I am just relaying the message. I interviewed Larry for Gothic Chess review, the quarterly magazine. Larry told me he was the highest rated Shogi player that was not Asian. I do not know if that was a "current" statement at the time of the interview, or if it reflected a previous accolade.

I cannot speak of Tsiang Ki since I am unaware of these Asian variants. I can only relay what I have been told by a formidabe player.

A chess variant is any variation on the game of chess. Shogi is considered a stand alone game by itself. I have played Gothic Chess face to face with the world's strongest occidental Shogi player, Chess International Master Larry Kaufman.

He does not consider Gothic Chess and Shogi to be in the same category.

Why is that absurd?

1800+ Gothic Tournament

Despite the recent tragedy, the very strong 1800+ Gothic Chess Tournament concluded recently. There was a major upending of ratings as a result of the strong fighting it out with the strong. ChessCarpenter gained the most points, scoring a stunning 6 out of 8 and nearly getting a draw with me. My own personal adversary, nstre (who always plays me tough) managed only 2 out of 8, and Fencer was blanked!

I hope to run some more strong events such as this more often. Those who are in the top 10 that would like to participate in such an event, please let me know.

You can see that the BrainPawn section was hit the hardest, since most made new IDs to participate in this event (which was fine) but now their population has been cut in half. Some people may not even remember all of the IDs they made just for this event, so I am thinking about scrapping it altogether.

More on the pawn count...

Originally I had the non-captured pawn permutaion count at 774,468,423,574,600,034,220 which, as Thad pointed out, seems a little high. When using the concept of the "rammed pawns" constrained to a rank, there are actually 30 different configurations possible per file.

You can have an unmoved pawn in the a-file on a2, and the black pawn can be one of 5 different squares in the same file, a7,a6,a5,a4 or a3. If the white pawn were on a3, then there are 4 squares for the black pawn, etc.

There are always 5-r permutations for the black pawn for each rank of displacement, r, the white pawn has moved.

So, there are 5+4+3+2+1 = 30 possible configurations per file. The total number of permutations is therefore 30^10, which is 590,490,000,000,000. This is only 590 trillion, a lot less than 774 quintillion!

Yes, as stated on the page, I wanted to calculate a reasonable upper bound that could not be exceeded.

The lower bound can be estimated easily by not placing the kings on the board at the end, and restricting the pawn count as you indicated. It gets messy though, when you consider a position that has a legal en passant capture, even though not executed, can also look the same as a position where the en passant capture opportunity has expired. These identical board setups are actually two different positions.

The same is true of castling rites. If I move my king to the left, then move it back to the original square, but it looks like I can castle, it is really a different position than an indentical setup wherein I have not moved the king.

If someone wants to work out the numbers to that level of detail, they are welcomed to it!

I also made a formula error for the Bishops. I listed them as a summation of a choose formula, rather than of the form (T/2)^2 where T is the total number of vacant squares that 2 opposite color bishops can occupy. The formula should not be T choose 2 as I indicated at the top of the page, since that implies the Bishops can be both on the same color squares.

I did explain this part of the calculation properly but I did not redraw the formula yet.

While BrainKing was down, I was counting the number of Gothic Chess positions that were possible. I came up with 32,099,674,107,692,140,366,789,953,222,888,490,987,180,838,400,000,000 positions before any pieces were captured so I know this final number will be huge.

If anyone wants to double check my math, visit...

this link and let me know what you get.

Rob's game is at Defrag Game for those that want a quick click.

On the other end of the spectrum, I think I have the quickest game,

mate in 5 which only took 5 moves.

Of interest is that Rob defended a difficult Queen vs. Queen + Pawn ending in his 86 move draw, but in my 74 move win, it was a rather complex Chancellor and Pawn ending, the first time this class of positions was ever reached.

No, you all have to take up a collection and buy me a Gothic Chess set :)

I sent an email to everyone who registered for the tournament, but one email bounced back, so I guess that was you Felix. Just sent an email to GothicChessInfo@aol.com with your info, and I will send your money back to you.

