http://brainking.com/en/Tournaments?trg=8659&u=4398&trnst=0

Fencer, could you change the name of this DB to Espionage instead of Espionage, Small Espionage and Fast Espionage? Since the merger of several game DBs, the others (Pente for example) are now named after only the main game. I would like to see this one done that was too. ;-)

Thanks, Fencer.

Hi. I would like to trade lessons in Small Espionage, which I don't understand, for lessons in chess - where I am an old master despite my stats here - or lessons in Tank Battle, where only Fencer and Whisper are able to beat me.
Also, I may have figured out at why women are better than us at Battleboats, something that's
puzzled me since the third grade.
Be good.

I have a game where my opponent has only a 5 left. His castle is surrounded by bombs. I have a 5, a 4, & a 3, but no minesweepers. Is it a draw? Or is there some way for me to corner him?

Thad: If your opponent can't move he'll loose. It says so in the rules...

pauloaguia: I know that. The question is, can that position be forced upon him?

I think you should be able to corner him - but it would be unfair to discuss an ongoing game.

AbigailII: I don't think I can, if he knows which piece is my 5 and that the others are no threat to him.

The player & I have already drawn that game, so there is no harm in speaking of it now.

Ah, yes, I forgot about the vulcano's for a moment: he can just keep circling them.

this situation is a toughie to call. If your base is surrounded by bombs as well you can get/trap him... there are many variables to look at though.. 1. Does he know which piece is your 5? 2. Does he know that your sweepers are all gone? 3. is your base protected as well? If he does not know which piece is your 5 than you can trick him, also if he still thinks you ahve sweepers then he may run from your "?" pieces. id jsut put all my pieces as clsoe together and attack him. or split up to try and trick him. But basically if your opponent kept good notes he should be able to force the draw unless he blunders badly. just by running in circles. sweepers are too valueable to give away. I will always try to keep one even if it means giving up material advantage. Being Without one makes his bombs and 5s nearly invincible.

I made a request for Espionage variants without volcanoes on the feature request board, and in explaining why I was sent to this board.

Espionage isn't like any of the other games. Someone compared it to chinese chess; which doesn't resemble espionage at all. At espionage the pieces are hidden at the start and you can discover them with your recons. That's unlike any other game, that's what makes it special, what makes it espionage. Some people do like the volcanoes, they like a longer, defensive game. The best strategy at espionage is to hide behind the volcanoes and wait for the other to attack.

Without the volcanoes the game has more opportunities. It's more dynamic and you can develop an offensive playing style or a defensive one, but you're not forced into defense like with the volcanoes. I know this because I play the game at IYT, where the versions without the volcanoes are much more popular than the ones with. It's good to offer both options, I think.

How about a version where you can move as many (or as few) pieces as you want on any turn. Comments?

but there can be many problems with this. If you move only 1 time adn the next players moves 7 pieces. things can get a little crazy.Towards the end of the game, you can hold the game under seige by not moving a piece and forcing your opponent into a no win situation. if you could find a way to limit the moves... such as a minumum and maximum move amount that might be better. Taking advantage of the amount of moves your opponent has left in a game is crucial to the mathematics of the game. If i am playing fast espionage (4 moves per turn) and you only have 4 or less peices remaining that means you MUST move every piece each turn you play from now unitl the end of the game. this makes your moving more precise and you have to think more, but if i can suddenly in the same situation mvoe 1 piece instead of all 4 i can prevent my opponent from attacking and trapping me. Adn i can potentially hold them off forever(babysitting).Interesting option but not to sure hwo it would work.

How about an "Open Espionage" - where you have to move somewhere between 2-10 pieces per move.

Nothingness: If I move zero on a turn, and you do the same on your next turn, then I say I'd be required to move at least one on my next turn. No indefinite stalling. I could sit there an not move for as many turns as I wanted if you kept moving, but if you wanted to force me to move, you'd be able to.

BIG BAD WOLF: Why limit it to 10? I see no reason.

Entering moves could get to be a pain, especially if you decide you did something you don't like and want to start all over.

Can someone explain to me clearly what happens when each piece attacks each other one?

Up until just now I was under the impression a sapper wins when attacking any numbered piece, however I was sadly mistaken and this has now resulted in an almost ceratin loss. I was thrown off by the unclear wording in the rules.

So I'd like a clear description of exactly which attacks lose and exactly which attacks win.

M132T003C: Higher numbers always beat lower numbers. Attacking piece wins when pieces are equal. Think of spies and sappers as 'zeros'. In addition to the above capture rules, sappers win when attacking 5s. Sappers also deactivate bombs.

The only time a sapper can win a battle is when it attacks a spy and sapper and a 5. It loses if it is attacked by any pieces! Keep ahold of them as long as possible b/c they are the only piece that can deactivate bombs and are the only piece other than a 5 that can kill a 5 in a battle. Once you get all of your opponents sappers adn you have a 5 left, it is ALMOST impossible to lose! This is why I trade my 5s for 4s. I like my 4s better than my 5s.

Thad: You just explained in three lines what the rules take an page to explain vaguely, why don't the rules say it that clearly? Thanks for that.

