mctrivia: Happy new year.

ThunderGr: I do not know everything. I never said I did. However I am just expressing my views which is not arrogant. Some people agree with me and some do not. I see other people's views and find they have some merit. I am not belittling anyone or accusing Fencer of theft. He is providing a service for the money he collects. However I remember a time when I started to paying for brainking there was much growth and excitement. I feel the last couple of years it has become stale and stagnant. For my money I am looking for more. That is not being arrogant, belittling or accusing someone of theft. It seems to me the only one who is belittling anyone is YOU. Anyone who feels as I do is called ARROGANT. Read some of my replies to others including you and you will see I am not arrogant or belittling, just expressing my feelings. Like I have said before, I enjoy playing here. If people are content with things remaining the same and want to renew memberships that is fine. However for me I expect more from the person cashing our membership fee checks. Nothing personal, just my opinion. Not trying to fight, just defending myself.

Brian1971: Fencer said, several years ago, that he was not as dedicated or enthusiastic. He also said then that the site could no longer be his priority. I must admit that I'm surprised that it comes as news to you.

You're right that a perceived lack of interest will result in the loss of paying members. There are gammoner Pawns here who would have gladly renewed their Rooks if their requests, you might even say pleas, had been answered. Sadly the impression has long been that the gammon variants, despite being collectively the site's most played games, have not been considered important enough to fix various issues. I forget the details but the Backgammon forum has plenty of words about them up until people gave up trying. And where is the AutoPass for Ludo? I think I've wished for it almost half a gazillion times!

Your perception that activity is dwindling is a correct one. Two years ago, in November 2013, I took a snapshot of the Running Games page. The number of started games was 53000. The November 2015 page showed 33750. Today it's 31150 (although that difference may well be seasonal). I did take a couple of snapshots several years before 2013. Unfortunately they got lost but I remember noting that the 2013 figure was definitely lower.

But it's not just BrainKing. DailyGammon has seen a decline in numbers and Pocket-Monkey struggles to fill its fast class of tournaments. The years have seen other sites and a whole new mobile market to entice people away.

With regard to memberships here, there are 52 Rooks, 10 Knights 5 Bishops and one Forever Knight showing for this year. That's a total value of 2367 Euro (assuming 12 months for the Rooks and Knights), and that Forever Knight will, by definition, contribute nothing next year and thereafter. I have to believe Fencer when he says that memberships are the least contributor to the site's profitability as that sum may well be gobbled up by the Internet Provider alone.

Brian1971: I knew that my point would not reach you but whatever. Fencer's position is the same for quite some time now and this is known to everyone that cared to check the Forums. I am not on this site for as much time as you are but I know more about it than you, apparently. I have posted my opinion on Fencer's stance on this matter and it is available on the forums for anyone interested. That being said, expressing your opinion and accusing/belittling others without any consideration or thought, are two different things in my opinion. I never said I do not understand your frustration or discontent and you are not the first(or the last) to do so.
My problem is with the way you choose to express these things, as if you know everything about everything and everyone. I do not think I am qualified to judge people's characters and I have no idea if you are arrogant in general but the statements you have made on this particular matter, implicitly accusing Fencer of theft and trying to patronize him on the way he should run the site publicly, as if you have the skills to build and maintain the site as a programmer, analyst, administrator, owner and manager(yes, he fills all these roles), really disturbed me.

Let us all stop fighting. Happy New Year to all.

Aganju:
McDonalds is an interesting analagy. In order to maintain its customer base it has changed and altered its product offering.
You can get salads and smoothies and all manner of healthy things that they did not offer in the past. They offer internet and even computers at some stores.They could have stayed with their original offering, pumped up the advertising but i expect they would lose market share to others who adapted to a changing market. Brainking has the same option change or stand still. Standing still will inevitably result in a loss of market share over time but it can live off its name for a number of years and probably be more profiable In the short term.
But i agree with you, whether burgers or boardgames the ultimate measure is can i get more for my bucks elsewhere? Or perhaps even if i like the burger i just get fed up with the same old same old and want something different even if it is no better.

ThunderGr: You see me as arrogant. I just want to get the most for my entertainment dollars. Look at it as a fan to sports team. If you support a team but they constantly lose and are not dedicated to getting better, are you going to spend your money to buy tickets, pay for parking, concessions and merchandise to support the team? You may stay home and watch the games on TV but that doesnt cost you anything and the team doesnt benefit from it except for the TV contract deal they have. Fencer has said he is not enthusiastic about this anymore. That is fine. I am just not enthusiastic about supporting a site financially that does not want to be better. So I will continue to play for free and forego the other extras. Happy New year to you too.

