I think either point would be hard to prove (as both require a knowledge of the future of technology that I don't think anyone possesses).

WhiteTower: One way in linear and the other is exponential. From what I've seen of the advance of computers, I'm siding with exponential growth. That's how it's been since the sixties.

ColonelCrockett:Find someone willing to play an e-mail game. there are a few.

tedbarber: I'm in the process of getting some folks together later today on GC live.

Walter Montego: Reinhard was correct!
(Well almost, if he didn't assume that 400 were the years that we developed our Chess opening knowledge. He should say ~100 instead). But correct on what? On his statement that we have to wait around 960·400 years for having the same opening knowledge for all FRC position as we now have for Chess. Because this opening knowledge didn't come from computers but from humans mainly. Of course now that computers play at the same level or above from the very best humans we can learn from their games too. But "can" and "should" is different from "it will" and i mean we CAN learn from their games, so the years that the opening knowledge for all 960 FRC positions will not be 100·960, but less lower, but is any chance that this WILL happen? NO! There are not so much interested people on this to made it possible. So we have to wait for the natural evolution of this which will take the time Reinhard said.
But all these are not important.......

What is important is your wrong statement regarding FRC only:
When the gigs become teras and when understanding how to program these types of games becomes better and more efficiently improved, these games will be just as well mastered as regular Chess is nowadays.

Since now computers have the same strength or more of the top humans at handling Chess positions and since there are no opening books for FRC, the strength of computers at FRC IS the same or above (actually is above because FRC requires more tactics) from the top humans! So computers have already mastered FRC!

About Gothic Chess or CRC i think if there is an inceasing interest in these games, then in 2-3 years AND because these games are highly tactical, computers will be better than humans.......
(Consider this simple example: Gothic Vortex is based on Crafty(An open source engine that is looking with the hubble telescope the very top engines) mainly. And is already a very tough opponent. Consider what will happen if Gothic Chess engines will be based to Fruit or Shredder that are top Chess engines.)

Pythagoras: so you think that humans will be surpassed by computers at Gothic in the next few years?

ColonelCrockett: Sorry for butting in, but if Pythagoras (formerly known as ChessMaster1000) who has defeated Gothic Vortex and other engines in the recent past, says that it will happen, I'm pretty sure he wasn't shooting his own foot ;) But myself, I keep my reservations about this - so it's up to Pythagoras to answer you obviously!

Pythagoras: Why do say Reinhard is correct and then agree with me and say computers are playing better or will be playing better than humans? The computers will have all the plans inside them for their own use. Whether or not humans are able to use what computers will learn about FRC is besides the point. The computer will have what it knows to play, and it doesn't have to show anybody what it knows. A computer can run 24 hours a day studying each of the 960 positions and just keep getting more and more prepared for the next upcoming tournament. Someone could have more than one computer to speed the process along too. I agree with you that there's no way humans will be able to have all that knowledge written out like all the books are written on regular Chess. Fischer Random Chess is something that tournaments between humans should use. It'd be very hard for a human to prepare for all 960 openings aside from using general plans, like developing pieces and not leaving things for the taking. The players would be winging it from the start.

Walter Montego: Therefore:

- Human chess should be "restricted" to FRC/CRC
- Computer chess should be "restricted" to Chess/Gothic Chess

:) Wouldn't that be sweet?...

Walter Montego: A computer can run 24 hours a day studying each of the 960 positions and just keep getting more and more prepared for the next upcoming tournament.

There is something behind that that is very tricky!
Even if we suppose that we let a computer run and play against another computer FRC games, for even 15 years or 50 and then build an opening repertoire from that games, WE SHOULD NOT IN ANY WAY, CONCLUDE THAT THIS OPENING WE HAVE BUILT, IS A DECENT ONE TO PLAY FRC CHESS!

I had to use bold-capitals in that statement because it's a well known fact. The reason that our book that is based on 50 years or 1.000.000.000 games, is not suitable for a strong FRC opening book? Because it is based on the knowledge of the 2 computers they play and any weaknesses these 2 have will be included in the book! Even if we had 10 different computers with 10 different styles (personalities) for 50 years to play, then again we do nothing at all! Zero! Even if we include book learning (there is such an option now for the record) in the computers.
Again because the positional (mainly) weaknesses would be a major factor for being our opening book bad.
And these weaknesses will be exposed if we allow after 50 years the computer to play against a human GM at FRC........
So to build a good FRC book we need to play by both humans AND computers for a very long time AND successive learning by both of them during the process. This last one is very important........

For example such questions occur very often to Backgammon, where the top playing programs have obtained their enormous strength by playing millions of games against itself. Strangely enough this approach works for Backgammon while at Chess fails miserably......

The procedure is simple:
Program a Backgammon engine with some simple rules of knowledge. This engine would be a complete moron at Backgammon. Let it play 10.000 games against itself. Let it learn from its mistakes and then import the knowledge into a new engine. Let this engine play another 10.000 games and repeat the procedure. After many learning stages and about 60.000 games you will have a very strong Backgammon bot. This doesn't work at Chess!

And i say it is odd to reach their enormous strength by playing games against itself because this procedure would seeminly lead as i said to playing engine that would have many weaknesses in some areas. But it doesn't! Actually it does in some technical plays of Backgammon bots, but it's not so significant to prevent them plat at top level. But at Chess it fails completely!

Pythagoras: Maybe the reason is the "complete information" attribute that Backgammon carries? (as discussed in the Backgammon board)

WhiteTower: I don't care if he has experience in the field of AI. Pythagoras can't predict the future.

