But seriously... I was soundly defeated by JB, both times. I'd be most interested to conduct a post-mortem.

Would any observers care to offer insight? Are there any particular moves I made which sealed my fate? What would you have done differently?

John Baker: Those are very interesting games, especially your perfect endgame from about 38th move! It is very rare to see such a perfection (from a human player...), and two times in a row, WOW!!!

shmoula: That's funny... It's my understanding that the endgame is the easiest part of a game to play to perfection. In the endgame, the consequences of one's moves are much easier to determine than in the middle of the game. Given 10-20 empty squares left in a game, I think most players would be able to figure out how to most efficiently play it out. It would be hard, at this point, to make a mistake. If you are among those who would screw up an endgame after the game is already in your control, then you could probably gain something from asking questions, as a student would ask a teacher, rather than insinuating the ridiculous. If this is not the case, then redeem yourself by contribuing something of value to this discussion.
Just in case your motive was not to imply that I might be using a program to achieve my results, I apologize for my reaction and submit to you that such perfection in an endgame is not a rare thing.
I'd be happy to continue this discussion with you if you so wish.
John Baker

John Baker: I am not trying to imply that you might be using a program. I am saying that you are using a program. I am an experienced Othello player and I know something about this game. I don't usually boast, but I will make an exception for you. I have played more than 16000 games, I won Czech championship once, I have been to 3 world championships (and I ended up 12th last year) and I have analysed many games of world's best players like Hideshi Tamenori (6 times world champion), Ben Seeley (2 times world champion), Suekuni Makoto and others. These top players sometimes do play a perfect endgame, but generally it is rare. If you are so good, you should have no difficulty qualifying for the 2006 world championship in Japan. I will be glad to see you there and apologise for my accusation.

And yes, I have already screwed up a lot of games that were in my control. That's just what being a human means - making mistakes. Also making a mistake in the endgame doesn't necessarily mean to lose the game. You can be winning 44-20 and end up winning 34-30. That's normal and common.

I have met a lot of cheaters, a few of them even here on BK (as I am sure you know, you are not the only one here). I am not always completely sure if someone cheats or not. And it is not my habit to accuse him if I am not sure. But sometimes it is so clear that I can't resist. Especially if he is so cheeky to start a thread about strategies, trying to teach others. Cheaters are a big problem in Reversi on this server, that's why I didn't extend my membership and I am just finishing my games and not starting any new ones. I prefer real-time servers with a cheating detector. Would you believe that one cheater from BK agreed to play with me on such a server? He would switch to another program before his each move and was cheeky enough to say that it was his firewall :o) Funny.

shmoula: you are all right. I am with you in everything what you say. Actors do not make lack great... the one that says lies is taken. Please don't play here John!

sarok: Thank you for your support, sarok :o)

shmoula: I do not feel a need to defend myself against your accusations. Such accusations are frowned upon on this website, and these posts will be brought to the attention of the proper administrator. I will continue to play here and I wish everyone good luck in all their games.
Have fun!
John Baker

I would really like it if folks got off the present topic. If you think someone is cheating then the best thing to do is stop playing them. I know that sounds really lame but at a turn based site it is hard to tell if a person is cheating unless they admit it. I played a few people on here that were using Zebra and once I found that out I stopped playing them. There is a player or two who will admit to using programs in reversi.
Or try playing 10x10 with someone. As far as I know Zebra cant be used on 10x10 board. (If I am wrong let me know)
If there are further posts on cheating I have to delete them and ask that you take them to private messages.

Thanks everyone

Rose: You have all the reason. Not only exist WZebra for analising the games, are many other programs. But what one treats here it is the comic analysis of games of reversi 8x8. Any players here have experience in play reversi, and know analysis the games only seeing as a game is developed. This site is good! Respect for the players who we did not use programs!
Thus playing only there is one is lain to itself.

Rose: OK, I apologize. I will respect you as a moderator of this board. I promise this will be my last post on this topic, but I still have something to say.

First, cheating is a problem and IMHO problems should be discussed, not disregarded. And where to discuss cheating in Reversi, if not on a board about Reversi, especially if there is no board about cheating?

Second, 10x10 is a good method. Although there is a program that can play 10x10 very well (and it is almost unbeatable at 6x6), not many cheaters know about it (unfortunately some do). I still prefer Anti reversi because I don't know any reasonably good program and I have noticed cheaters don't play it.

Third, I agree it is hard to tell if someone is a cheater, but not impossible, especially if the cheater is not very careful. I really never accuse anyone unless I am completely sure. I beg you to compare these two games: http://brainking.com/cz/ArchivedGame?g=956421 (note moves g5 and h3, which are particularly tricky) and http://brainking.com/cz/ArchivedGame?g=946267 (note moves c8, d8 and even j9! and i1!, which are particularly bad). When someone (repeatedly) plays an 8x8 game with almost perfect midgame and perfect endgame, something begins to smell. And if his 10x10 game from the same period looks like beginner's, something is definitely wrong. The analysis of a few of his other 8x8 games, either from that period or recent, clearly shows that the perfect play of the mentioned 8x8 game wasn't accidental and unique.