Aganju: Your McDonalds analogy is fair and that is why McDonalds does not get any of my money. LOL.

If you read my reply to Playbunny, I reason why I was a paying member for so long and why I have made the decision to stop after my current membership ends. I have nothing personal against Fencer. However, I as a consumer of anything, do not give my money to any business that does not do right by its employees or its customers. Maybe I expect more than the status quo. That is my right as it has been expressed. I just feel that management should be as dedicated to me as a customer as I am to them as the business owner. Happy New Year.

playBunny: Thank you Playbunny for your comments. I have sent communication to my second in command to take over my fellowship if she so desires. I do have lots of matches right now as I have had a bunch of new tournaments begin. I normally keep around 300 matches.

As far as a protest thing, it is not form of protest. I was a pawn a long time before I begin paying for membership as I believed in the continued growth in Brainking and because management was dedicated to us as players. However based on Fencer's own words he is not enthusiastic or as dedicated to it anymore. So perhaps I was a bit too harsh in my reply, but it makes me upset when I have supported this site for years with my money and in the last couple of years nothing really new has happened here. Many will continue to be a paid member and support the site as is. That is fine for those people. I have a fixed income and a small amount of dollars to earmark for entertainment. Around $3 a month is not much, but when you have to pay for 6 or 12 months in advance, that is chunk of change that I cannot afford to out of my budget one month. I will more than likely play here daily as a pawn and will keep all my games going as smoothly as possible to prevent them from dragging on for weeks and months but I cannot support a site that is not dedicated to its consumers.

Brian1971: Damn man! Go and make a site from scratch equivalent to the one Fencer has made and then start making those statements. It pisses me off that people can be so arrogant without ever trying to be in the shoes of those they accuse.
Just like crosseyed, who arrogantly thinks she is qualified to judge other people's character over the forums "without starting an argument", you are way out of line here. For people like you two, there is absolutely absolutely no use for Fencer(or anyone else for that matter) to reply and state his mind, in my opinion. You only care to impose your views, not to understand the actual state of affairs.(In comparison, I am arguing over statements.I do not insult people over their character. Although I am certain that it is useless to point out the difference, since those not already interested in noticing, will ignore it anyway :P)

Happy New Year to everyone! I wish your choices lead you to happiness

Brian1971: Brian, you have over 600 matches. Fencer doesn't delete matches when a game hoarder's membership runs out so you'll continue to feast for as long as you can string the matches out but you won't be able to add to the pile until you purchase a new membership.

You'll also be out of all fellowships, so do pass the Pub's Big Boss title to someone who can keep your fellowship alive. You're quite well ranked in various game types which suggests that you might take an interest in your prowess. If you enjoy the rating graphs as much as I do then you'll miss them, at least for a while.

Your decision to experience being a Pawn as a form of protest will not come without a cost. You're not handing merely handing a cheque over to Fencer every year, you're purchasing a level of service that you couldn't otherwise enjoy.

Brian1971:
If you do not respect your customers they will not respect you with their money and will tell others ...
Who says I do not respect customers? I keep the site up and running and everybody gets exactly who pays for. I don't remember that the Paid Membership page would ever contain anything about a guaranteed implementation of all suggestions. If somebody does not feel respected only because his idea of respecting customers is different, well, it's not my fault. Sorry.

perhaps you should sellout or hand the responsibilities over to someone who would enthusiastically make the site all it can be
Great idea, I could not agree more. Do you know someone who would take over and meant it seriously this time? It would be quite a change to negotiate with a normal and communicative person who is interested in purchasing the site.

Fencer is just collecting the money taken in and not willing to do what he can to please his customers
BrainKing is my site and I do everything related to it. Nobody is obliged to pay for anything. Whatever I collect, it is only my business what I do with that. If it is bad for business, it is only my problem. Period.

he doesn't need my paying membership to be profitable, I will not be renewing my membership
Everybody has this right. No hard feelings.

Brian1971: I have a different perspective. I pay for what I get, and if its worth what I paid, I am fine with it.

Here some thought: if you go to McDonalds (or wherever you eat), you pay x$ for a burger, and the next time you pay the same again for the same burger. if the burgers are worth the x$ (for you), you come back and keep doing it. The same applies here. You pay 3$ a month for playing games, and the next month you pay 3$ again for playing the same games - if it is worth it for you.

Where does the idea come in that it *has to* continuously change and improve? (McDonald *does* continually decrease the size of their burgers, and increase their prices, but that's probably not the kind of change you are looking for). It is certainly a valid request, but understand that there is no such automatic obligation. It's offer and demand, and if you think the status quo is not worth 3$/month, that is your decision. Sorry to lose you as a player, though.