The images on the website were created on my Macintosh with a little program I wrote to save and replay games.

When Gothic Vortex comes out, there will be a free version that just can save and replay games.

Every month I ask for annotated submissions from the players here, and I do not get any.

As I review my games, I select the ones with themes that would help explain certain aspects of the game.

I think this approach makes the most sense for the time being, but I always welcome input from other players.

I have returned to the task of building more web pages after a bit of a hiatus. This month's game is rather interesting, featuring a "smack down" attack where both sides just go after each other.

August Game is the link is anyone would like to see it.

I will gradually work on annotating the other games from months gone by, and work on making this a regular feature at the end of each month.

You have never played over-the-board, so you have no such rating. This is not an over-the-board tournament anyway, so even if you did have one, that rating would not be used.

The only official World Ratings, as you call it, are those played over-the-board in over-the-board tournaments.

The tournament is played under different constraints. The BrainKing rating is the only one that matters.

You have played more BrainKing games than under the other system, so I consider the BrainKing rating more accurate anyway.

Those ratings were mostly for over-the-board play. I included a few yahoo games at the request of players who had no rating at all.

Why on earth would we use OTB ratings for a tournament on here, especially when there is a system in place to rate you here?

I am not sure what you mean. The BrainKing ratings are always in effect, and I think they are more than adequate.

Can you please explain what the world ratings are, and why you believe a substitution is necessary?

It is my hope that this board is used to publish interesting information about the game of Gothic Chess. On more than one occasion, I have removed derrogatory remarks and posts that are obviously inflamatory in nature.

Here is the editing policy I employ.

1. If you post something that is blatantly antagonistic, that post will be removed.

2. If you continue to use this forum to carry out personal disputes, you will have your posting priviledges revoked.

That being said, try to resolve matters of dispute with the person you are having the dispute with, and do not make it everyone else's business.

To celebrate the fact that we recently received additional funding for the Gothic Chess Federation, we will have a $3000 first prize tournament for the title of World Champion. There is no entrance fee!! First round winners from each section of 8 players will also receive $250 as soon as the play completes. If more than one winner, this $250 will be split equally. Winners of the second round (if there is one) will receive $500 each. This money will be split in the event of multiple winners in each section. The winner of the tournament will receive an additional $3000. The second place finisher will receive $1000.

No unauthorized explosives without expressed written permission of Fencer! We already had one server blow up this week!

Thanks!

Click here for Gothic Openings

It is not much, but all I have so far.

Some people were asking me about the World Championship tournament, where the winner receives $2000 and then would play me for the title.

Since only 3 people have signed up, will the winner still receive $2000?

The answer is "yes". The prize fund comes from the coffers of our sales, such as Gothic Chess boards and things like that. We have more than enough money to cover the prize fund.

So, for $50, you have a chance to win $2000.

The tournament starts on September 1, and I think the average rating of the players is below 1500!

Take a chance! Somebody will win the $2000, and it will not be me!

I thought the Chancellor ending was important since it is the first real life example of such an ending. Even the famous Rook and Pawn Lucena Position had a predecessor referenced in that book from over 500 years ago!

The Chancellor and Pawn ending we were in has no such predecessor -- it is the first such ending, ever.

You are correct in that 38...d5 was a transition of sorts in the game. In fact, you could argue black was losing the whole game by making non-developing opening moves, at one point in time with only two minors developed while all of white's forces were in play with the option to castle to either side.

After 38...d5 white did have the opportunity to equalize, but the pawn push b3 on move 44 is where I consider the position definitively lost.

black to move and win

I think Black was forced to take the bishop, allowing the chancellor check and then the recovery of it, leading to an equal position with white to move and deliver check.

I see another position which might seem a little confusing.

white to move

From the prior sequence black allowed the a-pawn to fall. Why?

I had already worked out a way to exchange chancellors if Cxa7 was played. It is odd to say this, buy Cxa7 was actually a bad move in that position!

The game could drag on with Chancellors checking each other ad infinitum, so the only way to end the game was to aggressively seek a Chancellor trade. The only way to do this was to set up a check that also is in the same rank or file as the white chancellor.