ColonelCrockett: I bet he knew you were going to say that

Pythagoras: Would you please use commas to seperate the thousands? This ain't French you're typing in.

Walter Montego: In Greece we use periods as thousand separators and commas as decimal points. Is it that important? :)

Settle petals :)

WhiteTower: Is it that important? :)
It is not so important, yet i should have defined what the dot means. Dots or commas are both wrong if we want to follow international standards! Instead just the number as it is or using a single space for each 3 digits from the right is the correct way.......But i write from 4 years old numbers in this way and i guess Walter does the same, so it's not easy to forget it......

Don't forget that computers are terrible at figuring openings for themselves. That's mostly why they're preprogrammed with book knowledge.

dokesa: Have you ever tried SMIRF? It has no opening libraries at all. So it must be very easy for you to beat it in CRC. ;-)

Reinhard.

SMIRF Engine: Not even "preferred" opening moves for the first couple of plies? ;)

WhiteTower: Until now there is not a single move precalculated or stored in SMIRF.

SMIRF Engine: so it makes a different opening move each time it plays?

ColonelCrockett: It is planned to build in a kind of initial randomizer. Actually in the starting stage suggested shown optimal moves are not fixed and often exchanged. So stopping the engine manually could also produce a kind of move distribution. But after the first opponent's moves SMIRF is mostly within a new game line. Playing CRC or Chess960/FRC will generate different games simply by selecting randomly a mostly different starting array.

ColonelCrockett: Why would it make a difference if it made a different move or not? If it always made the same opening move as White it could be that it thinks that is the best move. If it makes different moves on occasion, then I would like to know why it would.

Walter Montego: if the machine made the same opening move every game without an opening library to draw from then the problem is with the game . . . not the program. I was simply asking to satiate my curiosity.

SMIRF Engine: I don't know about the current version of SMIRF, but I remember it starting the games differently when playing it in Janus Chess. And defending differently too. That doesn't prove anything though. What move it selects could be very dependent on how long it searches to make the move, even the very first move of the game. This being so, it could make a different move if he sets it to think 1 hour before moving as compared to one minute or one day. And then there's upgrades. And what happens when the machine view two or more moves as equally best moves for it. It has to pick one of them. Perhaps it has a random factor if its not memorizing its played games. Remember that to his program the start of the game is the same as 20 moves later, it just wings every move.

Walter Montego: The current published version of SMIRF is beta 1.33. Actually a new version is about to be completed supporting then 4 languages Eng/Ger/Fra/Swe. You are right, actually at games with fixed starting arrays like traditional chess, you could vary played openings by stopping the engine's thinking suddenly by hand. I myself use to test the engine by playing CRC, there will be always new situations. Of course the opening behaviour is seriously influenced by the playing version, because mostly the evaluation function or something else will have been slightly changed (and improved as I hope).

SMIRF Engine: Won't it be eventually implemented, after a few thousand games, and only for reasons of avoiding clearly "losing" opening moves? Unless ALL opening moves have no clear losing potential whatsoever :)

There already again is a renewed beta 1.34 engine of SMIRF at
http://www.chessbox.de/Compu/schachsmirf_e.html

SMIRF's GUI now is able to use four languages: Eng/Ger/Fra/Swe

Regards, Reinhard.

Hi variants players,

I am writing this for David Pritchard, who is close to finishing the second edition of his famous book "The Encyclopedia of Chess Variants". He is always looking for good sample games, and when I offered him to make this call on Brainking, he found it was an excellent idea. There are many variants played here and the turn-based type of play makes for better games than blitz.

The present message is a call for "best games" by the top BK players - I have no precise idea about what "top" means, but probably it should be thought as something like having been in the top 5 BKR in the variant played. Best games can be won, but also drawn or lost games. If you are interested that one of your games shows in the Encyclopedia of Chess Variants, just submit to me your one or two best games in each variant. All I need is the game id (or the link to the game, which looks like http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=123456), given either in a PM to me or on that board.

The time delay for this is about one month. After that, David (and me!) will still be interested in seeing your best games, but he will not be able to include them in the book any more.

Thank you by advance for your inputs !

nabla: Hi nabla,

You should definitely try and contact Ed Trice on here. http://brainking.com/en/Profile?u=3629

You can see he has 325 wins, 25 draws, 1 loss (in 8x8 chess) never lost in a chess variant game. He has beaten all of the top players, repeatedly, and often with spectacular sacrifices.
Some of his stuff is published on Chessville.com, like:

http://www.chessville.com/GothicChess/miniatures.htm

http://www.chessville.com/GothicChess/TacticalArtwork.htm

http://www.chessville.com/GothicChess/ComputerWorldChampionships.htm

He is a superb annotator with good writing skills, as you can see.

I am also a National Tournament Director for the Gothic Chess Federation, and
have access to about 5000 games or more. Just let me know how I can help.

Rob C.

ChessCarpenter: Thank you for the links, I will give them to David, and you are right that Ed Trice is a very good candidate to show nice games of his, I should PM him.
BTW, in case anybody was unsure about it, Gothic Chess is eligible for appearance in the ECV although it is patented.

nabla: nabla here are also links to 2 games of mine that I like the best! 1 of them is a rare win vs. Ed Trice in a match that is still on going!

http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=392051
http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=655187

nabla: HEre's a game of Janus Chess that might have something for your friend.
http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=1064884&i=1

The Knights were jumping around for awhile. Then he offered a Bishop on move 21. I didn't take the Bishop on move 21 and opted for the troublesome Pawn. Then the pins started happening, along with threats real or imagined. I never did move the one Bishop and when he took it later in the game I didn't do much about it as the Bishop wasn't needed after that. It had guarded a lot of threats most of the game without ever having been moved. Towards the end he gave up his Janus to stay in the game. I did the same some moves later as he had one last checkmate to get me with if I didn't.

