Artful Dodger: Considering that the likes of Bill O'Reilly and Glen Beck are by some thought of as reliable commentators on current political events.. it is a point. That they do make mistakes.. and seemingly lie on certain matters just to make their point 'bigger' does put doubt into any reasonable mind on the validity of their political bantering and the message they are fronting.

As to your contention that Obama is a pathological liar.. just because he says 'X' yet.. through having to put things through Congress and the Senate what he says becomes 'XY' is pretty normal in terms of how things work in the world of politics. It does not make him a liar, it makes him someone that has to get policies through both houses which are greatly affected by the lobbying system.

Artful Dodger: I watch Fox News, and my appraisal is that anyone right of mind can see they are in the tank for the right, and MSNBC is even more in the tank for the left,both channels make my head explode, though I'm not sure if NBC has actually donated a million bucks to the DNC, like Fox donated to the RNC

Bernice: Clearly a case of Wag the Dog.

If you have a chance, watch the film of the same title, it is hilarious. Here is a link providing a good decription and represenation to real events.
http://www.philipcoppens.com/wagthedog.html


On the same theme:

There were less than 10 Congressmen / Senators that claim to have read the full Frank Dodd bill.

Its creation is the FSOC. The Fed Advisory Committee Act does not apply to this council.

Six corporations collectively control and dominate news and entertainment.

BTW, did you know that the US's biggest export today is waste paper.

We are at the quiet before the storm.

Artful Dodger:

"No....not true. More people trust Fox than don't. Get your facts straight."

Source? If 25% of people regularly watch Fox News, do you know what the other 75% think of it?

"You'd have to be more specific on what it is you can't stomach. If you answer with a general response, that will be on the same level as some of the other rants I hear against O'Reilly. I couldn't care less if you like him or hate him. But if you're going to have an opinion about him, make it a knowledgeable one."

He's annoying and I disagree with his opinions most of the time. I'm not going to spend my time torturing myself. Why didn't you also ask me why I said I can't stomach Olbermann?

I was searching YouTube for clips to support the example I gave of O'Reilly lying by saying no one on Fox News has ever said that you'd go to jail if you didn't buy health insurance. This video has a bunch of clips in one so you can just watch this instead of a bunch of separate clips. Ignore the fact that the presenter is a liberal (though formerly conservative) guy, as that's not the point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKH5rLVhxK4&feature=fvw


As for the 6 examples you'd like me to give, search YouTube for "O'Reilly lies" and you'll find a ton. I never gave you my opinion on Obama, so you telling me that Obama lies is beside the point.

I'm getting annoyed that you keep telling me exactly how I am supposed to give you my arguments (don't post video clips, no actually do post video clips, give me at least 6 examples). As I've come to BK to have fun, not be annoyed, this will be my last post on this topic.

SL-Mark: love the dogtail bit LOL....my dogs tail doesn't wag, if he gets excited it goes round and round, how he does it I dont know ROFL....

Bernice:

Well I did try to find ITYAR. The best I could do is find ITAR, and you slipped in a Y where an 'in' would be.
But ITAR is on the wrong track, Blackhawk Ben and Volker-Hellfire missiles are considerably more dangerous than anything the US military can throw.

I didn't think I was being too cryptic, but let me give you a few more pointers.

Blackhawk Ben is the nick (au courant circles) for Ben Shalom Bernanke, Current Chairman Federal Reserve, Chairman Council of Economic Advisers under G.W.Bush

Volcker = Paul Adolph Volcker, senior economic adviser to Obama, Chairman Federal Reserve under Regan and Carter.

The other characters, all of whom have missiles being pointed at them from the shores of the USA:
PBC - the main adversary
BOJ, ECB - Other main players
SNB - A player from a neutral country
RBA - Just for you, they are also a player, but a smaller one

Now a cryptic clue:
"Why does a dog wag its tail? Because the dog is smarter than the tail. If the tail was smarter, it would wag the dog."

SL-Mark: ROFL....that is why I posted that ...

ITYAR = not telling, If it hasnt been discovered yet let people wonder as I did about your post ROFLMBO

Artful Dodger: Mmm it seems POTUS can be used both ways.
http://www.potus.com/


And again, you don't get to dictate here. People wanted to talk about Bill O'Reilly being wrong. You said you would like to see/talk about it.

But.. you have no answer. Some would consider that an answer in itself.

Artful Dodger: You choose Right wing groups to find clips on Obama, as like Trekkers... they follow every line and word, comparing speech Obama1.3.6 part 2 subsection c to Obama speech 4.2.5 appendix iii

No rules here on where we pick info from.. Free speech rules apply.

Artful Dodger: So... It can be said that Bill O'Reilly..

"Bill O'Reilly makes up whatever he wants to in his head and presents it as truth, all the while using the argument that he must be right because Fox News has higher ratings than MSNBC"

AS Previously stated here by lizrising

You replied... "I would LOVE to see you back that nonsense up with a solid argument."..