Fencer: WOW! I guess this answers a lot of questions and concerns. As I first read this response it comes across as honest and yet sort of pompous.

First without the paying members the site would not sustain itself so dismissing our thoughts, suggestions, and concerns is not a good business model. If you do not respect your customers they will not respect you with their money and will tell others about the bad attitude of management which in turn means a dry up of potential new customers.

Second, if as the owner, you are not as enthusiastic about the games anymore and do not wish to make the business a priority then perhaps you should sellout or hand the responsibilities over to someone who would enthusiastically make the site all it can be.

Thirdly, Fencer is just collecting the money taken in and not willing to do what he can to please his customers. In any other business he would lose them and have to shut the doors. All businesses have to evolve and try to do better to attract new customers and yet hold on to the ones they already have.

Fourth and lastly, my membership runs through February 11th. As of this time, do to the fact in Fencer's own words, he doesn't need my paying membership to be profitable, I will not be renewing my membership. I have been here since close to the beginning, so doing this is not made in haste. I just wish to be valued as a customer and not made to be feel like someone who just giving the ownership a check they can cash each year.

Have a happy new year folks. I will be interested in what others have to say about Fencer's response to us.

beach: Happy New Year to you too.

Fencer:  Happy New Year!

Hi guys,

My original intention was to post quite a comprehensive response to most of the questions, which could, hopefully, be helpful to at least some people. However, I didn't feel well during past days, so this is just a short summary:

As it was correctly mentioned there, BrainKing is no longer my top interest. Many things changed in my life since 2002 and I had to adapt to certain aspects that are not directly related to the site but still affect my free time. Furthermore, after 13 years, I am not as enthusiastic about board games as I used to be. But nobody needs to worry about turning off or deleting the site, unless some kind of really bad disaster happens, which is very unlikely in this part of the world. Membership fees are just a small portion of the income that BrainKing generates, so even if those who never stop complaining would finally decide to stop supporting us, the site would still remain profitable.

More info later. And Happy New Year.

Aganju: Sorry I was agreeing with you I just added to much to my statement.

Marshmud: ok, but why did you address that to me? I said the same thing, and I perfectly understand why he doesn't chime in. And I agree that we 'need' very little change.

Aganju: He has told us clearly what his priorities are. The same people complain. I suggest if you feel your not getting your moneys worth stop paying and play elsewhere where the owner is involved as one thinks he/she should or buy the site for 50g usd and fix it. You can find good programmers for 40usd a hour. That will eat up that 30euro membership pretty quickly.

IMO we dont need new games and new features as much as we need what we have fixed.

ThunderGr:

Nuke 'em !!

Bernice: I think he doesn't answer because this discussion comes up about every six month, with the same arguments and points each time, and after the hundredth time there is really nothing to add from his side. Or maybe he is just enjoying Christmas with his family.

Bernice: "Do not use a cannon to kill a mosquito" ;)

Brian1971: tick, tick, tick, tick, tick.

Justaminute: I guess none of us knows the cost of maintaining the site and how much is leftover as a profit for Fencer. I guess he would have to weigh in on our discussions. However, sadly he is silent up to this point. That just goes back to one of my original points if I were to continue to support the site, I would wish the owner of the site to be committed to me as a consumer to keep the site evolving and growing. without the consumers there is no game site. We have discussed how to afford this site, but it comes down to one thing, what does the top dog think and is he willing to make the site a high priority. I guess we wait for his response.

Bwild:
even if it was 300 members that is an annual revenue of Euro 7000. Hardly cashing it in particularly for someone capable of creating a site as complex as brainking.

Bwild: the 100 or so black rooks are included in the 300 total so not really.

Bwild: agreed....no argument there :)

Times 300 + paying rooks
Makes me think maintenance is fairly covered
Then add 100 plus lifetime members and the various bishops and Knights
Now I appreciate playing games and the comradery but it really seem the one who should be most grateful is the guy cashing the checks
Jmo

Merry Christmas everyone!

Dice Cheater: Merry Christmas to you and yours, DC

Dice Cheater: Happy Christmas to you thank you.

Season's greetings!

Would it help if you Message Fencer?