Looking back through the moves and trying to remember why I moved as I did, doesn't seem the same as when I was actually playing the game. If the game is of interest to you or your freind, I can go back through it with more time and perhaps see or remember what was going on.

I know there were threats in that game that made some of the moves look strange at the time they were played. Also, we aren't the strongest Janus Chess players, so it's pretty easy to miss an apparent good move when something complicated and speculative might work. :)

nabla: Hi nabla,

Ed is having problems replying to the messages sent to him here on BrainKing. Here are two ways you can contact him:

email: GothicChessInfo@aol.com

the Gothic Chess discussion board:

http://s13.invisionfree.com/Gothic_Chess_Forum/index.php


You might also want to publish some of our endgame database positions, like the mate in 268 that was solved:

http://www.gothicchess.com/javascript_endings.html


Here is Ed's reply to your post:

JANUS CHESS GAMES

I am including 3 Janus chess games here for your review.
Two are against a very strong FIDE Master from Germany,
a hard fought win, and a draw when down by about 4-5 pawns!
The other game is one where I announced a mate in 27 after
having sacrificed an Archbishop (Janus) + pawn for only a knight.

Starting with 33. i5+!! http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=347378&i=
65

the game becomes spectacular. After I begin weaving the mating net, my
opponent uncorks 37...Jba3+! http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=347378&i=
74
to sacrifice one of his Janus pieces to create counterplay. He continues to sac,
this time with The Exchange 41...Rac8+ 42. Bxc8 Rxc8+
http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=34

7378&i=82 which leads to an even
more stunning combination where I give up a Queen for Rook:

44...Re8+ 45. Qe5!! Rxe5+

http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=347378&

i=89

The resulting ending is 2 Rooks + 3 unconnected pawns vs.
Janus + 6 pawns, two pairs of which are connected on the extreme flanks.
The 2 Rooks win this technical ending, very worthy of print.

http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=347378


[Event "Casual Game"]
[Site "BrainKing.com (Prague, Czech Republic)"]
[Date "2004.05.08"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Grim Reaper"]
[Black "Caissus"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rjnbkqbnjr/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/RJN



BKQBNJR w sKQkq - 0 1"]

1. e3 f5 2. Jc3 Jh6 3. Ng3 Nd6 4. h3 e6 5. Bi3 g5 6. Nd3 Bf6 7. Jj3+ Ng6
8. Ne5 Bf7 9. Nxf7 Qxf7 10. d4 i6 11. Bf3 a6 12. Ja5 b6 13. Jb3 c6 14. Ni4 Ji7
15. g4 j5 16. Ng3 f4 17. Nf5 exf5 18. Jxf7+ Kxf7 19. O-O Jc7 20. Be2 Ne4
21. Rd1 fxg4 22. Bxg4 d5 23. Bh2 Jb5 24. Qe1 fxe3 25. Qxe3 Jc4 26. Qe1 Jj6
27. Bg3 Nxg3 28. Qe6+ Kg7 29. fxg3 Jxg3 30. Qxc6 Jgd6 31. Qd7+ Kh6 32. i4 Jdb5
33. i5+ Nxi5 34. Jxi5+ Kxi5 35. Qxh7 Kj4 36. Qh6+ i5 37. Qxf6 Jba3+
38. bxa3 Jxa3+ 39. Ka1 Jxc2+ 40. Kb2 Ja4+ 41. Kc1 Rac8+ 42. Bxc8 Rxc8+
43. Kd2 Jc3+ 44. Ke3 Re8+ 45. Qe5 Rxe5+ 46. dxe5 Jxe5 47. Rd4+ Kj3 48. Rg1 Kxj2
49. Rxg5 Jf7 50. Rdxd5 Jh6 51. Kf2 j4 52. Rxi5 Jf4 53. Rdf5 Jd3+ 54. Kg1 b5
55. Kh2 Je4 56. Rf4 Jd6 57. Ri2+ Kj3 58. Ri4 1-0


=============


"Mely" is a German Fide Master, also a very strong
Janus Chess player. Here is a win against him. If you are
interested, I can annotate portions of this game.


http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=874385


[Event "Casual Game"]
[Site "BrainKing.com (Prague, Czech Republic)"]
[Date "2005.06.15"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Mely"]
[Black "Grim Reaper"]
[Result "0-1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rjnbkqbnjr/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/RJN



BKQBNJR w sKQkq - 0 1"]

1. e4 Jc6 2. Ng3 e6 3. Jh3 Nd6 4. c3 Ng6 5. f3 h6 6. Be3 Be7 7. d4 Bi6
8. Bb3 O-O 9. Jd3 Rd8 10. Qf2 Nc8 11. j4 d5 12. exd5 exd5 13. i3 Re8 14. j5 Bh7
15. Je2 Bg5 16. Bxg5 hxg5 17. Jxg5 f6 18. Jd2 Rxe2+ 19. Ncxe2 Jj6 20. Bc2 Nd6
21. O-O Nc4 22. Jb3 Qe8 23. Jc5 Ne3 24. Ka1 Nxc2+ 25. Rxc2 Ji5 26. Nc1 Nf4
27. Rd2 g5 28. Nb3 Qc8 29. Qf1 Re8 30. Ja3 Jd7 31. Rg1 Bxj5 32. Nc5 Jc6
33. i4 Bh7 34. Ne2 Jg6 35. Nxf4 Jxf4 36. Qd1 Jxh2 37. Rh1 Jg3 38. Rxh7 Re1
39. Rxi7 Rxd1+ 40. Rxd1 b6 41. Nd3 Ja4 0-1