One question though.. doesn't Fox or Bill have researchers to check things? If he can.. as you say.. 'get things wrong'... how much more of his broadcasts are suspect and full of incorrect "news analysis"???

therefore.. The Bill O'Reilly factor as a news analysis prog on a news channel, along with Beck.. who seems to confuse regulation on Slave transportation with people having to pay to enter into the USA... Can get things wrong and present a false account of past and current issues.

"ANY conversation would be the POTUS and his honesty/dishonesty record."

You don't get to dictate here. It's called free speech ... and I thought POTUS referred to Presidents not a President!!

Artful Dodger: It's a simple question... it operates under the presumption we are all human (that we know of) on this world.

Bill O'Reilly stated that USA servicemen killed 84 surrendering ss troops at Malmédy. Basically saying these USA servicemen commited a war crime.

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200606030002
In fact. History records that ss troops murdered USA toops at Malmédy during WWII.

Since the evidence in history (bodies/dog tags) is clear, then Bill O'Reilly messed up.

Knowing your Hero so well, you could at least make an effort to talk and explain what he was doing.

"YOU need to make your case with your OWN argument backing up your exact claim. Don't deviate."

... It is backed up by historical records. That O'Reilly said otherwise is recorded.
........No deviation, straight argument backed up by recorded evidence.

Now... don't deviate yourself as you keep on doing.

Let's make it easy...

http://mediamatters.org/research/200410250009

From the October 21 broadcast of the nationally syndicated The Radio Factor with Bill O'Reilly:

O'REILLY: "They said they [9-11 widow Kristen Breitweiser, featured in the ad, and her late husband] voted for Bush [in 2000], but Bush opposed the 9-11 Commission -- which he didn't, by the way. He didn't oppose it. I mean, he had questions about it because he didn't want it politicized."

------------------

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/15/attack/main509096.shtml
(CBS) President Bush took a few minutes during his trip to Europe Thursday to voice his opposition to establishing a special commission to probe how the government dealt with terror warnings before Sept. 11.

Mr. Bush said the matter should be dealt with by congressional intelligence committees.

CBS News Correspondent Bill Plante reports that Mr. Bush said the investigation should be confined to Congress because it deals with sensitive information that could reveal sources and methods of intelligence. Therefore, he said, the congressional investigation is "the best place" to probe the events leading up to the terrorist attacks.

"I have great confidence in our FBI and CIA," the President said in Berlin, adding that he feels the agencies are already improving their information sharing practices.

**********************
**********************

Now.. If I read this right (dot a dold) O'Reilly said Bush did not oppose the 9/11 commission..... The news report states he did through comments made by Bush himself.

So.. Did CBS get it wrong, did Bill get it wrong?
N' if Bill got it wrong.. does it just prove he's human.. not a God?
Was he lying or just bull..ing himself through the broadcast??

Bernice: ITYAR?
That's even more cryptic than my post :)

Artful Dodger: You did not say that in your post, but I now understand your intention.

The Col: Beck sounds like Rimmer from Red Dwarf and his Space corps directives.

Artful Dodger: Dobbs became part of the discussion when you posted a Dobbs video.

A video of Bill making things up as he goes, ranting on about "liberals this.. liberals that"..

Ratings.. bahhhh

If you get caught on camera people fess generally.. admissible in court

.. no.. going "liberals this... liberals that" is not an argument..

Artful Dodger: I love it how I've said very little in this forum, you don't know anything about me, yet you're making an awful lot of presumptions. I find it sad that politics for some is a game of "let's prove the other guy wrong so I can feel superior" (see your gloating "I win!" comment) instead of rational conversations and debates. I don't feel threatened by people disagreeing with me, but I get annoyed at people who will do anything to "prove" they're right and I'm wrong and get a thrill out of it. That goes for people of all political viewpoints.

"Since it's apparent you don't really understand the structure of The Factor, you probably shouldn't be making comments about that show. It's evident that you don't really know what you are claiming. I doubt you watch the show much."

You're right. I don't watch it much, unless I'm in a great mood and feeling the urge for a good laugh at inanity. I usually can't stomach it, and I have conservative friends who feel the same way. I also can't stomach Olbermann, and have liberal friends who feel the same way. I wasn't commenting on the structure of a tv show. I was commenting on lies that come out of the mouth of the person who happens to be the host.

"I also see you failed to address how the women on the view tried to cut O'Reilly off before he finished speaking."

I did say that I can't stand when they don't want to let others talk, and that inviting someone like that (meaning someone that they're obviously going to have disagreements with) is just asking for trouble. I guess I didn't use your exact words, but the intent was there. O'Reilly has a habit of not letting people talk as well. *shrug* I think The View is a mess of a show, which is sad because I do like most of the hosts outside of that environment.

"If you simply post a You Tube vid as Jules just did, you ARE NOT making an argument for anything."

Like the video you just posted?