Independent of white's choices, after Cxa7 I could set up such an exchange, and this is exactly how the game was concluded.

I will have to annotate the ending of that game (I do not think it would be possible to annotate the whole thing.) I learned a lot about Chancellor and Pawn endings from it, and there are some new strategies for when to give up your checking sequence and allow yourself to be checked.

I am assuming my move 54...i6 is the source of some confusion. I thought about this move for a long time before making it. The rest of the game we pretty much played at a rate of about 2 minutes per move. We were both online and I guess we were both anxious of the outcome before CaissasDream went on vacation.

Here is the start of the difficult portion of the ending

white to move

This is where I stopped checking as black and allowed white to give check, only for his checks to expire at the moment when I could play ...Cd2+ which wins the b3 pawn and established 3 connected passed pawns on the queenside.

There is too much to write about here, but that is a good start.

I think it is some exciting stuff. Check it out by clicking here and feel free to post your comments.

Click on Order your set if you want one. To see what one looks like up close, click on this link

And you can order 2 sets for twice as much money, a real bargain :)

Well, the good news is, Zillions is weak at Gothic Chess. The branching factor is still too high. It plays maybe at the 1600 or 1700 level overall, but I have yet to see it play an endgame over the 1500 level.

The best way to defeat these programs is with your mind. When I play games on here, I set up two Gothic Chess boards. One with the parent position, and another as an analysis board. For every move for every game I take it down as far as I can, usually 20 or 30 moves ahead. Then I look at the other board, set the position up again, then play down the line in the same fashion. Eventually you get the sense for the type of ending you can force, and the kind your opponent may be able to steer clear of. Knowing this, you can make strategic moves to get even masters in trouble.

That way I can play well beyond the scope of any program, and I have yet to have any problems.

Of course, the hypothetical engine we were talking about is just that -- hypothetical. It may be here one day though.

Maybe we will look for some beta testers in the near future. I am not sure if anyone would be interested in doing this.

If anyone is interested, we have just successfully integrated the BrainKing ratings on the GothicChess.org website. Now, every night at Midnight "Fencer Time", all of the win-loss-draw stats will be pushed to the GothicChess.org server.

You can click here to see the ratings format or just go to http://www.GothicChess.org/brain_king.html yourself. You might want to bookmark that page.

I created an 1800+ tournament for Gothic. Winner to receive a free Gothic Chess set. Too few of the top players have been duking it out, let's mix it up a little :)

I think the price should be such that it makes the effort worthwhile, but doesn't put people in the poorhouse.

I am not sure what the market will bear, but I think $50 for about a combined 500 hours of effort to produce and test the program should be about right.

I have given some thought to making different flavors available. For example, a free version would still give most people a battle, but if we limit it to 9 plies of search, we can be assured that it will not destroy the game playing population on here if some evil people were turning it loose on others.

Maybe the $50 version would have some additional features, like maybe 11 plies of search (maximum) and a larger opening book.

A higher end version might also have endgame databases, like those dreadful Rook and Pawn endings or Queen vs. Archbishop (now that would be cool.)

The problem is, how can we be sure that releasing a program will not kill the fun of playing online, yet at the same time give people some cool features (a strong playing partner and a worthy opponent) ?

This is the debate.

Zillions is so weak it is not funny. I have found it makes losing moves as early as move 3 or 4 of its games. It often would push the same pawn twice in the opening, like d2-d4 then d4-d5, which is an immediate loss in about 99% of the cases! So, I have been structuring my entire opening repetoire to be "anti-Zillions", and I have yet to lose a game on here.

The reason I posed the question is because I am interested in the demand for such an engine.

For example, let's just say I were to put together a team of programmers to tackle the job of creating a program that can analyze over 250,000 positions per second (compare this to zillions at about 30,000 per second) that would have a great graphical user interface, an anti-Zillions opening book, some of my own opening cooks and improvements to games I have seen played by the "top 10" on here, do you think anyone would want to buy it?