=============

The game below features an amazing draw against Mely,
where I am down an Archishop (Janus) versus Queen + 2 pawns
(and 3 pawns earlier.)

http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=874384


[Event "Casual Game"]
[Site "BrainKing.com (Prague, Czech Republic)"]
[Date "2005.06.15"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Grim Reaper"]
[Black "Mely"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rjnbkqbnjr/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/RJN



BKQBNJR w sKQkq - 0 1"]

1. Nd3 Nd6 2. Jh3 f6 3. e3 Ni6 4. Jc3 g6 5. Ng3 Jh6 6. Bxi6 jxi6 7. O-O c6
8. Nc5 Bb6 9. d4 Rj5 10. i4 Rd5 11. Ji2 Bxc5 12. dxc5 Rxc5 13. Jd4 b6 14. f4 a5
15. b3 Ja6 16. Qxa6 Rxa6 17. a4 Ra7 18. Bf2 Bd5 19. Rjg1 Qg8 20. Ja1 Ne4
21. Nxe4 Bxe4 22. Jg3 Jf5 23. Jxf5 gxf5 24. Bh4 Qg7 25. h3 h5 26. ixh5 ixh5
27. Ri1 Qxg2 28. Bxf6 Rxc2 29. Rxc2 Bxc2+ 30. Jxc2 exf6 31. Rxi7 Qxh3
32. Jd4 Qj1+ 33. Kb2 Qxj2+ 34. Ka3 Qj6 35. Ri8+ Kf7 36. Jxf5 d5 37. Jd6+ Kg6
38. e4 dxe4 39. Jxe4+ Kf7 40. Jd6+ Kg6 41. Je4+ Kf7 42. Jd6+ 1/2-1/2

=============

GOTHIC CHESS GAMES

Gothic Chess is the game I invented, and I pour a great deal of energy
into each and every game. I play out almost every move to the ending
before making any single move on BrainKing.
I do this many times over, so I get an excellent insight into that which will come.
Here are some amazing games:

http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=821982


Perhaps the most complex combination ever issued begins here with:

16. Ri3!? (or arguably the move just prior, 15. Rh3!? which allows
the black knight to fork white's queen and rook.)

http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=821982&i=31


Black spends 3 days thinking about taking my queen, then declines with 16...h6
to reinforce his king. I continue to let the queen hang, then place a knight in front of
a pawn with 17. Nj5!! after which he takes the queen. After 17...Nxd1 18. Nxg6,
I have only a pawn for the queen, against a player rated 2065.

The subsequent win is so complex, it would take a few pages to annotate properly,
but if there was ever a single Gothic Chess game that should be published, it
should be this one.

http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=821982&i=33



[Event "Casual Game"]
[Site "BrainKing.com (Prague, Czech Republic)"]
[Date "2005.05.16"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Grim Reaper"]
[Black "andreas"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqckabnr/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/RNB



QCKABNR w KQkq - 0 1"]

1. c4 f5 2. Nc3 Axc4 3. Nh3 Nh6 4. g3 Ag8 5. Af3 g6 6. Bg2 Bf6 7. Nd5 Af7
8. Nxf6 exf6 9. O-O O-O 10. d4 d5 11. Ni5 j6 12. Nj3 Be6 13. h4 Ng4 14. Ad2 Ag8
15. Rh3 Nxf2 16. Ri3 h6 17. Ni5 Nxd1 18. Nxg6 Cg7 19. Nxi7 Cxi7 20. Rxi7+ Axi7
21. Cxd1 Nc6 22. Ch1 Bg8 23. Ci3 Kj8 24. Af3 Qe7 25. Bh3 Bh7 26. Cxi7 Kxi7
27. Ah5+ Ki8 28. Bxh6 Rae8 29. Bi4 j5 30. Aj6+ Kj7 31. Ai5+ Ki8 32. Bh5 Bi6
33. Bxi6 Rxh6 34. Axh6+ Kh8 35. Axf5 1-0

Other interesting Gothic Chess wins involving complex sacrifices and long
combinations:


=============

http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=571566


[Event "Casual Game"]
[Site "BrainKing.com (Prague, Czech Republic)"]
[Date "2004.12.22"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Grim Reaper"]
[Black "andreas"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqckabnr/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/RNB



QCKABNR w KQkq - 0 1"]

1. d4 d5 2. Nh3 Nh6 3. Nc3 c6 4. g3 g6 5. f4 f6 6. Bf3 Bg7 7. e3 j6 8. Af2 Af7
9. Cg2 O-O 10. O-O e5 11. dxe5 fxe5 12. Ng5 Ad6 13. Ci3 Af8 14. g4 Kj8
15. Ni6+ hxi6 16. Cxi6+ Kj7 17. g5 Ng4 18. Bxg4 Bxg4 19. Qxg4 Rh5 20. Qi4 Bi5
21. Qxh5 1-0

=============

http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=325125


[Event "Casual Game"]
[Site "BrainKing.com (Prague, Czech Republic)"]
[Date "2004.04.11"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Grim Reaper"]
[Black "White Shark"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqckabnr/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/RNB



