to thank some smart Republicans in Clarendon County, Virginia for helping to educate misguided white folk who might betray their race.

*********************************************

This is what Carter was against.

From the UK guardian paper..

"The blame for this could be attributed to increased social and geographical mobility, more individualism or even New Labour ignoring the concerns of the white working classes. But oh no, ethnic minorities and multiculturalism are to blame, apparently. It is they who are deliberately trying to destroy public services, we are told.

In this respect, the rightwing papers are worse, paying lip service to the sensationalist idea that white culture is under attack in order to sell papers, rather than campaigning for anything useful. They know it is all too easy, yet completely futile, to blame minority communities, yet they do it anyway. They fuel frustration and resentment by finding easy scapegoats without exploring the underlying issues. But we (should) know all this anyway."

Artful Dodger: Explain it... can you?

Artful Dodger: What is "white culture", what is "conservative values"???

As such white people are made up from a huge many of cultural backgrounds. I find the phrase "white culture" is a fallacy.

Vikings: I did, as such from the definitions I found..

What is the problem?

Yes.. Carter was wrong, just as well as right wing adverts portraying voting for the Democrats is voting for terrorists to be able to nuke the USA.

Vikings: "I don't care what race is breaking in I just don't want to be stolen from"...

Ok.. but why then come across as it's all the illegal immigrants fault, as Beck tries to make out?

That is deemed as racism over here.

It's like me saying that since the KKK was banned at the time the NRA was formed that all NRA founders were KKK, and that all NRA are KKK by such of their association with the KKK.

And how is the President destroying your children's lives, I find that blaming the 'others' for such is just scaremongering.

GTCharlie: Exactly.. I don't trust a party because they are right or left. They have to earn my trust by their actions.. Words they can use a plenty.. they are good at that

Artful Dodger: Yes they do, but not directly to kill Americans or like terrorists kill, bomb and maim.

"Some illegals are terrorists. Some are outlaws."

Which nationality are terrorists, as for outlaws.. I hasten to comment that many outlaws (if not most) in the USA (of a dangerous nature) are American citizens. To make out that the illegal immigrants in the USA is if not racist certainly playing on people's anger and fear through commonly associated metaphors generated by the press and other figures.

Feeling good by looking down on a particular personage by a general caricaturisation is a dangerous game.

Vikings: Is it, or is it how they are portrayed? Over here we have many trying to enter into the UK from Afghanistan and other countries.. Some are genuine, some are not. Problem is there are many 'business men' quite happy to make promises that they can get in. But as such, the means to detect entry has gotten better and many end up just waiting on the other side of the channel.

Portraying 'illegal' immigrants as being 'bad' is the same as portraying all school children as bad because a few bad apples (which you get in every barrel ) cause trouble. With respect, Beck's only party prospects over here are such as the BNP. He would not be recognised by our Conservative party or endorsed in any shape or form.

He tries to come across as just "anti - pc".. sure there is merit to that, but he goes beyond that as such using 'illegal' as a sign that they are all bad evil people. It is a subtle change, but one that has been employed for years. The nazi's did it with Jews, Stalin did it over capitalism, McCarthy did it with communists, etc, etc.

I ask you.. does this go for the children as well?

Artful Dodger: I'm still waiting to know what the Conservative idea is. I feel like Columbo.. so confused over it all.

Artful Dodger: Is criticising Conservative ideas illegal in the USA, or just a normal part of politics, media and what not?

And ya forget... I ain't American.. saying "offered a slot by MSNBC. " means nothing.. is it a USA conservative metaphor?

Artful Dodger: Awww I just punched Beck's name in youtube I saw what came up.

Beck would be great in a certain out take show over here...

He'd be up there with Maradona

Artful Dodger: Nahhhhhhh...

He wanted people to have hope... not tons of dresses.

Artful Dodger: Palin... as Pesident.... You need to watch "V for Vendetta"

And no... not everyone is a fraud... but such is business that people want to make a profit

Artful Dodger: It's PM here..... had dinner, having a beer.

I'll look through some more am... now it's just fun time.

Artful Dodger: I don't play it that way. McCain I hear had health problems that could have left Palin as Pres... doesn't that make you afraid??

There is fraud everywhere.... Agreed?

Bwild: Actually many (if not most) third world countries have too many guns and totally unregulated in control. There was the famous bout of Iraqi police selling guns to those killing Allied soldiers.. Guns they were given to keep the peace.

(V): Ok. *burp*

Artful Dodger: He is funny, and goes over the edge. The really funny thing is that he gets paid so much to be a real American.

Like Douglas Adams said... "from a time when men were real men, when women were real women.. and small furry creatures from Alpha Centuri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centuri".

Note the over use of the word "real".

Bwild: Politicians kiss babies to make votes.. Also play head games over details that the other is not perfect.

Who is?

Artful Dodger: Yes... hot air flows up.. also warming cold air in the process.

Is this a Zen night??

Gotta get another beer then! *burp*

Artful Dodger: I'll post one.. his point is the small minority (aka the bloke commentating) who like with the film "Dogma" get ... .... over responsive.

Ya moan about the 'liberal fringe.. respect right has a lunatic element as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiLppliFzbs

Artful Dodger: Art...... seriously .. do you think a reply like that ain't gonna be considered anything more than theatrics??

Artful Dodger: go loook Art.

You are making a empty argument. And you know it.