What features would you want to see in it?

The reason I ask is because some discussion is currently going on. If the playing population on here could convince me it would be worth it, such a thing could be done, rather quickly too I might add.

And, for Janus chess fans, one small change to the starting position, and you have a Janus chess engine (although no opening book of course.)

Comments?

Does anybody think a program to play the game of Gothic Chess would be cool? One with an opening book, the ability to search ahead (fast, not like Zillions) and analyze positions? Or do you think that such a program might spoil the game?

Put your opinion in here, feel free to elaborate.

You might want to go to http://www.GothicChess.org/how_to_play_games.html (or just click here ) and review some of the games there. They are animated files, so you just sit back and watch a little movie.

I finally finished annotating my marathon game with nstre. I am working on getting caught up with the website.


http://www.GothicChess.org/gotm_2003_04.html

is the link or

click here to go there directly.

I put your flags there intentionally :)

Orders are now being accepted for the next batch of sets that will arrive in August.

This is the order link for those that are interested.

The tournament will start on September 1.

Registrations are now being accepted for the World Championship Qualification tournament. Whoever wins this event will receive a MINIMUM of $2000 and earn the right to play me for the title of World Champion.

For more details, go to GothicChess.org and follow the links.

There are prizes of $150 for each section winner, so there is a 1 out of 8 chance you will win money in this event!

Sets are $36 mailed anywhere in the United States. There is a greater cost if shipped elsewhere in the world.

Sponsors ask one question up front: What is the head count?

We are not nearly ready to begin appealing to sponsors.

That would be a $300 payout per $400 of entrance fees, leaving nothing of substance for the winner.

The formula will be:

$150 per preliminary section round winner, no matter how many sections.

If we used your example, with 16 sections and a second tier of payouts, then only $1600 would be available to the FINALIST who gets to play me for the world championship.

I think you will agree a split of $1000 to the winner then $600 to the runner up is rather thin for such a grand title.

The finalist who wins the whole thing will get another $125 times the total sections playing at the start. With your 16 section example, that is $2000 for the finalist.

I am thinking $50 to enter, with 8 player sections. The winner of each section gets $150, no matter what, paid immediately as the results are determined.

This way there is one payout for every 8 entrants, independent of the total number of players.


There would then be a payout to the finalist who wins this event, and this dollar amount would depend on how many sections we have.

My thoughts are that this payout should be very, very high. Like ridiculously high.

When the person plays me thereafter, it would be for a trophy and a title with the money depending only on how many are in the tournament.

Some examples:

8 sections of 8 players will produce 8 winners of $150. The person who wins the tournament would get an additional $1000 and gets to play me for the title of World Champion, but there is little money left over for this.

The more sections we have, the richer the payout is.

10 sections, $1250 to the winner
15 sections, $1875 to the winner
20 sections, $2500 to the winner

What do you guys think?

I am wondering how many people would pay a $50 entrance fee to play for the World Championship Qualifying event here on BrainKing?

I would not participate, of course, but the winner would play me for the title.

As soon as the person wins, they get the $1500 second prize money, since they can do no worse than this. If they beat me, they get another $1500.

What do you guys think? Would you pay to play?

I am already working on a way to catalog all of the games here on BrainKing, but it is a ways off.

Yes, it is planned for September, but as I read his question, which uses the present tense:

"Aren't we playing for the title of World Champion in the current BrainKing Gothic Chess Tournament?"

I took that to mean 65 thinks that the winner of the CURRENT 103 player tournament would be the World Champion, and this is not the case. Whoever wins that tournament would be $250 richer.

The World Championship will have an entrance fee, and the winner will get thousands of dollars, not just a few hundred.

Nope. Just money.

That is defintely a pounder!

...I am trying to remain IMPARTIAL as this is a CONTEST...but if you show me SOMETHING leading to a perpetual check draw you get the mug.

If Cassias, whose GAME this is NOT, but who seems to be closer to the mark in being able to analyze it....should he show the correct sequence, the mug is his.

Now back to work, this IS boot camp LOL!