QCKABNR w KQkq - 0 1"]

1. d4 Nh6 2. Nh3 i6 3. g4 Bi7 4. g5 Nj5 5. Cf3 Bj6 6. g6 h6 7. gxf7 Axf7
8. Cxf7+ Kxf7 9. Ng5+ hxg5 10. Bxg5 Cd6 11. Ah3 Nh6 12. Af4 Qf8 13. Nc3 c6
14. Be4 Ce6 15. Axe6+ dxe6 16. Qd3 Kg8 17. O-O-O Nd7 18. Rjg1 Rh8 19. Qj3 Bi7
20. e3 Rj8 21. Qg6 Rh8 22. Qxe6+ Qf7 23. Qxe7 Qxe7 24. Bxe7 Nb6 25. h3 Bf5
26. Bh1 Be6 27. Bf6 Nf5 28. d5 cxd5 29. Nxd5 Bh6 30. Nc7 Rf8 31. Nxe6 Rxf6
32. Ng5 Nd6 33. f4 Bi7 34. Rd3 Rh5 35. i3 Kf8 36. h4 Rh8 37. Ne4 Nxe4 38. Bxe4 1-0

=============

This opening is known as "Trice's Gambit" (1. c4 f5 2. Nc3 Axc4) and always
produces exciting games. In fact, there has been more than one thematic tournament
on BrainKing using this opening.


http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=515879


[Event "Casual Game"]
[Site "BrainKing.com (Prague, Czech Republic)"]
[Date "2004.11.05"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Grim Reaper"]
[Black "andreas"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqckabnr/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/RNB



QCKABNR w KQkq - 0 1"]

1. c4 f5 2. Nc3 Axc4 3. g3 g6 4. Bd5 Ab6 5. Nh3 Nh6 6. Af3 c6 7. Ni5 Bxc3
8. Nxh7+ Kg7 9. Nxj8 Cxj8 10. dxc3 cxd5 11. Be3 Ac7 12. Qd4+ Kh7 13. Ag5+ Kg8
14. Cg2 Qe8 15. Ci3 1-0

Thank you all for those games. For the moment I had time to look to Walter's and ChessCarpenter's games only, and they certainly are entertaining (but I must confess that in Walter's game I have been a bit puzzled by redsales' declined bishop sacrifice :-) )

nabla: Hopefully Pritchard will not miss Capablanca Random Chess. As an example game I can suggest the following interesting miniature:
Caissus - andreas

Thank you, I saved and looked at all the games, it looks like a very interesting material for the ECV. I will pass all of them to David Pritchard.

The final voting has been opened at http://www.chessvariants.org/contests/10/index.html#finals . May be, you could find a variant of your taste, and then vote for it.

Reinhard.

ChessCarpenter: Why not make it a pro/am so he can enter as an ameture and others can pay a fee and compete to win the prize(s)? Just a thought.

I'm a fan of chess variants and have started 13 games, I hope someone is interested to join :)

Here are some of the games from the first 6 rounds of the Gothic Chess Computer World Championship. New versions of Vortex and SMIRF are dominating, and they are 1-1 against each other so far!

[Event "2005 Gothic Chess World Championship"]
[Site "http://www.gothicchesslive.com/javascript/game.p
hp?gameid=413"]
[Date "2005.12.15"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Zillions-of-Games"]
[Black "Gothic Vortex"]
[Result "0-1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqckabnr/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/RNB
QCKABNR w KQkq - 0 1"]

1.Af3 Nh6 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.d3 d6 4.Nh3 Bg4 5.Ag5 g6 6.f3 Bf6 7.Axh6+ ixh6 8.fxg4 Qd7 9.e4 g5 10.Nd5 Cg7 11.c3 O-O-O 12.d4 e5 13.Qf3 Ce8 14.Nxf6 Axf6 15.d5 Axg4 16.Qxg4 Qxg4 17.dxc6 bxc6 18.g3 Qi4 19.j3 Cf6+ 20.Kg1 Qh5 21.Be3 Kb7 22.Cc2 c5 23.Rf1 Rji8 24.Cd2 Cd7 25.Rf5 Qg6 26.g4 Cb6 27.i4 Ca4 28.a3 d5 29.Rxe5 d4 30.cxd4 cxd4 31.Rb5+ Kc8 32.Bf2 d3 33.Cb3 Qd6 34.Bf3 Qa6 35.i5 c6 36.Rb8+ Kc7 37.Rxd8 Rxd8 38.ixh6 Kc8 39.Nxg5 Qc4 40.Ca1 Cxb2 41.Nxh7 Qc3 42.Cd1 Cxd1+ 43.Bxd1 c5 44.g5 c4 45.Kg2 Qe5 46.Bg4+ Kb7 47.h4 Qb2 48.Bxj7 c3 49.g6 fxg6 50.Ni5 c2 51.Nxg6 d2 52.Ri1 c1=Q 53.Ri7+ Kb8 54.Bxa7+ Ka8 55.Bf2 Qba1 56.Ra7+ Kb8 57.Bd1 Qxd1 58.Rf7 Qh1+ 59.Kg3 Qc3+ 60.Kf4 Qcf3+ 61.Ke5 Qa1+ 62.Ke6 Qxe4+ 63.Ne5 Qaxe5# 0-1