Mélusine: I don't think Brian was being "arrogant" either. I would think all of us who have been around this site since around the beginning, miss the days when Fencer was so involved constantly. Yes, things change. I (and I'm sure most) accept that. Priorities change. Life changes.
I guess in my "hope of hopes" it would be for a bit more attention to be made? In Fencer's defense, he HAS responded to some things that needed to be taken care of recently.
It seems like there may be a bunch of old bug reports that have long gone unfixed? I can't think of any personally. At least none that have affected me.
But little things too. Like the BKR graphs. They would look better if those graph lines were continued. (They stopped a couple years ago). Again, it's very unimportant in the big scheme of things, but I guess it would be nice if such things were kept up.

This is NOT meant to be any sort of complaint. I love this site and am here every day, multiple times every day. And have been for over 12 years.
I'm just saying I understand why some of us "miss the old days". And yes, it would be SO cool to occasionally get a new game. (Quarto is a new favorite of mine from another site)

Of course my MAIN hope is that Brainking sticks around for a lot longer.
Oh, and I too would love if there was a Christmas deal! I still need a few "colors" (from the sales) to complete that Achievement to get a Black Rook.

I'm ok with Brian, I'd like to see this site evolving a little. Speaking about how much it could cost, I must admit I don't know.
I think by saying this I'm not arrogant with Fencer, I just say what I'd like and if Fencer reads these words, he has an idea what people want.
It's also true that without ads, it's more easy to play, we aren't disturbed. And also, who would agree to see the subscription increasing ? It's an interesting debat.
About the price, we have, in France, other interesting sites with a suscription less expensive I'm here more for the friends than for the games.

♥♫βaβyĢіґŁŁє♫♥: Nope, just been really busy with work lol

Aganju: Of course some places I have been on, non-paying users see ads and an incentive not see ads is to become a paying member. That could work here as well. However advertisers want to see that there is enough traffic each day to make it worth advertising on a site.

Brian1971 (and all): don't forget that many gaming pages spam you with advertisements right and left. There are no ads here.

For some people, it doesn't matter too much or not at all if part of the screen contains an ad every click, for others it is quite annoying.

A site that makes money from ads can afford to be free and still invest into improvements. An ad-free site needs to earn the money to pay for the upkeep before there is any extra left. It is everybody's personal choice, conscious or unconscious, which one he prefers and where he takes his money (or his clicks).

Bernice: Hello Bernice I am doing good thanks and hope you are to.

crosseyed: How ya going Hun :) long time no see.

Brian1971: Well put Brian.

Wow I didnt think my comments and views would cause such a commotion. I do not post normally as I am too busy playing my games and find in most cases when people express themselves they are verbally abused for it. I never said that I was ungrateful or unthankful. I did say I spend a lot of time here and do enjoy playing here. However as a consumer I do have a right to let the ownership know how I feel as well. The internet games sites are numerous. Some better than others. This is definitely one of the better ones. However the best ones do upgrade and do things to improve the experience to bring in new members and encourage more paying users to meet expenses and turn a profit. I have seen this site sadly become stagnant and seen players I used to play all the time leave the site altogether. If this happens you will have fewer players and less paying members to sustain the site anyway. I DO NOT WANT TO SEE THAT HAPPEN. I do love playing here. However I notice for example that ponds are getting fewer and harder to fill up than ever. I see by running a fellowship it is harder to get players to fill teams for tournaments. My position is not one of arrogance, it is one of concern for a site I have been addicted to for many, many years. However financially it is only best to see if it is worth the continued support of the site through membership or if I should consider other options. I am dedicated to the site, I just wish to know ownership is just as dedicated to the expansion of the site. I know Fencer is one person and has other priorities. I would like to know that Brainking is near the top as we are paying for the privilege of playing here.

Oh yeah last thing, MERRY CHRISTMAS, HAPPY HANUKKAH, ETC. Hopefully that is still ok to say here without being verbally beat up.

ThunderGr: You're alright mate, I can totally see your point of view. Kudos for starting a little Christmas cheer and action on the forum :) ☝

Bernice:

ThunderGr: Without wanting to start an argument you come over as being very arrogant.

crosseyed: I said what I wanted to say. If you think it is arrogant for some reason(although I have no idea how that could be, since it is not my site or my work), you are certainly free to do so. No need to blame the translation as an excuse for what you deem improper or whatever.

I will never stop being amazed of how people treat the one that exposes arrogance as arrogant. However, I can say I am pretty much used to it by now. You cannot beat people's choice for preferences over truth, anyway.

ThunderGr: I am sure most of what is posted in the discussion boards goes over Fencer's head so to speak. There was a time when I was very dissatisfied with this site when there were many times I could not play my games. I think Fencer was not happy with some of my comments back then. For quite some time now this site had been stable and I enjoy playing in this site.

crosseyed: I ditto you 100%.

beach: I agree with you 100% beach.