But, but...I was going to post videos of O'Reilly himself opening his mouth, with lies coming out of it. How better to make an argument that O'Reilly lies than to post actual video of O'Reilly lying?

As I see it, the major way that O'Reilly lies is by trying to rewrite the past. Off the top of my head I can think of this one: Glenn Beck has continuously said on Fox News that you're going to get arrested if you don't have health insurance. He and O'Reilly sat down together and talked on Fox News about how you're going to get arrested if you don't have health insurance. On a later date, O'Reilly vehemently denied that anyone on Fox News had ever said that you were going to get arrested if you didn't have health insurance. My argument here is not about health insurance, but that he told a lie that can be so easily proven wrong.

"It isn't because they are "right" (as in correct) but because they are honest in their reporting of the news."

LOL. If all you want to hear about is how wealthy white Christian guys are being victimized, I guess there's your channel.

"Numbers matter. That's because numbers show what people trust."

See my earlier comment about argumentum ad populum.

"And Fox has a L-O-N-G history of being trusted by the viewers."

And distrusted by as many.

"Psssst! Goldberg and Behar acted in typical liberal fashion. My way or no way."

It's really counterproductive to make sweeping generalizations of a whole group of people. Personally, I've encountered more neocons with the "my way or no way" attitude than anyone else. A lot of liberals act like that. A lot of conservatives act like that. It's funny, because most times someone tells me how ALL liberals act, I think, "oh crap, does that mean I'm not a liberal!?"

Artful Dodger: You don't know, because you know Dobbs was fired, and is now bitter.

Artful Dodger: How are Dobbs tv ratings these days?

Artful Dodger: Dobbs was fired..........Olbermann wins

(V): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JendTWYIg4I&feature=related

Forget the fact that this is a business article, it has far wider appeal and meaning.

http://jeffwalker.com/injecting-poison-in-your-brain/

I take comfort in not having a television. What do you get out of it? Or rather, what are you being injected with?

FOX NEWS RULES. GOTTA LOVE O'REILLY AND BECK. IF YOU WANT TO WIN AN ELECTION APPEAR ON FOX. WANT TO LOSE THE ELECTION GO ON CNN. MSNBC?? THEY ARE STILL ON THE AIR??LOL

SL-Mark: ITYAR...definately

I fear we are on the edge of DEFCON1 if the US continues to export its deflation to the rest of the world.

During the G8 summit, a resolution could not be found, so no stand down to DEFCON3.

If Blackhawk Ben does fire those Volker-Hellfire missiles, expect retaliation from PBC, BOJ, ECB and even from traditionally neutral countries, SNB, who will more than match the wrath delivered from Ben's Blackhawk.

The fallout will be felt by generations to come, not just in the US, but worldwide.

Artful Dodger: Would you like proof of O'Reilly telling lies or O'Reilly saying he's right/most people agree with him because his ratings are higher than MSNBC's? I can provide you with video clips of both, though I will need to wait until I can get to a computer (I'm using my phone to access the internet at the moment and it's too slow to be useful.)

Artful Dodger: It's systemic of the fact they have been used so much.

Us in the west trained the Taliban.. that's how come they are capable of doing what they have done. We took a bunch of Islamic extremists and trained them up to kill Soviet troops via guerilla warfare.

Iran.. a country previously known as Persia dictated by the Shah... who was repositioned by a USA/British operation(s)..

why???... oil.

Tuesday: My God, that clip was painful! I like Behar and I like Whoopi, but that whole show is about people talking over each other and it drives me crazy. Bill O'Reilly makes up whatever he wants to in his head and presents it as truth, all the while using the argument that he must be right because Fox News has higher ratings than MSNBC. Argumentum ad populum is a bad argument. (Maybe liberals are reading books while cons are watching cable news.) Everyone used to think the earth was flat, too.

Inviting a guy like that onto The View is just asking for trouble. Nothing can be resolved in a group of people where no one will let anyone else speak without inturruption.

"are welcome"

"all views"

Artful Dodger: And the Catholic church is without sin regarding bashing different folks? I think Jesus would have restated his words on "turn the other cheek".

Übergeek 바둑이: But they do talk (at least with the EU) with a lot of monetary aid given to the Palestinian people.

The Col: Simple solution would be to move the borders a bit and let the Palestinians have one land instead of two bits.. I'm not talking about just Israel moving borders, but the neighbouring Arab states as well.

As for the rockets.. no that was not nice.. the human shields.. pointless.

But so were the use of cluster bombs.

Artful Dodger: I didn't think Whooppeeee would be such a big baby (don't know the other baby) but I guess it is OK...The old saying "If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen" I guess neither of these women are cooks/chefs, as they couldnt stand the heat.....but babies they definately are.

Tuesday: I think it was intended to be like when sane countries get up and leave the UN when Ahmadinejad starts spreading his garbage

but it will be streamed here live

http://www.mynews4.com/story.php?id=29617&n=122

Artful Dodger: I state what I believe, others can sort out what the classification is, I couldn't care less