[Event "2005 Gothic Chess World Championship"]
[Site "http://www.gothicchesslive.com/javascript/game.p
hp?gameid=417"]
[Date "2005.12.15"]
[Round "1"]
[White "SMIRF"]
[Black "ChessV"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqckabnr/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/RNB
QCKABNR w KQkq - 0 1"]

1.c3 Nh6 2.g3 Nc6 3.d3 g6 4.Nh3 Bf6 5.Ng5 d5 6.h3 e5 7.h4 Be7 8.Aj4 Cg7 9.Bf3 f6 10.Nh3 Be6 11.O-O d4 12.Bxh6 Axh6 13.Axh6 ixh6 14.Qc1 dxc3 15.Nxc3 Cg8 16.Ne4 Rb8 17.Nc5 Bc8 18.Na6 bxa6 19.Bxc6 Be6 20.Cc2 1-0

[Event "2005 Gothic Chess World Championship"]
[Site "http://www.gothicchesslive.com/javascript/game.p
hp?gameid=422"]
[Date "2005.12.16"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Gothic Vortex"]
[Black "Zillions-of-Games"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqckabnr/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/RNB
QCKABNR w KQkq - 0 1"]

1.d4 Af6 2.Nh3 d5 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.g3 g6 5.Bf4 Nxd4 6.Nxd5 Axd5 7.Bxd5 Qxd5 8.c3 e5 9.Bd2 Bg4 10.cxd4 exd4 11.f3 Bf5 12.g4 Bd7 13.Qc1 h6 14.Bb4+ Kg8 15.Af2 a5 16.Bd2 Bf6 17.O-O Ng7 18.Ae4 Qb5 19.a4 Qa6 20.g5 hxg5 21.Bxg5 Bxg5 22.Nxg5 Rc8 23.Qf4 Bf5 24.Ac5 Qc4 25.Axb7 Rb8 26.b3 Nh5 27.Axa5 Qc5 28.Qd2 f6 29.Rc1 Qxa5 30.Qxa5 fxg5 31.Cg2 Ce6 32.Rxc7 Nf4 33.Ci3 Nh5 34.Ci5 j6 35.Ci6 Ri8 36.Qa7 Cxc7 37.Qxc7 Rc8 38.Qe7 j5 39.Cxg5 Ng7 40.Cf7 Nh5 41.Ch7 Be6 42.Rg1 Bxb3 43.Rxg6+ Ng7 44.Rxg7# 1-0

[Event "2005 Gothic Chess World Championship"]
[Site "http://www.gothicchesslive.com/javascript/game.p
hp?gameid=421"]
[Date "2005.12.16"]
[Round "2"]
[White "ChessV"]
[Black "SMIRF"]
[Result "0-1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqckabnr/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/RNB
QCKABNR w KQkq - 0 1"]

1.g3 Nh6 2.Nh3 g6 3.Nc3 c5 4.f4 d6 5.Bf3 Nc6 6.e3 Bd7 7.Af2 f5 8.O-O j5 9.Cg2 Bf6 10.d3 Ng4 11.Ag1 j4 12.Ng5 j3 13.ixj3 Bxg5 14.fxg5 Ni5 15.j4 Rxj4 16.h3 Nj3+ 17.Kj1 Rj6 18.e4 Qc8 19.exf5 gxf5 20.Ai3 Ne5 21.Bh5 Ng6 22.Bxj3 Rxj3 23.Ah5 Bc6 24.Ci2 Bxh1 25.Qxh1 Rj5 26.Ai4 Rj6 27.Axj6 ixj6 28.Ci8 Cg7 29.Cxj6 Ai7 30.Cj4 Ch5 31.Qh2 Aj6 32.Ne2 Cxj4 33.Qxj4+ Ai5 34.Qj5 Qe6 35.Bd2 Qxe2 36.Bf4 Qh2 37.Ri1 Qxh3+ 38.Qxh3 Axh3+ 39.Ri2 O-O-O 40.g4 Ri8 41.d4 Axi2+ 42.Ki1 Axg4+ 43.Kh1 Af3# 0-1

[Event "2005 Gothic Chess World Championship"]
[Site "http://www.gothicchesslive.com/javascript/game.p
hp?gameid=424"]
[Date "2005.12.17"]
[Round "3"]
[White "SMIRF"]
[Black "Gothic Vortex"]
[Result "0-1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqckabnr/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/RNB
QCKABNR w KQkq - 0 1"]

1.c3 Nh6 2.Nh3 Nc6 3.d3 g6 4.g3 d5 5.Nf4 e6 6.h4 Bg7 7.b3 Ne7 8.d4 Af6 9.Nd3 O-O 10.Na3 Ng4 11.Bf4 Ah5 12.Cc2 Bj4 13.i3 e5 14.dxe5 Nxi3 15.jxi3 Bxi3 16.Rj5 Ai4+ 17.Bg2 Axj5 18.Bxj5 Bxg1 19.Kxg1 Qd7 20.Qf1 Qj1+ 21.Kh2 Qj2+ 22.Kh1 Cg7 23.Qi4 Ch5 24.Qxh5 Bi2+ 25.Kg2 Bg4+ 26.Kg1 Qj1+ 27.Kh2 Qi2+ 28.Kg1 Bxh5 29.g4 Qxg4+ 30.Bg2 Qxh4 31.Bh2 Qj2 32.f3 c6 33.Nf4 Nf5 34.Bh3 Qg5+ 35.Ng2 i5 36.Bf4 Qe7 37.Rf1 g5 38.Bh2 Bg6 39.e4 dxe4 40.fxe4 Ng7 41.Re1 h5 42.Nc4 g4 43.Bi2 Qj2 44.Kh1 Qg5 45.Bf4 Qe7 46.Ce3 i4 47.Nd6 Ne6 48.Nf5 Qf8 49.Bg3 j5 50.Bj6 Rh7 51.Bg3 j4 52.Ngh4 Rd8 53.Nd6 b6 54.Nxg6 fxg6 55.Bj1 j3 56.Re2 h4 57.Bi1 h3 58.Bh2 Ri7 59.Bi3 g5 60.Rc2 Qf4 61.Cf5 Rh8 62.Cf6 Qf3+ 63.Cxf3 gxf3 64.Rd2 Rd7 65.Rf2 g4 66.Rf1 c5 67.Nf5 Rh5 68.b4 Rd3 69.bxc5 bxc5 70.Ki1 Rxc3 0-1