Sorry Rose, but I had to. I never told anyone about any of the cheaters I met here, not even publicly. What made me do it this time was JB's "teaching".

shmoula: Thanks for your reply. I understand about wanting to discuss reversi cheating on the reversi board but the higher ups (Fencer) Has made it clear that he does not like pointing fingers in public or naming cheaters or suspected cheaters as it most often leads to arguements that turn pretty nasty. I don't know of any great way to handle all this so I have asked Sarok if he would help moderate this board since he is very proficient in the game as well as a very trusted player. I asked the global moderators before hand if we could ask him to help mod and they were all for it. He has agreed to help out since this really is HIS game. Volant and I play but I know I will never be more than a novice player at best.

shmoula: I thank you for excuses. And also the examples. We do not have a system of control of the use of programs. But that are experts players. To make these activities is not a great favor for which they are beginning in the game.

You are a great player, I know it and I know him personally.

It would appreciate that the discussion was not centered in the persone. If John has something to say he can do it. Whenever it follows with a moderate tone. In opposite case we could transfer the discussion to chat private or by messages?

Random Reversi

Single Elimination for 16 players. 1 day moves, NO DAYS OFF!

stronzetti ma come devo fare per iniziare a giocare???

pirlotto: you can create a new game or enter in a waiting game... and follow the steps...

http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=1741049
Ya, ya I'm showing off, but it is so pretty!

Rose: is a black power!!

sarok: A fluke I am sure but I thought it was kool! Besides someone needed to speak on this board

Rose: well done! i tried it a few times as well .. but never succeeded .. either i missed one of my opponents pieces .. or the board didnt fill up completely

Hrqls: HAHA! Off your knees minion!
Very cute!

that's something amazing Rose Congratulations 

volant: Thanks hun, more a fluke than anything tho I am sure!

[clears throat]

http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=956431

http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=1159134

John Baker: not even in a 10x10 ? ;)

Hrqls: only this not all complete...

http://brainking.com/es/ArchivedGame?g=1498711

sarok: Woohoo! impressive!

normally warning to the opponent of which it can that leaves to zero so that it can leave the game, nongame the humiliation. In the championship of the 2005 world, in Reykjavik, I left to a player zero table 31 Oscar Martínez:
http://www.worldothellochampionships.com/2005/Lazard/class__7.txt

I don't have a complete 100-0 10x10 game either, only this 99-0: http://brainking.com/cz/ArchivedGame?g=591216&i=108 and a number of something-0 games. But I do have a few full 6x6 and 8x8 wipeouts.

shmoula: nice thomas!

shmoula: nice!

another nice one would be a game with as few as possible pieces on the board, but all in 1 color already and the game being finished :)

Hrqls: Well, this has already been solved, there are many variations of wipeouts in move #9 and it is not possible to do it earlier.
Look at this: http://samsoft.org.uk/reversi/. Click on the 'Wipeouts' item in the top left. I actually lost to '9 move wipeout perpendicular #1' once (that doesn't count, I was a beginner), but, and I am still ashamed of it, I also once lost to '19 move wipeout #1'. And that was after several thousad games :o(

shmoula: lol :) *comfort* :)
i couldnt find out how to get to the wipeout on that site .. i selected it in the list, but how do i see the game ?
(the play button underneath the board didnt do much :))

i didnt try long though as i am at work ;)

Hrqls: After you select 'Wipeouts' in the first boc, you must click on one of the particular games in the second box. 'Openings', 'Tricks & Traps', 'Wipeouts' etc. are only categories, and each category has many games.

i just got back from my holiday so i havent had time yet to look at the teams for the current team tournaments .. are there any (strong) teams which could use 1 more player ? :)

I have a tournament open for 10x10 if any players are interested. I could use a couple of more players. Go to the tournaments to sign up.

Looking for an opponent to play 8x8 with... I used to be quite good (rednaz23 @ IYT - I went 143-16) but am looking for opponents to start again... Please help! I am signed up on a team for that team tourney, and need a couple games to get non-rusty, which I probably am... Thanks in advance!

Phil

You are cordially invited to join the new tournament of the fellowship "Oriental games" opened to all.
The supported games are:
Chess, Chinese Chess, Japanese Chess, Loop chess, Ambiguous Chess, Reversi 8x8, Go, Go 9x9 and Go 13x13.
You can be registered to the adress:
Oriental Games (15. Septembre 2006, 06:56:47)

http://woc2006.othello.org/


this is the crosstable of the final round in the world othello championships.

I posted a new game of Anti Reversi. 2 days per move, Fixed weekend....

If you have different settings that you want to play the invite me.

Hello,

Some know me already.
I my site dedicated to Reversi. http://internationalreversi.dynalias.net
Do you know to promote sites on Reversi where I can refer it ?
And can you state to me that it and which would like to find on my site to like you the players miss ?

Thank you for your remarks.

Wow... Are the translation capabilities of this site failing or is it just a case of really bad English?

John Baker: This site doesnt have translaton capabilities and I dont think it's very polite to put someone down for their lack of English. Can you speak fluently in other languages other than English?

Magnum: Your site is very impressive!

My is English so bad ?
Sorry :-(
I go to work my english.

Parlez-vous français ?
Pour la traduction j'utilise : altavista translate

John Baker: Is possible you help Magnum22 to translate your site at english perfectly?
This is the help we need the othello and reversi players.

Thank you for your assistance

Magnum22: thank you for sharing your great reversi site with us :)

sarok: Yeah, I suppose I could. Glad to help any way I can. :-)

volant: Thank you for your message :-)

One for the Reversi players:

MadMonkeys 'Go & Reversi' Muddle (1)