Nothingness: thanks for the strategy advice, that may help too.

Nothingness: why trade 5s for 4s .. if your opponent still has a 5 he can easily kill your 4s with it (a sapper can be killed by a 5 when the 5 hits first while a 4 cant kill a 5 by hitting first)

Hrqls: Becasue there are more pieces that can kill 5s than there are that can kill 4s, so in some sense, the 4s are stronger.

Yes Thad explained it pretty much as good as it can be explained! I prefer the 4 b/c it cannot be scared away and can rape the board. Here is an example. You have a 5 left i have a 4 left with 3 of my sappers. If I place my 4 on the left side of teh board you must have your 5 there as well. other wise I have free reign of that side of the board. Adn if you decided to keep your 5 on the other side i road block you with one sapper. and prevent you from getting in. Now at this point in the game i ahve 3 pieces that your 5 will fear. but you have only one piece that i fear!

Thad created a tourney for me. Espionage champsionships. Ill probably enter all three by the time they start,after i get my rook membership in December!. Everyone is welcome!

Nothingness: Here's a link: ;-)

http://brainking.com/en/Tournaments?trg=12181&trnst=0&tp=55

Thad & Nothingness: ah! thats something that i didnt think about .. thanks!

someday i will train myself in this game ;)

http://brainking.com/en/Tournaments?trg=12856&tri=77647&trnst=0

I have a Fast Espionage tournament set to start in 3 days. Right now it is only myself and one other opponent. So for those of you who like to play Fast Espionage please sign up for my tournament. The tournament is called Fast Espionage. One game matches. 2 days control time.

So if 2 pieces of equal value are involved in attack- the attacking piece wins? If that is correct- does anyone know why this rule is different from other on line versions of this game- where equal pieces cancel each other out and both are taken from the board?

DragonKing: Seems to me that the attacking piece should win when equal pieces are involved.

Thad: I think so too, but perhaps the other could be a new varient?

I have a tournament starting in about 5 days for Espionage. If you are an avid player of the game or just curious about the game please sign up for my tournament. Thank you.
http://brainking.com/en/Tournaments?trg=13344&tri=83418&trnst=o&u=7810

i too have one that is about to start check the espionge fellowship...http://brainking.com/en/Tournaments?
trg=12936&tri=78875&trnst=0 hopefully that is the link

http://brainking.com/en/Tournaments?trg=12936&trnst=0

will soon be shut down.. if this is so, perhpas this can prompt the transfer of players to this much superior site. Hopefully we can get the 2 open (volcano-less) versions here soon. to accomodate the new members that we will soon be getting.....

DragonKing: By having the attacking player win when pieces of equal rank are involved the assertiveness and aggressiveness of BOTH players will be greatly increased, making the game more action packed and interesting.

Is this the pieces marked with a 5 ? . new to the game so would just like to check .

im not to sure what you mean.. the #5 general is the highest ranking piece. the ? is what all unexposed pieces are reffered to until they are revealed by a recon/scout..

I meant is my generals marked with a number 5 or 4 or a 3 ,

can any soldier capture a spy or only another spy or sapper can do this ?

any piece can capture a spy or a sapper.... BUt remember when equal strength pieces attack each other only the piece that is attacked is removed fom the board.

Nothingness: Thanks

Why are the captured pieces not displayed?

joshi tm: Good question. I've asked this before, but never gotten a straight answer.

I think you should find out the rank of any piece you capture.
Other players think it should remain unknown (unless you've spied it). Programming for known and unknown pieces could be difficult. Other than that, I know of no reason that they are not displayed. I keep a list in my private notes for each game, but that's a big pain in the ass, which is the main reason I don't play more.

Here is the deal with captured pieces. The one reason is that it adds an element of skill to the game. You mus t use the notes feature to decide for yourself. the spy is the piece that identifies the pieces so if you capture the piece before it is ID' then you have to Guess what that piece was and notes would be almost pointless. Note taking is very easy. Here is an example of my notes. CAptured pieces: 1,2,3,2,1,sap,SPy,SPy,5,4,1,

Nothingness: But there's no reason not to show a record of pieces that have been captured, especially the known ones. Use a question mark for unknown pieces if you must, but put up a list. Computers are great at keeping track of stuff for us. Let's make the game better by letting it do this menial task for us. You can still use notes for things like losing a capture attempt to a higher piece and other details that the better players record but that novices do not.

Thad: I agree with Thad - the game how it is now is beter played with people who have time to keep track of things in the notes - where for someone like me who likes to play fast, it takes too much time messing with 1 games.

Also like Thad said, if the captured pieces is unkown, then mark it with a ? - only if it was revealed with a spy first should the actuall captured pieces be shown (or beter yet, show what the pieces was captured with - so if it was captured with a 2, then a ?-2 - that way you know it was either a 1, 2, spy, or sapper) - but I would be happy with just a ?

i guess im so used to taking all of those notes myself it doesnt faze me!

Small Espionage

Any one interested in joining here is one for you!

I guess by now all of you knwo that they have released 2 new versions of espionage. Both without the volcanos. And they added the captured pieces feature that we all have been waiting for! remember 5 moves for the larger version and 3 moves for the smaller version!