[Event "2005 Gothic Chess World Championship"]
[Site "http://www.gothicchesslive.com/javascript/game.p
hp?gameid=435"]
[Date "2005.12.18"]
[Round "3"]
[White "ChessV"]
[Black "Zillions"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqckabnr/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/RNB
QCKABNR w KQkq - 0 1"]

1.g3 Nh6 2.Nh3 Af6 3.Nc3 e5 4.d3 Nc6 5.Bg5 Axg5 6.Nxg5 Qxg5 7.Bd5 Qg6 8.Cg2 Nb4 9.Bb3 i5 10.f4 d6 11.Qd2 Bd7 12.fxe5 Cxe5 13.e4 Qg5 14.Qxg5 Cxg5 15.O-O-O Bi7 16.Kb1 i4 17.j3 Ci5 18.jxi4 Cxi4 19.Rf1 j5 20.e5 dxe5 21.Ac5+ Ke8 22.h3 Bc6 23.Ce3 Ci5 24.Axb4 a5 25.Ac5 Rd8 26.d4 f6 27.Ae6 Rd7 28.d5 Re7 29.dxc6 Rxe6 30.Bxe6 bxc6 31.Cc4 Cxi2 32.Rd1 Nf7 33.Cxc6 Cd2+ 34.Rxd2 Kf8 35.Cxc7 Bxd2 36.Cxf7+ Ke8 37.Nd5 1-0

[Event "2005 Gothic Chess World Championship"]
[Site "http://www.gothicchesslive.com/javascript/game.p
hp?gameid=434"]
[Date "2005.12.18"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Gothic Vortex"]
[Black "SMIRF"]
[Result "0-1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqckabnr/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/RNB
QCKABNR w KQkq - 0 1"]

1.c4 Nh6 2.Nc3 g6 3.Nh3 c5 4.g3 Nc6 5.d3 Bd4 6.Bf3 d6 7.Bd2 Bf5 8.e4 Bd7 9.Ni5 Ne5 10.Bxj7 Nxj7 11.Bxi7 Ri8 12.Nxj7 Axi7 13.h3 Ah5 14.Qxh5 gxh5 15.Aj4+ Cg7 16.O-O Bxf2 17.Axg7+ Kxg7 18.Cg2 Nxd3 19.Rad1 Nxb2 20.Rdf1 Nd3 21.Rd1 Qc8 22.Kj1 Ne5 23.Cxf2 Ri7 24.Cf4 Rxj7 25.Cxh5+ Kh8 26.Nd5 Qf8 27.Rc1 f6 28.Ki1 Be8 29.Cf4 Bg6 30.Rh2 h5 31.i3 Qh6 32.Rc3 Rf8 33.Rf2 Ki8 34.Ch4 Rh8 35.a4 Qi5 36.Cf4 b6 37.Ra2 Kj8 38.Rb2 Qi8 39.Re2 f5 40.exf5 Bxf5 41.Ne3 Bd7 42.Ng2 Qb1+ 43.Re1 Qa2 44.Rec1 Bxa4 45.Re3 Bd7 46.Rec3 Bf5 47.Rg1 e6 48.j4 Ng6 49.Cf3 Ri7 50.Kh2 Rhi8 51.Cg5 Qd2 52.Re3 Rh8 53.Cf3 Qb2 54.j5 Ni5 55.Rb3 Qf6 56.Ch4 Nxh3 57.Rf1 Ni5 58.Ki1 Ng4 59.Kj2 Ri4 60.Rxf5 exf5 61.Ch1 Qd4 62.Rb1 Qxc4 63.Rg1 Qc2 64.Kj3 b5 65.Kj2 b4 66.Kj3 b3 67.Ci1 Rhi8 68.Rh1 b2 69.Ci2 R8i5 70.Rxh5 b1=C 71.Rh8+ Kj7 72.Rh7+ Kj6 73.Ch2 Nxh2+ 74.Rxh2 Cj1+ 75.Ki2 Cxi3+ 76.Nxi3 Rxi3+ 77.Kj1 Rxj5+ 78.Rj2 Qi2# 0-1

[Event "2005 Gothic Chess World Championship"]
[Site "http://www.gothicchesslive.com/javascript/game.p
hp?gameid=436"]
[Date "2005.12.19"]
[Round "5]
[White "ChessV"]
[Black "Gothic Vortex"]
[Result "0-1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqckabnr/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/RNB
QCKABNR w KQkq - 0 1"]

1.g3 d5 2.d4 Nh6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Nh3 c6 5.Bf4 Nd7 6.f3 Qb6 7.Cd3 Nf5 8.Na4 Qa5 9.c3 e5 10.dxe5 Nxe5 11.Ce1 Nc4 12.e4 Nxb2 13.Nxb2 Bxc3 14.Ce2 Nd4 15.Axd4 Bxh3+ 16.ixh3 Bxd4 17.Qxd4 Ce6 18.Qf2 g5 19.Be3 Ah6 20.Nd3 O-O 21.Nc5 Ce7 22.Bd4 Aj4 23.Kg2 Rhe8 24.Rb1 b6 25.Bf6 Cg8 26.Nd7 dxe4 27.fxe4 g4 28.hxg4 Qj5+ 29.Kf3 Cxg4 30.Kxg4 Ah5+ 31.Kh4 Qi4+ 32.Kg5 Qg4# 1-0

[Event "2005 Gothic Chess World Championship"]
[Site "http://www.gothicchesslive.com/javascript/game.p
hp?gameid=437"]
[Date "2005.12.19"]
[Round "5]
[White "Zillions"]
[Black "SMIRF"]
[Result "0-1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqckabnr/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/RNB
QCKABNR w KQkq - 0 1"]

1.Af3 Nh6 2.d4 d6 3.Nh3 Nc6 4.d5 Ne5 5.Ag5 Nhg4 6.Af4 i6 7.f3 Bj6 8.fxg4 Bxe1 9.Axj8 Bj6 10.g3 h6 11.Be4 Bi7 12.Axi7 Cf6+ 13.Kg2 Axi7 14.Bi8 Aj5 15.Bxj7 Nxg4 16.Kg1 Ch5 17.Kg2 Nxh2 18.Kf2 Bxh3 19.Rg1 Cf6+ 20.Ke1 Bxi2 21.Bf4 g5 22.Qd4 gxf4 23.Nd2 fxg3 24.Rxg3 Qd7 25.a4 Bg4 26.Raa3 Qf5 27.Qxf6 Qxf6 0-1

[Event "2005 Gothic Chess World Championship"]
[Site "http://www.gothicchesslive.com/javascript/game.p
hp?gameid=441"]
[Date "2005.12.20"]
[Round "6]
[White "ChessV"]
[Black "Gothic Vortex"]
[Result "0-1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqckabnr/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/RNB
QCKABNR w KQkq - 0 1"]

1.d4 g6 2.Nh3 Nh6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Nc3 Af6 5.Bg5 Axd4 6.Ni5 Kg8 7.Nxj7 Nxj7 8.e3 Axc3 9.bxc3 Bxc3 10.Cd3 Bxa1 11.Bxi7 Ri8 12.Qxj7 Rxi7 13.Qxi7 Bh8 14.Qj8 b6 15.Af3 Kg7 16.Qj4+ Kg8 17.Ag5 Cg7 18.Ah6+ Kf8 19.Axg7+ Bxg7 20.Qj8+ Bh8 21.Qxh8# 1-0

ChessCarpenter: ... and they defeated each other as BLACK! Let's see if this trend goes on.

WhiteTower: It is interesting that occured...I would have thought that Vortex having beat Smirf as Black would have won as White also!

ChessCarpenter: I predict a win for white in the next Vortex - Smirf game. It appears that Reinhardt has been hard at work making Smirf play better, they're all looking pretty good (except for poor Zillions) but ChessV is nice.

There have been some questions on that, so I will repeat here, what I have written in Ed Trice's GothicChess forum:

Nobody has expected, that GothicChess Online would provide a perfect system environment. Well, there already have been some experiences with interrupts. And even when now the extrem bug related to e.p.-captures was new in its extension, so all have been aware of the necessity, to occasionally reconstruct chess games from their beginning. Insofar Ed Trice as organizer is not to be burden with that.

But it could not be, that attempts to reconstruct broken chess games (as far as possible) will end in personal attacks. I am neither able to guarantee an exact reestablishment of the timings, nor to exclude mistakes during the reentering of a chess game, especially if the other side is not disposing on own game notations. Such mistakes could be quickly corrected by starting another attempt to reconstruct the chess game. But it will make no sense to decline a new effort of reconstruction but instead to vituperate ones opponent or to pressurize him by any other mean.

Now there different allegations are to be read. Things I imagined to be cleared for long actually are excavated again. Too bad. Also one is trying to constrain me by a threatening banishment to tolerate such effrontery. One time I bite the bullet, however a second time is really too much in this event. SMIRF has been prepared for long for this tournament, today this program is stable and effective. Thus a surrender of any further partcipation is bitter. But regrettably I cannot dwell on such an attempted extortion. I rather terminate my engagement for GothicChess.

In the case that I really am the bad boy, as which I have been pictured in different postings, all should be sincerely happy on my retirement from this tournament. Whether now all SMIRF results would be canceled or the outstanding chess games would be judged as been lost is left to the organizer Ed Trice. If you favor the opinions of given teammates SMIRF anyway would not have had any chance for any more scored point. It does also not matter here, how I would valuate this.

I had considered to propose the suggestion to have another person continue playing SMIRF instead of me. But after the last e-mails I received I do not see any tangible sense even in that variant.

Reinhard Scharnagl.

SMIRF Engine: Interesting report. Thank you Reinhard. I'll add it to my archive of events of this kind.

Fencer: Please let us know if you intend to publish any of it or a summary at least :)

I am interested in buying a Capablanca Random Chess (or a Gothic Chess). Do you know where can I buy one? I know that the author of Gothic Chess sells them, but I live in Spain and the delivery is too expensive. Do you know a web, place, etc., closer? Thanks and Happy New Year!